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Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

WillWrambles

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Hmm, not sure who you are responding to here, because it certainly isn't me. I've never talked about "wokeness" and have never called anyone names like you just did. They have NOT told us the whole story yet, only small bits and pieces, and removing set pieces for no explanation is what seems to be upsetting some. If they have a better story, then please, lay it on us, and I'm sure we'll go with it.

Instead of this crazy piecemeal approach, I would have much rather they shut down the ride for however long it would take to make all of the changes all at once. Then when it reopened, we could go on the ride, and judge for ourselves whether we like the changes or not.
I do believe your response was just the most recent, but it was definitely intended for someone else. Carry on.
 

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
It will be interesting when the current elementary school aged children become 20 + somethings if seeing old photos and footage of what was displayed on the rides will stimulate nostalgia and a desire to bring back what has and is being removed? Childhood memories can be very different. Seeing things through a child's eyes, remember, did you see things the same as a child? Everyone on this earth started life as a child some choose to conveniently forget that and make believe they were always adults. Social concepts and views change!
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member
I'd still like an answer as to what was wrong with the skulls? No one seemed to answer that one.
Disney's target audience are impressionable children. Thus having negative imagery associated with certain cultures may form negative biases later on that are problematic and not beneficial to society. Getting rid of them at a FAMILY park was deemed appropriate by management. Disney does not want to be a factor in creating NEGATIVE opinions of historically based ethnic persons and world cultures within their parks.
 

Phicinfan

Well-Known Member
I frankly think all of these changes are upgrades. Did Jungle Cruise need this much work? No. In most cases this type of thing would be down for an IP tie in. We are not getting that. Who knew removing some skulls or whatever would break people. Although I am not surprised.
First of all, I will always be for an upgrade. I will also hold judgement on any ride until it is completed and I can see the finished product.
I for one am concerned if they move away from the original "idea" of the Jungle Cruise and move to something totally different.
Regardless, the natives are NOT derogatory. Nor are the boats, nor are the skulls. They depict what life was like in the time period this is supposed to take place.
I am looking forward to see how they incorporate the sunk ship(true tongue in cheek there, bravo Disney).
But if they are removing those items JUST to remove them, due to some believed insult, then that is simply sad.
I hope the ride is better, but will miss thing being taken out, IF they were taken out for the wrong reasons
 

jinx8402

Well-Known Member
I have already stated multiple times that I'm just fine with the changes they are making, and others have pointed out why they have removed the skulls, and I completely understand their position on it. I was simply questioning why Disney is giving us piecemeal looks at the new stuff. Why so angry with me? Guess I wasn't being inclusive and understanding enough for you. My apologies.
You are getting piecemeal looks because they are making changes without taking the entire offline. So they removed some stuff, and will likely put new things in. This isn't Disney blasting "we removed spears with heads on them" in the news cycle, it is blogs posting what they are observing in real time.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Someone on another forum brought up an excellent point that I agree with: it's actually better if we don't see Sam. Just like we don't see Dr. Albert Falls, or Master Gracey (other than his hanging corpse). They're a legend and can be whoever you want them to be. Trader Sam now exists as an unseen mystery figure who is always looking for a way to make a buck off of tourists.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
No, they are not.
The fact that you don’t think it’s a caricature is a commentary on how poor our curricula are in this.

Caricature: a picture, description, or imitation of a person in which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.

JC is the very definition of caricature.
 
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Goofnut1980

Well-Known Member
I think in order to have this ready by the 50th they likely need to do it all at once now if not it may take too long for installation with Disney's speed of construction
I am trying to think, how long ago did they take out, Sam and the pole? I would have thought they would have had the new set pieces ready to pop into place. Can be too much reusing of them.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
I'd still like an answer as to what was wrong with the skulls? No one seemed to answer that one.
If skulls are problematic, they'll need to redo Indiana Jones Adventure, and probably should remove the stunt show since the character is associated with the same type of jungle exoticism found in the Jungle Cruise.

