Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot

[Sir_Cliff]

I will freely admit that I was one of those who thought from the initial concept art and announcement that this would just be a series of trails with perhaps some vaguely Moana-themed signage that led in the direction of The Seas. In that respect, it seemed... fine. I fully admit @lazyboy97o ended up being right that I was being too optimistic about the plans, but I feel a little more comfortable seeing the original concept art that this was what they were hinting at initially. It would have been more of a leap to read an enclosed trail that started and ended at The Seas into what they initially presented.

 

[LittleBuford]

I’m not sure why it’s a bad thing that this isn’t a trail to somewhere else. Surely something self-sufficient has more credibility as a standalone attraction.

 

[Movielover]

I’m not sure why it’s a bad thing that this isn’t a trail to somewhere else. Surely something self-sufficient has more credibility as a standalone attraction.

It's not a bad thing, it's just more goal post moving done by some on here to make them feel justified in their opinions.

 

[Casper Gutman]

It's not a bad thing, it's just more goal post moving done by some on here to make them feel justified in their opinions.

It is completely, absurdly out of place. It clashes with every other element in Future World. That's why folks believed it had to be connected directly to Seas - it was the only way that its placement could be even loosely justified.

It will become another of EPCOT's many big, empty, pointless spaces, joining Odyssey and the Millennium Pavilion and Play! and the end of Imagination and etc. etc. The only difference is that this space is outdoors.

And we can make a very good guess as to its life cycle - WDW management will very quickly tire of paying for staff and upkeep at such a pointless attraction, one that doesn't move merchandise and likely won't make much of an impact on guest satisfaction or significantly dent park-wide capacity. It will be a meet-and-greet within two years (if it isn't at opening) and roped off within eight.

It's primary function is as a monument to the horribly dysfunctional development process that fueled the much-needed EPCOT redesign - the complete and overwhelming lack of vision, the indecision and second-guessing in the board room, the absence of efficient practices, the clash of CEO egos, the unimaginably over-inflated budgets, the comically self-aggrandizing PR, the ham-handed insertion of IPs. The development of "new" EPCOT would make a very funny Office style sit-com with little embellishment, and Path of Water is the punchline.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

It is completely, absurdly out of place. It clashes with every other element in Future World. That's why folks believed it had to be connected directly to Seas - it was the only way that its placement could be even loosely justified.

It will become another of EPCOT's many big, empty, pointless spaces, joining Odyssey and the Millennium Pavilion and Play! and the end of Imagination and etc. etc. The only difference is that this space is outdoors.

And we can make a very good guess as to its life cycle - WDW management will very quickly tire of paying for staff and upkeep at such a pointless attraction, one that doesn't move merchandise and likely won't make much of an impact on guest satisfaction or significantly dent park-wide capacity. It will be a meet-and-greet within two years (if it isn't at opening) and roped off within eight.

It's primary function is as a monument to the horribly dysfunctional development process that fueled the much-needed EPCOT redesign - the complete and overwhelming lack of vision, the indecision and second-guessing in the board room, the absence of efficient practices, the clash of CEO egos, the unimaginably over-inflated budgets, the comically self-aggrandizing PR, the ham-handed insertion of IPs. The development of "new" EPCOT would make a very funny Office style sit-com with little embellishment, and Path of Water is the punchline.

Boy Meets Flooring

 

[doctornick]

I’m not sure why it’s a bad thing that this isn’t a trail to somewhere else. Surely something self-sufficient has more credibility as a standalone attraction.

Yeah, I'm not sure either. Whether it were going to be a series of path (or just one) from the hub to the Seas or a fixed loop starting and stopping at the Seas isn't really one being better or worse, they are just different.

As is, instead of being like walking through the Oasis part of DAK, it seems to be more like something like Maharajah Jungle Trek. Either set up has some benefits and downsides. The current concept will be easier to flesh out as a linear cohesive experience. It also seems to strengthen World Nature as a separate section of the park. And of course being right next to the Seas it connects with how mankind has always had a close relationship with water and the oceans and how that has helped to mold civilization. It still looks like a gorgeous addition to the park and some of my favorite parts of the Disney are the walk through attractions where you can do them at your own pace and take a break from more hectic activities and waiting in line.

