Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
I feel like this attraction is more akin to the jumping water fountains outside of Figment. As a kid in the 80's those jumping fountains brought me all kind of joy and were a fun little diversion in the park. As another poster said, the problem with this area is WDW acting like it is a wonderful new show stopping attraction when it should just be opened quietly. Although, to be fair, maybe we feel that way because we are on these boards and we are tracking the progress. To most Disney newbies, it will open without much fanfare and it might be a fun little addition.
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
He's far from a Disney critic. Right now, he's defending a bunch of plants and fountains masquerading as an attraction. Oh well, at least we're not getting a Moana bathroom. Although that would be more on-theme than Tangled, given its IP-appropriate "water features" 🤪.
I guess, do we know what we are getting? I would hope that each segment of the journey discusses a different part of the water cycle and provides some visualization. Whether that is rock speakers blasting thunder w/ a rainstorm from sprinklers, to flowing water through rocks and a plexi-glass cutaway view of water below the surface, followed by the growth of plants, and a body of water evaporating in the Florida sun. Of course ending with, "I make it rain...you're welcome!"
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
As another poster said, the problem with this area is WDW acting like it is a wonderful new show stopping attraction when it should just be opened quietly.
I really don’t think Disney is hyping the attraction in the way that some here are suggesting. Also, how could they have opened it quietly given the not insignificant scale of construction involved?
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Look, I loved Horizons, probably more than a lot of people. But not for one second do I think kids today would be interested in that ride. Or World of Motion.
What they want is Guardians, Nintendo and whatever else and that really seems to irk a lot of Epcot fans. They definitely don't want "edutainment".

(yes, I'm sure some will come here and talk about how their kid would love it, but most wouldn't)
Yeah, folks in the 80s were obsessed with intellectual, staid, slow entertainment like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone action films, MTV, X-Men comics, and Nintendos and Segas. Unlike today, 80s culture famously emphasized long attention spans and deep, intelligent discussion.

I cannot overstate how much I loathe the “kids today” argument that is CONSTANTLY rolled out to justify the butchering of EPCOT. It combines a total misrepresentation of cultural history with condescension about modern young people all in service of a misguided defense of one of the most deeply stupid things Disney has ever done.

Maybe EPCOT needs a series of pavilions highlighting the cultural history of each decade. Might help.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
They have Moana / Star Wars / Marvel / Whatever in the palms of their hand, literally, already.
But see, those properties are HIP and NEW! Kids today want Mickey Mouse (debuted 1928), Superman (1938), Captain America (1941), James Bond (1953), Lord of the Rings (1954), Spider-Man (1962), Mission: Impossible (1966), Star Trek (1966), Star Wars (1977), Mario (1981), Transformers (1984), Top Gun (1986), Jurassic Park (1990), etc…

If there’s one thing that defines our current pop culture moment, it’s that only new and unfamiliar things sell and the public gets tired of IPs after just one or two installments.
 
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LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
You don’t see the contradiction here?
Nope. There are many shades of grey between hyping something and quietly announcing it. If Disney said nothing at all about the attraction, we would all be asking why all that rock-work was going up. The relatively modest degree to which Disney has advertised the attraction is to my mind commensurate with the scale and nature of the attraction itself.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Nope. There are many shades of grey between hyping something and quietly announcing it. If Disney said nothing at all about the attraction, we would all be asking why all that rock-work was going up. The relatively modest degree to which Disney has advertised the attraction is to my mind commensurate with the scale and nature of the attraction itself.
If something is “not insignificant” then it is “significant” right? So the little walkthrough being described as “significant scale” is a good bit of hype.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
If something is “not insignificant” then it is “significant” right? So the little walkthrough being described as “significant scale” is a good bit of hype.
Not in my lexicon. Significant > not insignificant > insignificant. Disney has neither hyped the attraction nor downplayed it, just as the attraction itself is neither an E-ticket nor a paddling pool.

Again, many shades of grey between the dichotomy you’re trying to posit.

ETA: And it was the scale of construction that I described as not insignificant. I believe my characterisation to be fair:

Journey-of-Water-Inspired-by-Moana_Full_45575.jpg
 
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Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
I feel like this attraction is more akin to the jumping water fountains outside of Figment. As a kid in the 80's those jumping fountains brought me all kind of joy and were a fun little diversion in the park. As another poster said, the problem with this area is WDW acting like it is a wonderful new show stopping attraction when it should just be opened quietly. Although, to be fair, maybe we feel that way because we are on these boards and we are tracking the progress. To most Disney newbies, it will open without much fanfare and it might be a fun little addition.
I think WDW has no choice but to hype this money pit debacle that is taking way too long to complete...
 

SilentWindODoom

Well-Known Member
Why I LIKE Moana -
1. It's better than nothing.
2. It looks like it will a good place to get out of the direct sun and heat and check the app for my next LL
3. I am so looking forward to the walls coming down.
4. It's better than nothing - oh did I list this already?

The whole spine project has been a massive waste of time and money.

The end result will not be substantially different than what was there before.

