LA Times: Is Disney Paying Its Fair Share In Anaheim

[DLR92]

Yes, instead I can see up-charging, such as an additional fee for Galaxy's Edge.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/26/think-disneyland-is-crowded-now-wait-until-2019-2/

>>No one expects business as usual when the Star Wars and Nintendo lands open. Will Disney block out annual pass holders from visiting Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge for the land’s first months? Or will Disney make access to the land an up-charge from even regular, daily tickets? How much more expensive can a day at Disneyland get?<<

But a true full Third Park, no. The logistics in Anaheim just won't allow it.

Maybe another Disney owned hotel with a water park, similar to Great Wolf, maybe as part of a Toy Story makeover to a parking structure, which would open up about half the property.

Even if everyone on the city council was pro-Disney, there are too many issues. Taking over land using eminent domain. (One of the reasons the city actually built the Mickey and Friends Structure was due to the fact Disney couldn't get the owners to sell to them.) New state regulations (Environmental studies) and costs just won't work.

Besides, Disney now has a destination with Anaheim, and competition will have the same access as they do now. For example, universal Studios Hollywood just added Harry Potter land, and now will open Super Nintendo World as an addition to the main park, and not a separate gate,

LEGOLAND California is looking to remove the separate gate for their water park, adding it to the Main Ride Park. No decision has been made.

But in this age of electronics and computers, I do see Disneyland looking at placing a building north of the current park. (backstage) that could become a virtual reality facility, where you have a hefty surcharge to enter, and could be easily updated/changed to attract repeat visits.

But a true third park in the image of Disneyland or DCA, no, won't happen.

Quite a shame to hear of a possibility of no third park. I wonder if this plot of land would be just more hotels and retail development. extending the E Gene Autry Way and S Clementine St. like the city had envision.

Is Disney looking to build a parking garage behind the M&F parking? or is it the one of the last land of purchase by the Elementary school?

 

[Darkbeer1]

The M&F Structure is landlocked with roads on the East and West side. The North has the new bakery building, and the need for some oversized vehicle parking for the park's equipment and CM's.The South is designed to be oversized parking for guests, and is the only exit for tall vehicles. Also, the Tram Security check has taken some of the property from Pinocchio.

The more likely location for a new structure is south of Magic way, which is where the 4th Hotel is planned. So a parking structure next to it would make sense, but it would be hotel guests and not park guests.

 

[njDizFan]

eh?? The use of the ratio is exactly what keeps it relevant and in context. It's not about the total dollars Disney pays, the metric is about the significance of Disney to the local tax base. Absolute dollars from another city is the irrelevant stat. Anaheim doesn't operate on another city's budget.

It's not about how 'depressed' the rest of Anaheim is, purely about the how large Disney has become relative to it's neighboring businesses.

When people say "disney isn't paying enough"... pointing out how much of "enough" already comes from Disney adds perspective. "enough" is a portion of the total.. and stating how much already comes from Disney is a reference.

But pointing out that Disney pays a large portion of the revenue for Anaheim only states that the overall tax windfall is low. Not to get too much into hyperbole area but if the total tax revenue for the city was deflated to the point where Disney was the only contributor or the rest of the city didn't necessitate a tax burden then they would be paying 100%. It's just a ratio, I think the hard numbers have a bigger amount of relevance. So I don't think you can measure how much they should pay by percentage of total revenue. That number can be skewed higher or lower depending on the surrounding businesses.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Here is an article on the newly approved budget.

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/06/2...017-18-will-add-more-police-and-enhance-parks

>>Enterprise funds make up the largest portion of Anaheim’s overall budget, 43 percent or $732 million, with the money they generate going to offset the expense of their operations or to fund improvements. Enterprise funds are 12 percent lower than the prior year with the winding down of construction of the Anaheim Convention Center expansion.

The budget shows the city’s reliance on a healthy triumvirate of revenue sources – the tax collected on hotel stays, property taxes and sales taxes – that help feeds the entire city.

With 25 million people visiting the area last year and roughly the same expected for the upcoming year, the Big 3, as the staff calls them, are expected to account for 79 percent of the general fund of $312 million. That’s a 4 percent increase from last year’s $299 million in revenue. And $172 million of that is generated out of the city’s resort district.