On the downside, I was looking forward to more connections from the hub as sometimes paths can be crowded and circuitous. Having more pathways would have had some benefit. But so be it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It also seems to strengthen World Nature as a separate section of the park.

Lands are spatial experiences. Journey of Water is off to the side, physically separated from the rest of the neighborhood while also breaking the supposedly important, slightly reconstituted, parti of World Celebrate. Overstating the attraction’s scope, scale and placement are exactly the issue.

 

[solidyne]

It is completely, absurdly out of place. It clashes with every other element in Future World. That's why folks believed it had to be connected directly to Seas - it was the only way that its placement could be even loosely justified.

It will become another of EPCOT's many big, empty, pointless spaces, joining Odyssey and the Millennium Pavilion and Play! and the end of Imagination and etc. etc. The only difference is that this space is outdoors.

And we can make a very good guess as to its life cycle - WDW management will very quickly tire of paying for staff and upkeep at such a pointless attraction, one that doesn't move merchandise and likely won't make much of an impact on guest satisfaction or significantly dent park-wide capacity. It will be a meet-and-greet within two years (if it isn't at opening) and roped off within eight.

It's primary function is as a monument to the horribly dysfunctional development process that fueled the much-needed EPCOT redesign - the complete and overwhelming lack of vision, the indecision and second-guessing in the board room, the absence of efficient practices, the clash of CEO egos, the unimaginably over-inflated budgets, the comically self-aggrandizing PR, the ham-handed insertion of IPs. The development of "new" EPCOT would make a very funny Office style sit-com with little embellishment, and Path of Water is the punchline.

Well done. This grumpiness is becoming a fine art. And I thought I was skeptical of this attraction!

 

[doctornick]

Lands are spatial experiences. Journey of Water is off to the side, physically separated from the rest of the neighborhood while also breaking the supposedly important, slightly reconstituted, parti of World Celebrate. Overstating the attraction’s scope, scale and placement are exactly the issue.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the artwork, but it looks to me that JoW is literally right next to the Seas. Like if you are standing next to the seagulls saying "mine" and you turn one way you enter to the Nemo ride and if you turn around, the entrance to JoW is right in front of you. I'm not really sure I understand how that is "physically separated" from the rest of World Nature. JoW to the Seas to the Land doesn't seem much different than walking from BTMRR to Splash to CBJ (as an example of a different land).

As to the scope and scale, I'm expecting a walk through akin to Swiss Family Treehouse or the animal trails in DAK. Nothing mindblowing, just something pretty, hopefully educational and a leisurely alternative to other attractions. I don't think anyone is expecting or describing and E-ticket (or even a C-ticket). Am I missing something here?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the artwork, but it looks to me that JoW is literally right next to the Seas. Like if you are standing next to the seagulls saying "mine" and you turn one way you enter to the Nemo ride and if you turn around, the entrance to JoW is right in front of you. I'm not really sure I understand how that is "physically separated" from the rest of World Nature. JoW to the Seas doesn't seem much different than walking from BTMRR to Splash to CBJ (as an example of a different land).

It’s where Innoventions was located. Going from the seagulls you have to go around the pond and under the monorail. That pond is a pretty decent physical separation that you have to go around. The monorail beam also creates an edge condition. There’s a reason people assumed the neighborhoods were divided by the monorail beam.

Frontierland is developed along an edge. That’s how it is organized. How is World Nature organized as space?

 

[Movielover]

It is completely, absurdly out of place. It clashes with every other element in Future World. That's why folks believed it had to be connected directly to Seas - it was the only way that its placement could be even loosely justified.

It will become another of EPCOT's many big, empty, pointless spaces, joining Odyssey and the Millennium Pavilion and Play! and the end of Imagination and etc. etc. The only difference is that this space is outdoors.