But the combination of wanting something new and for the walls to come down ASAP has built up this image in people's mind of something truly worth the wait.

It can't just be filler after so many years of off and on construction and promotion. So it will be amazing, even if it's not.

My overarching views of this project: I don't have to schlep all the way to the center fountains to get to any of the pavilions on that side. The Seas, which was my favorite pavilions pre-Nemo, is no longer a dead end. This alone is a plus. A dead building is gone. Plus.

There's been a lot of discussion on Disney failing to keep up with the the future and shuttering things rather than trying. But not one person has mentioned the biggest thing to create the situation we're in now: the failure of the sponsorship model. EPCOT Center was built on that. Now, either it's gone or the few that have hung on pushed for change to get the most bang for their buck. It's one thing with the large pavilions, and you can say that they should just pour out the money to take care of the job themselves, but with the plaza buildings, they were never going to do that and were never supposed to do it. All they had for sure was Coke.

So, the building was dead. Anything is a plus.

We always talk about having smaller-scale attractions to offset the big E-Tickets. Yet Disney creates a smaller-level attraction and...?

EPCOT is full of water features. People bemoaned the ponds that used to be in the hub and were cemented over. Now, there's something put back.

This is just another of the many water features already in EPCOT. It's a more... animated one. It's the dancing fountains (and the backward waterfall) by Imagination raised to a much higher level. Add some edutainment (Water Cycle + Moana references), and it's a great fit for EPCOT.

People complain that the company only focuses on E-tickets or making D-tickets that they try to pass off as E-tickets. They're making a neat little walkthrough. It will probably look cool. I like water. It's replacing literally nothing and will undo the way the hub has been paved over or left to overgrow.

Consider how you might feel if they'd built Journey of Water here:

View attachment 655755

Then consider that this is basically what they're doing, only at EPCOT. Sure, it's close to some areas where you could argue that Moana fits (Adventureland in my example, or, more tenuously, The Seas at EPCOT), and you could argue that the space was underutilized before. But having it encroach into an established area the way it is throws off larger dynamics of the park. That they're essentially dead-ending the walkthrough so that it won't be accessible from the central plaza is all the worse for these dynamics, and makes the space more confusing and irregular than it was before.

There is a distinct difference between replacing open green area, chopping out an iconic entrance, and hiding away a place that used to have a nice vista view of it and replacing a dead, empty building that actively blocked view of things with something that has a smaller footprint, opens the space up, and provides MORE access. Not to mention that despite them both being hubs, the hubs of the two parks are functionally different.

Add to this the fact that both Moana the movie and Moana the character are deserving of larger representation within the resort and it compounds the issue. Why is EPCOT the park where Disney takes massive properties and bunts with them? Frozen, Moana, Nemo . . . these movies made nearly $3 Billion between them, and not including the given sequels. Why do we get a 2 C Tickets and an B Ticket attraction out of them? Especially when two of those properties are crying out to be in Magic Kingdom instead?

Why is Moana sitting in the shadow of Spaceship Earth when she should very obviously be in the shade of the Adventureland palms? It just smacks of poor planning and under-investment, which seem to be emblematic of the current direction of the resort and people take issue with that. It feels like damage control because that's what it is. EPCOT has been the most visible case of this. The park has been failing because Disney refuses to invest properly, and their solution is to . . . refuse to invest properly. At least Cosmic Rewind had a more than healthy budget, though after riding it myself I'll be darned if I could tell you where that money went.

Had they build this in the place that made the most thematic sense, or had they invested seriously in one of their biggest new Princess characters, or had they developed an attraction that didn't feel wholly tacked on to the space that already exists around it, and if they didn't have a suspiciously lousy track record of not doing all these things despite the overwhelming wealth and success of the resort enterprise . . . perhaps we wouldn't have so much to decry.

I don't understand why people are complaining about something over nothing. Should there be more? That would be nice. A Polynesian pavilion with a larger attraction? You'd have people complaining of them misrepresenting culture like Frozen in Norway and people who protested the film to begin with. Adventureland fits well, but it's one of the most cramped corners of the Magic Kingdom. There's a space behind the Crystal Palace that I don't know the use of which probably could hold... Journey of Water Featuring Moana. You could rethemed the carpets and the Agrabah area to fit in with the Tiki Room, but a spinner actually feels like less than what we're getting.

I have no illusions about this being an E-ticket. I haven't seen Disney push it. I haven't seen the people looking forward to this hyping it up. Maybe some people elsewhere, but here it's mostly been people with reasonable expectations and detractors yelling at those people with reasonable expectations that they're blindly hyping it up as a huge feature.

The location thematically for a water cycle lesson is perfect because the water cycle is the meeting point between the Seas and the Land.

It does, but almost no one cares about riding half of them. That wasn't an issue in the park's prime.

Regardless, I'm not mad about the water thing. Would it have made more sense at DAK? Yeah, probably. Could it be in a better location at EPCOT? Yeah, probably. Is it at least something pretty/relatively educational (hopefully) that's better than a festival center or a Starbucks? Definitely.

