Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

[LittleBuford]

I go back to my dinner party analogy - if I invited people with dietary restrictions I would not make the entire dinner around their restrictions but I would make sure there were plenty of options that were available to them.

But you would presumably also make a simple adjustment to one of your recipes if it didn’t affect the overall flavour and if more of your guests could enjoy it.

 

[Parker in NYC]

"They did it too" is a morally bankrupt excuse to justify the sins of the past and to shrug off responsibility to make amends in the present.

Louder for those in the front who can't... read.

 

[Sue_Vongello]

But you would presumably also make a simple adjustment to one of your recipes if it didn’t affect the overall flavour and if more of your guests could enjoy it.

Absolutely, I think that’s very fair (see: Jungle Cruise). But I wouldn’t completely change the dish or substitute ingredients wholesale that changes the dish entirely (see: Splash Mountain).

 

[celluloid]

Absolutely, I think that’s very fair (see: Jungle Cruise). But I wouldn’t completely change the dish or substitute ingredients wholesale that changes the dish entirely (see: Splash Mountain).

I agree It is very fair. I also would not judge someone harshly if their way of going about it was to offer one dish with those ingredients and one without.

 

[tl77]

Absolutely, I think that’s very fair (see: Jungle Cruise). But I wouldn’t completely change the dish or substitute ingredients wholesale that changes the dish entirely (see: Splash Mountain).

EXACTLY! THIS!! No one is suggesting they completely replace the Jungle Cruise because of a few "problematic" scenes... but why not? Why only "change those few scenes"? Can't you have 2 Princess and the Frog themed rides? Seems like it'd be pretty easy to turn the Jungle Cruise into a Bayou... and there are multiple Toy Story attractions...

There are offensive things in both Jungle Cruise and Splash Mountain... I thought Splash Mountain was questionable the day it opened, but I'm amazed that The Jungle Cruise hasn't been changed before now. My problem with Imagineering is lately they seem to have a "Disneyland bias". They like to build things like Galaxy's Edge and Run away Railway that meet the Disneyland guests expectations and capacity issues, but Disney World is just a place where they "raise prices and cut budgets" to balance their bottom-line.

Jungle Cruise at Disneyland is one of their best attractions, but Splash Mountain is just one of many rides there... at Magic Kingdom Splash Mountain is arguably the best attraction, and the Jungle Cruise is pretty much skip-able. If they pulled all the Song of the South Characters out on WDW's Splash Mountain... it'd still be the best attraction in Magic Kingdom and certainly better than The Magic Kingdom's Jungle Cruise.

 

[_caleb]

I just want to make this statement to add to the framework of the conversation:

I think the problem is how we define being inclusive in a theme park context, essentially a place where millions come with a wide range of backgrounds and beliefs.

I think some people say to be inclusive every single item in the park must be representative of all nationalities and free of offense to every single possible group. That’s where the “slippery slope” conversation comes in because if that’s the premise it’s doomed to fail.

I think the more accurate way to define inclusion in the theme park context is not to change every attraction or every single thing to ensure no offense is ever given but to offer more and a variety of options that cater to everyone.

I go back to my dinner party analogy - if I invited people with dietary restrictions I would not make the entire dinner around their restrictions but I would make sure there were plenty of options that were available to them.

I think that’s the better approach. Offer more varied options to ensure everyone feels included which is a joyful exercise because your making these additions out of love - don’t change everything because your worried your going to offend some group or some person because then you’re making decisions out of fear.

Everyone should feel welcome and everyone should feel included but not every attraction has to appeal to every person.

So you want to make separate but equal Disney attractions for different nationalities?

Do you see a difference between courtesy/sensitivity to others and fear?

 

[rylouisbo]

Some of you failed your history classes and it shows.

Y’all projecting so much onto like 4 seconds of a family ride that almost nobody is offended by. some rando said it was bad so now Disney can remove it and pretend to be woke as they make deals with racist governments all the while the rando that was offended by jungle cruise could care less about Disney giving money to people committing human rights violations right now today because they’re too busy clapping like seals that the random animatronic that nobody cared about is gone and it vaguely referenced a historical event that they didn’t like.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Jungle Cruise at Disneyland is one of their best attractions, but Splash Mountain is just one of many rides there.

As a Disneyland local, this is completely false. I wish I could go on Splash Mountain with a 30 minute wait at most like with the Jungle Cruise.

Can't you have 2 Princess and the Frog themed rides?

....Why? I mean if you're going to replace the JC with any IP at least do it with something unique like a Moana ride or something.

 

[LittleBuford]

Absolutely, I think that’s very fair (see: Jungle Cruise). But I wouldn’t completely change the dish or substitute ingredients wholesale that changes the dish entirely (see: Splash Mountain).