And we can make a very good guess as to its life cycle - WDW management will very quickly tire of paying for staff and upkeep at such a pointless attraction, one that doesn't move merchandise and likely won't make much of an impact on guest satisfaction or significantly dent park-wide capacity. It will be a meet-and-greet within two years (if it isn't at opening) and roped off within eight.

It's primary function is as a monument to the horribly dysfunctional development process that fueled the much-needed EPCOT redesign - the complete and overwhelming lack of vision, the indecision and second-guessing in the board room, the absence of efficient practices, the clash of CEO egos, the unimaginably over-inflated budgets, the comically self-aggrandizing PR, the ham-handed insertion of IPs. The development of "new" EPCOT would make a very funny Office style sit-com with little embellishment, and Path of Water is the punchline.

What a well formed and thought out personal opinion. Perfectly sums up my point

 

[Centauri Space Station]

It’s where Innoventions was located. Going from the seagulls you have to go around the pond and under the monorail. That pond is a pretty decent physical separation that you have to go around. The monorail beam also creates an edge condition. There’s a reason people assumed the neighborhoods were divided by the monorail beam.

Frontierland is developed along an edge. That’s how it is organized. How is World Nature organized as space?

It’s organized by pavilions that fit nature, The land and seas, with a water cycle trail in front. The paths surrounding JOW still lead to Land and Seas. Then the entrance to JOW by the seas and the other on the center path leading to the land connect them all.

 

[kalel8145]

As to the scope and scale, I'm expecting a walk through akin to Swiss Family Treehouse or the animal trails in DAK. Nothing mindblowing, just something pretty, hopefully educational and a leisurely alternative to other attractions. I don't think anyone is expecting or describing and E-ticket (or even a C-ticket). Am I missing something here?

This is what I was thinking as well. A nice little stroll through talking about the water cycle. Moana there to get the kiddos paying attention.

 

[networkpro]

It is completely, absurdly out of place. It clashes with every other element in Future World. That's why folks believed it had to be connected directly to Seas - it was the only way that its placement could be even loosely justified.

Ahem, there is no Futureworld now.

 

[Phicinfan]

This is an odd way to say, “ You were right and we were wrong and the widespread assumptions made by optimists when defending (not always politely) this addition turned out to be baseless.”

With due respect, he isn't correct. He made assumptions as did we, the early artwork as has been stated by many showed it as multiple pathways. Not until recently has it been showed to be possibly closed loop(still to be proven by the by...). Hindsight is always 20/20 as you have had the propensity to show.

This is a bit of a pattern here. Pretty much every criticism leveled consistently at GotG over the last five years has proven correct and every defense, no matter how widely accepted, has proven unfounded. Yet that is all meant to be forgotten because coaster+pop songs= fun, and that’s all we should expect from modern Disney. It’s strategic amnesia. Certain posters steadfastly refuse to remember Disney’s track record over the last twenty years and act like anyone who learns from experience is just being unfair. The past must be immediately forgotten if it’s inconvenient.

Another pattern here is some to be so pompous as to assume they know better than others..... after new information shows. Congrats!

 

[Phicinfan]

If you'll look back, my post was in response to someone attacking another poster for being correct.

It was frequently stated that this attraction fit because it was extending the themes of Nemo to the hub - it was positioned as a sort of entrance way to the pavilion. That's certainly the assumption I made. I was wrong. It's worse.

And at this point, I think we can safely discard concept art as having any relation to the finished attraction. After all, the one exciting piece of art for GotG they showed off for years and years has no connection to anything in the completed attraction.

Common on your part. I was not attacking anyone other than someone who was attempting to over promote how right they were, one post makes sense, two could even be considered support. That was the third post, that is whipping a dead horse and I stand by that statement. I will add, this area STILL fits in the region of World of Nature with what at last written will talk about and be focused ON the importance of Water and nature, near the Seas Pavillion.