The water cycle being illustrated makes absolutely no sense in Animal Kingdom. If you tried to shoehorn it in, Lion King is the correct IP for it. Moana has little to do with animals besides two domesticated sidekicks, a shapeshifting human, and one big ol' crap. It's Animal Kingdom style, which is something that's nice to have and the wealth of such an experience should be spread elsewhere. And if you're going to do Polynesian animal stuff, someone already mentioned that Nemo is the play.

He's far from a Disney critic. Right now, he's defending a bunch of plants and fountains masquerading as an attraction. Oh well, at least we're not getting a Moana bathroom. Although that would be more on-theme than Tangled, given its IP-appropriate "water features" 🤪.

People who don't see the difference between "You don't constantly hate on something" and "You defend it to the death and make excuses to try to fool yourself" don't have a place in rational conversation.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
My overarching views of this project: I don't have to schlep all the way to the center fountains to get to any of the pavilions on that side. The Seas, which was my favorite pavilions pre-Nemo, is no longer a dead end. This alone is a plus. A dead building is gone. Plus.

There's been a lot of discussion on Disney failing to keep up with the the future and shuttering things rather than trying. But not one person has mentioned the biggest thing to create the situation we're in now: the failure of the sponsorship model. EPCOT Center was built on that. Now, either it's gone or the few that have hung on pushed for change to get the most bang for their buck. It's one thing with the large pavilions, and you can say that they should just pour out the money to take care of the job themselves, but with the plaza buildings, they were never going to do that and were never supposed to do it. All they had for sure was Coke.

So, the building was dead. Anything is a plus.





People complain that the company only focuses on E-tickets or making D-tickets that they try to pass off as E-tickets. They're making a neat little walkthrough. It will probably look cool. I like water. It's replacing literally nothing and will undo the way the hub has been paved over or left to overgrow.



There is a distinct difference between replacing open green area, chopping out an iconic entrance, and hiding away a place that used to have a nice vista view of it and replacing a dead, empty building that actively blocked view of things with something that has a smaller footprint, opens the space up, and provides MORE access. Not to mention that despite them both being hubs, the hubs of the two parks are functionally different.



I don't understand why people are complaining about something over nothing. Should there be more? That would be nice. A Polynesian pavilion with a larger attraction? You'd have people complaining of them misrepresenting culture like Frozen in Norway and people who protested the film to begin with. Adventureland fits well, but it's one of the most cramped corners of the Magic Kingdom. There's a space behind the Crystal Palace that I don't know the use of which probably could hold... Journey of Water Featuring Moana. You could rethemed the carpets and the Agrabah area to fit in with the Tiki Room, but a spinner actually feels like less than what we're getting.

I have no illusions about this being an E-ticket. I haven't seen Disney push it. I haven't seen the people looking forward to this hyping it up. Maybe some people elsewhere, but here it's mostly been people with reasonable expectations and detractors yelling at those people with reasonable expectations that they're blindly hyping it up as a huge feature.

The location thematically for a water cycle lesson is perfect because the water cycle is the meeting point between the Seas and the Land.



The water cycle being illustrated makes absolutely no sense in Animal Kingdom. If you tried to shoehorn it in, Lion King is the correct IP for it. Moana has little to do with animals besides two domesticated sidekicks, a shapeshifting human, and one big ol' crap. It's Animal Kingdom style, which is something that's nice to have and the wealth of such an experience should be spread elsewhere. And if you're going to do Polynesian animal stuff, someone already mentioned that Nemo is the play.



People who don't see the difference between "You don't constantly hate on something" and "You defend it to the death and make excuses to try to fool yourself" don't have a place in rational conversation.
When they replaced Malstrom with Frozen, I did not like the idea, but after riding frozen, I like what they have done and like the ride and ride it when the line is not to too long.

It's possible, whenever they finish "Moana's Money Pit", I will like it too and being a walk through maybe it won't get too crowded.

These discussions are fun. And as I said on many posts, Disney is gonna do, what Disney's is gonna do no matter what we say here.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
The water cycle being illustrated makes absolutely no sense in Animal Kingdom. If you tried to shoehorn it in, Lion King is the correct IP for it. Moana has little to do with animals besides two domesticated sidekicks, a shapeshifting human, and one big ol' crap. It's Animal Kingdom style, which is something that's nice to have and the wealth of such an experience should be spread elsewhere. And if you're going to do Polynesian animal stuff, someone already mentioned that Nemo is the play.

It's a nature area; that's why it makes the most sense at Animal Kingdom. Especially since it could be used as part of a larger Oceania area that would include animals. It's not like it's really a Moana attraction (at least as far as we understand it). If it was a Moana attraction, it would make more sense in Adventureland or DHS.

But I already said I'm not upset about it (even though I don't think it's a very good fit where it's going in multiple ways). I'm also willing to revise my opinion on the fit once it's open and we know what it actually is -- I'm assuming the water cycle isn't really a major component, but it could be.
 
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EPCOTCenterLover

Well-Known Member
Most of us can agree that the arguing decreases once a new attraction opens. Then Disney hypes it until the masses accept it. I can’t wait for the new Epcot to open so I can move on.
 

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