Most of us seem to be in agreement as regards the minor changes planned for the Jungle Cruise, so I’m not sure why the discussion keeps drifting to Splash Mountain, which is admittedly a more contentious topic.

 

[Sue_Vongello]

Most of us seem to be in agreement as regards the minor changes planned for the Jungle Cruise, so I’m not sure why the topic keeps drifting to Splash Mountain, which is admittedly a more contentious topic.

Sorry I didn’t mean to derail the conversation. But it’s drifting that way Simply because it’s an extension of the seeming initiative that both attractions are apart of at the moment and the stark contrasts of the approach - namely how Jungle Cruise accomplishes the initiative in a minimal way with appropriate nuance and the proposed Splash Mountain redo is doing the opposite.

 

[LittleBuford]

Sorry I didn’t mean to derail the conversation. But it’s drifting that way Simply because it’s an extension of the seeming initiative that both attractions are apart of at the moment and the stark contrasts of the approach - namely how Jungle Cruise accomplishes the initiative in a minimal way with appropriate nuance and the proposed Splash Mountain redo is doing the opposite.

Please don’t apologise—that wasn’t directed at you, and I’m sorry if it came across that way.

I think that those who feared that the retheme of Splash Mountain would open the floodgates should feel reassured by the planned tweaks to the Jungle Cruise, which show that Disney is approaching these attractions on a case-by-case basis rather than pursuing an all-or-nothing campaign.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Most of us seem to be in agreement as regards the minor changes planned for the Jungle Cruise, so I’m not sure why the topic keeps drifting to Splash Mountain, which is admittedly a more contentious topic.

They aren’t comparable. Not even a little. But of course people (casuals) are going to compare them because Disney has provided about the same amount of context for both.

 

[MurphyJoe]

Skimming through this. Maybe Disney should fill in Jungle Cruise at MK, build Indy on top, and then build a Jungle Cruise style attraction with real animals over at Animal Kingdom, but without the colonialism, if the attraction itself is problematic.

 

[rylouisbo]

if colonialism is a problem then the united states is a problem and disney itself is a problem. colonialism like all things had good and bad people need to stop rewriting history and pretending colonialism was a pure evil or any different than the other horrible things happening at the same time. should native peoples not be shown because they practiced human sacrifice, no because even though that was horrible there were many great things that native peoples have contributed to society... stop the cancel culture.

 

[JoeCamel]

Skimming through this. Maybe Disney should fill in Jungle Cruise at MK, build Indy on top, and then build a Jungle Cruise style attraction with real animals over at Animal Kingdom, but without the colonialism, if the attraction itself is problematic.

Close - Fire Mountain
AK? ahh its ok

 

[doctornick]

I just want to make this statement to add to the framework of the conversation:

I think the problem is how we define being inclusive in a theme park context, essentially a place where millions come with a wide range of backgrounds and beliefs.

I think some people say to be inclusive every single item in the park must be representative of all nationalities and free of offense to every single possible group. That’s where the “slippery slope” conversation comes in because if that’s the premise it’s doomed to fail.

I think the more accurate way to define inclusion in the theme park context is not to change every attraction or every single thing to ensure no offense is ever given but to offer more and a variety of options that cater to everyone.

I go back to my dinner party analogy - if I invited people with dietary restrictions I would not make the entire dinner around their restrictions but I would make sure there were plenty of options that were available to them.

I think that’s the better approach. Offer more varied options to ensure everyone feels included which is a joyful exercise because your making these additions out of love - don’t change everything because your worried your going to offend some group or some person because then you’re making decisions out of fear.

Everyone should feel welcome and everyone should feel included but not every attraction has to appeal to every person.

Bravo! Thank you for really getting to the heart of the matter.

If Disney were truly committed to inclusion, the best way is to have a wide variety of attractions featuring characters and themes representative of cultures from all around the world. Everyone should be able to feel they are represented in the parks especially given the diversity of guests at WDW. They absolutely can “do better” in this regard and just saying it’s expensive or they don’t have appropriate characters is a cop out.

 

[Buck Wheelie]

Just so I understand the "outrage" are people offended of the head hunter because he has dark skin?

 

[Brer Panther]

Why do so many recent threads on this site basically devolve into "This isn't racist!" and "Yes, it IS racist, and YOU'RE racist for liking it!" over and over again?

 

[networkpro]

From what I read, its because of the stereotypical representation of mechnical figures dressed up as hostile natives, dancers, and up until a few years ago as the lower figures on a pole attempting to escape mechanical wildlife menacing them from below.

Much tamer that the Six Flags over Georgia copycat "Jean Ribault's Riverboat Adventure" that was a real slap in the face.

 

[networkpro]

Why do so many recent threads on this site basically devolve into "This isn't racist!" and "Yes, it IS racist, and YOU'RE racist for liking it!" over and over again?

Echo chamber for ax grinders ?