Interesting that Disney continues to make Indiana Jones movies, too. Guess they have a selective memory when it comes to "offensive" IP.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
If skulls are problematic, they'll need to redo Indiana Jones Adventure, and probably should remove the stunt show since the character is associated with the same type of jungle exoticism found in the Jungle Cruise.

Interesting that Disney continues to make Indiana Jones movies, too. Guess they have a selective memory when it comes to "offensive" IP.
Apparently it wasn't the skulls per se, but the pygmy reference, so they had to go.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
It shouldn't matter why Disney is making certain changes, all that should matter is that the result is superior, or at the very least, keeps the original spirit. I can understand a lot of resentment to a lot of the ongoing projects, especially in Epcot, but not Jungle Cruise. While it's always perfectly acceptable to have dissenting opinions and different perspectives, from my view, the majority of complaints about the JC changes stem from complaining for the sake of complaining.

This is largely my take. I don't think that most of the Jungle Cruise changes are necessarily really - I can understand the "natives" but feel that Sam and the people on the pole were fine - but it doesn't really matter why changes are occurring, what is more important is the result. And at least from the concept art and descriptions, the changes seem they will continue to be in the spirit of the ride and be of comparable (and maybe even improved) quality. So, I'm on board with changing JC.

As a way of comparison, pretty much every change done to POTC over the years has made that ride worse and it's sad.

I'm fearful for the Splash redo as I suspect it will end up being a lesser experience. I don't think modern Disney has the will to develop such an engaging AA heavy attraction any more. So while I also think that Splash doesn't need to be changed, I'm more concerned with the final product than the motivation.

That all being said, I think the flip side argument is that if money is being spent on changing rides that don't need modification, that's less money being available to spend elsewhere. Personally, I'd rather see any money being put towards JC or Splash to be spent fixing Stitch or Imagination or re-tracking Space - all of which should be far greater priorities than modifying rides that are generally well regarded and enjoyed. YMMV
 
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Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
I won't belabor the point. I will say I was wrong, in that I was not fully understanding what the ride was based on. Did some quick checking and saw that it was based mostly on the movie African Queen staring Humphrey Bogart, so yes I can see the point on it being based on caricature of the 40s and 50s.

I still don't know I totally agree that it is a grotesque or comic exaggeration, I don't believe that was the intent. But I am wrong on the basis of what it was designed against.
I appreciate that.

I’m not going to belabor the point past this, I just look at it as the entire ride is designed to get as many laughs as possible...the comic intent behind the design seems pretty evident 🤷‍♀️
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
Apparently it wasn't the skulls per se, but the pygmy reference, so they had to go.
Doesn't matter the specific reference; by the logic of the Jungle Cruise redo, the IJA and Indiana Jones IP are offenders. They won't be touched because Disney still believes the IP is relevant and marketable. That remains to be seen.

Could also see an argument that the Carousel of Progress projects a white supremacist view of America. The show purports to depict a "typical" American family over the years; in this case that's white/middle class/heteronormative. Educated guess would say Tiki and Country Bears' days are numbered, too.

Once the boulder starts rolling like in IJA, it's not easily stopped, especially when "revising" or replacing these things is employable work.
 

Archie123

Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter the specific reference; by the logic of the Jungle Cruise redo, the IJA and Indiana Jones IP are offenders. They won't be touched because Disney still believes the IP is relevant and marketable. That remains to be seen.

Could also see an argument that the Carousel of Progress projects a white supremacist view of America. The show purports to depict a "typical" American family over the years; in this case that's white/middle class/heteronormative. Educated guess would say Tiki and Country Bears' days are numbered, too.

Once the boulder starts rolling like in IJA, it's not easily stopped, especially when "revising" or replacing these things is employable work.

Try not to hurt yourself making those leaps of logic. I did chuckle about COP projecting a white supremacist view.
 

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