The revenue from hotel stays is slated to increase 4 percent to $155.5 million. A 5 percent growth is anticipated in sales tax revenue to $83 million and property tax collections are expected to rise 4 percent to $73 million.

Though the spending plan is down 3 percent from the current budget, a $2.9 million surplus is expected by June 2018<<

And the actual budget

http://www.anaheim.net/2540/Budget-Capital-Improvement-Program

 

[Disney Irish]

With regards to any potential 3rd gate, one has to wonder if Disney is playing a long game here. As family businesses around the area move from generation to generation the likelihood of a property being up for sale grows. I'm sure that Disney can see the value of continuing to picking up properties around the Resort District as they become available. We just have to hope they can get enough parcels of land to make a large 3rd gate.

Anyways that's my pipe dream, let's just hope it lines up with Disney's long term plans.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I'm always surprised when people expect that a 3rd Anaheim park might get built in the foreseeable future when its evident that P&R is focused on Asia and WDW in the long term. Of course there are exceptions, but as a rule DLR and DLP have rarely been priorities for that type of growth and expansion. Disneyland is a cash cow, and as long as the company can keep raising DLR admission prices and milking APs to death what incentive is there to jump through the very expensive and cumbersome hurdles required to invest in a dazzling 3rd park that would meet the expectations of the fans?

 

[Darkbeer1]

Of course, anything is possible. But the Hotels are cash cows and they hardly get but up for sale, and if they are, a bidding war starts. To get enough parcels side by side would be extremely hard to do.

And the city is also looking for convention center expansion land.

IMHO, if Disney could find off site parking and a way to move enough people quickly to the park, you might get a third park at Toy Story.

But I don't know of a large enough lot in the area (say 3 miles). Nor a transit system that could handle the morning and evening peak rush times to deliver the guests. But things change, and a new type of transit could be invented.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm always surprised when people expect that a 3rd Anaheim park might get built in the foreseeable future when its evident that P&R is focused on Asia and WDW in the long term. Of course there are exceptions, but as a rule DLR and DLP have rarely been priorities for that type of growth and expansion. Disneyland is a cash cow, and as long as the company can keep raising DLR admission prices and milking APs to death what incentive is there to jump through the very expensive and cumbersome hurdles required to invest in a dazzling 3rd park that would meet the expectations of the fans?

What you see as foreseeable future in terms of time is likely different than someone like me. I'm looking 20-30 years out, not 1-5 years.

Also I'm not locked to the idea that it has to be within the Resort District. If another city in Orange or the greater LA county offered enough land and incentives Disney might be willing to look into it.

 

[Disney Irish]

Of course, anything is possible. But the Hotels are cash cows and they hardly get but up for sale, and if they are, a bidding war starts. To get enough parcels side by side would be extremely hard to do.

And the city is also looking for convention center expansion land.

IMHO, if Disney could find off site parking and a way to move enough people quickly to the park, you might get a third park at Toy Story.

But I don't know of a large enough lot in the area (say 3 miles). Nor a transit system that could handle the morning and evening peak rush times to deliver the guests. But things change, and a new type of transit could be invented.

I wonder if they would be willing to look into using PRT to cover all the parking lots in the long term future. It has a lower cost than a monorail or other peoplemover type of tech.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

What you see as foreseeable future in terms of time is likely different than someone like me. I'm looking 20-30 years out, not 1-5 years.

So basically someone born today would be maybe 25 years old before a 3rd park opened? Well, pretty much anything could happen in that generous time span, including the P&R division or TWDCo being bought by Comcast, Viacom, or Wang Jianlin, but sure I guess it's always fun to speculate.

 

[Disney Irish]

So basically someone born today would be maybe 25 years old before a 3rd park opened? Well, pretty much anything could happen in that generous time span, including the P&R division or TWDCo being bought by Comcast, Viacom, or Wang Jianlin, but sure I guess it's always fun to speculate.

I'm basing my time frame on what Iger said back in 2015, that it wasn't in the foreseeable future. But that Disney wouldn't rule it out forever. In CEO speak, that means its not in our 5-15 year plan, but doesn't mean its not in our 20-30 year plan.

Additionally with Iger confirming he is actually retiring for sure this time in 2019, it'll be up to the next CEO anyways.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I wonder if they would be willing to look into using PRT to cover all the parking lots in the long term future. It has a lower cost than a monorail or other peoplemover type of tech.