 

[Phicinfan]

It is completely, absurdly out of place. It clashes with every other element in Future World. That's why folks believed it had to be connected directly to Seas - it was the only way that its placement could be even loosely justified.

As stated above there is no Future World. EPCOT has changed, not necessarily for the best either, but time to move away from that point of view.

It will become another of EPCOT's many big, empty, pointless spaces, joining Odyssey and the Millennium Pavilion and Play! and the end of Imagination and etc. etc. The only difference is that this space is outdoors.

Good grief, are you not one who was stating you miss the edutainment of Epcot? This doesn't meet that now since its a closed loop?

And we can make a very good guess as to its life cycle - WDW management will very quickly tire of paying for staff and upkeep at such a pointless attraction, one that doesn't move merchandise and likely won't make much of an impact on guest satisfaction or significantly dent park-wide capacity. It will be a meet-and-greet within two years (if it isn't at opening) and roped off within eight.

Your ability to make statements as fact on your own personal conjecture is amazing.

It's primary function is as a monument to the horribly dysfunctional development process that fueled the much-needed EPCOT redesign - the complete and overwhelming lack of vision, the indecision and second-guessing in the board room, the absence of efficient practices, the clash of CEO egos, the unimaginably over-inflated budgets, the comically self-aggrandizing PR, the ham-handed insertion of IPs. The development of "new" EPCOT would make a very funny Office style sit-com with little embellishment, and Path of Water is the punchline.

I won't ever deny the new design of EPCOT is faulty, to that I fully agree with you. I also don't question any here who can't understand the mish mash that is now EPCOT. I however, refuse to immediately jump to the conclusion that it is all bad until it is completed and I see for myself what the final product is. I get such a kick out of this site, in that any change immediately is raked over the coals by a few individuals here, and then after some time the complete issue goes away once the attraction opens. Have a bit of patience, this might just work out.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Maybe I'm missing the last point. This replaced a large building that could have held a lot of things. I'd argue a repurposed CC Northwest could have been much, much better.

If your point is comparing this to the neverending, empty "wall-ville" Epcot has become, then yes. But, I would argue flat concrete would be better than that.

My personal opinion, Innovations west should have never been leveled. The could have gutted it and just put something "innovative" in it.
The fountain of nations should have been simply updated with modern tech including water screens to project on.

I think the REAL reasons they leveled Innovations West was:
1. To save costs; no need to AC that huge space; The bean counters say, we used to cool both Innovation West and Innovation East, if we get rid of one, we cut cooling costs in half!
2. There may have been something going on under Innovation West? And they needed to address it anyway?
3. The cheap walk through Moana attraction is PC, and it's a IP, and will be cheap to maintain.

I initially said Moana is better than nothing, I will say its better than the walls we have been staring at for years..

 

[lazyboy97o]

My personal opinion, Innovations west should have never been leveled. The could have gutted it and just put something "innovative" in it.
The fountain of nations should have been simply updated with modern tech including water screens to project on.

I think the REAL reasons they leveled Innovations West was:
1. To save costs; no need to AC that huge space; The bean counters say, we used to cool both Innovation West and Innovation East, if we get rid of one, we cut cooling costs in half!
2. There may have been something going on under Innovation West? And they needed to address it anyway?
3. The cheap walk through Moana attraction is PC, and it's a IP, and will be cheap to maintain.

I initially said Moana is better than nothing, I will say its better than the walls we have been staring at for years..

They tore down CommuniCore West to make room for the starchitect designed Festival Center. That’s it. Journey of Water is and always was filler to fill in a bit of the space left over.

 

[Disstevefan1]

They tore down CommuniCore West to make room for the starchitect designed Festival Center. That’s it. Journey of Water is and always was filler to fill in a bit of the space left over.

Got it. Thanks. I am glad COVID killed the Festival center, I never liked the look of it.
I never liked the idea of Moana there, it seems out of place.
I will be happy when “EPCOT’s Journey of walls” are finally down in two or three years from now…