Mickey and Friends is about 10,000 vehicles or 40,000 guests. A structure to replace the Toy Story/Katella CM lot would need to be at least 15,000 to 20,000 cars, or up to 80,000 guests. A peak time, say just after the fireworks or park closing, youneed to move say 20,000 guest in one hour, or over 300 people, including strollers and wheelchairs a minute. I know of nothing that can handle that volume. That is like a subway train leaving every minute, and loading would take more time than that.

So that is a very big issue.

 

[The Mur]

Part of the parking problem is that M&F probably doesn't come close to parking for 40,000 visitors now with so many APs rolling in. Lots of cars with 2 or fewer people

 

[Darkbeer1]

Part of the parking problem is that M&F probably doesn't come close to parking for 40,000 visitors now with so many APs rolling in. Lots of cars with 2 or fewer people

The numbers I used are the "worst case" ones. For example, the Eastern Gateway bridge is designed for 15,000 per hour. In the future, carpools are expected to be 3 or more, not 2. And in peak summer, not many AP holders show up.

You have to plan for the max.

 

[Darkbeer1]

The first one being built is the former Anabella, which is mostly torn down now, to become a Westin. Its primary focus is the business traveler and the Convention Center next door. Many support facilities including meeting rooms and catering are primary features for the new property. Now, will the turn down the Disneyland visitor? Of course not, but the profit is the high rates the can charge the convention customer. This benefits the city, who owns and operates the Convention Center, and not Disney.

Here are some photos of the property (end of the album) from today.

https://darkbeer.smugmug.com/Theme-Parks/Anaheim-Resort-District---1052017/

Just drove by the former Anabella and. The rest of the buildings are now torn down.

And here is what will replace it,

http://www.hotelmanagement.net/deve...t-southern-california-s-first-westin-25-years

 

[DLR92]

Just drove by the former Anabella and. The rest of the buildings are now torn down.

And here is what will replace it,

http://www.hotelmanagement.net/deve...t-southern-california-s-first-westin-25-years

Very exciting time for Anaheim.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Very exciting time for Anaheim.

Is this the property that @TP2000 speculated might be a Four Seasons?

 

[Darkbeer1]

Is this the property that @TP2000 speculated might be a Four Seasons?

Not sure, there are 5 4-star projects in the works. The former Anabella was always planned to be a "business" Hotel to support the Convention Center.

Then we have the Disney owned Hotel next to the Disneyland Hotel.

Three other approved sites.

At Harbor and Disney Way, The Anaheim Hotel is planned to become a Park focused 4-star.

Then the two empty pads on the east end of Anaheim GardenWalk.

Not sure which one might become a Four Seasons, guess we will have to wait for TP2000 to answer.

 

[Disney Irish]

Mickey and Friends is about 10,000 vehicles or 40,000 guests. A structure to replace the Toy Story/Katella CM lot would need to be at least 15,000 to 20,000 cars, or up to 80,000 guests. A peak time, say just after the fireworks or park closing, youneed to move say 20,000 guest in one hour, or over 300 people, including strollers and wheelchairs a minute. I know of nothing that can handle that volume. That is like a subway train leaving every minute, and loading would take more time than that.

So that is a very big issue.

So the real question is how much capacity does the trams do per hour to M&Fs? And how much capacity does the buses do per hour to the Toy Story and other lots? Combined they may do 20k per hour, but separately they likely do between 5k-10k. So you only need lines that can meet or exceed the individual modes used now for each route.

PRT or other PeopleMover type systems can be designed to have higher capacities based on the number of tracks and vehicle size. Also its assumed that it won't be a single line system that covers ALL parking structures at one time. But more likely multiple lines that each cover each of the parking structures.

So given the point-to-point nature of this use case (loading site to parking structure with no other stops) it won't be hard to get a PRT system that can do 10k per hour per line. Especially since you can eliminate the stops that buses must do because of being on surface streets. Multiply that by 2 or more lines and you can get 20k or more per hour. And because the system can be almost if not fully automated you can eliminate labor overhead, with just a few needed at loading for directions if needed.

 

[DLR92]

Is this the property that @TP2000 speculated might be a Four Seasons?

Yup! I remember that post! and I believed in TP2000 speculation. LOL