Josh D'Amaro comments on rising prices and "additional" or removed services: "An inevitable result of progress"

[Andrew C]

Does it matter that the equivalent rack rate of a "deluxe" WDW resort room is at minium 2-4 times as much?

Not really TBH.

And just so we are clear. I dislike parking fees. I dislike resort fees. I do feel like it is nickel and diming. 100%. But I am not on board being fine with everyone else doing it and only calling out disney because "they are supposed to be different" or something like that.

 

[monothingie]

Not really TBH.

 

[Andrew C]

Based on your posts, I surmise it means to "fleece our customers just like everyone else is doing."

Frankly...yes.

And just so we are clear. I dislike parking fees. I dislike resort fees. I do feel like it is nickel and diming. 100%. But I am not on board being fine with everyone else doing it and only calling out disney because "they are supposed to be different" or something like that.

 

[larryz]

Frankly...yes.

Well, that's not competition -- that's collusion.

 

[Andrew C]

You can get free parking at the majority of Hampton Inns and Fairfield Inns paying rates like $100 bucks a night. But down the road at a Marriott or Hilton where you are paying $250+, they have a parking fee. The rate doesn't matter.

 

[UNCgolf]

American giants have fallen before. I always point to the ridiculous decline of Kodak…but there are others.

One that is legendary is in downward collapse now that I can think of…

It’s not “impossible” as many fans dismiss without considering…

Sears is the biggest one IMO, and it was mainly due to terrible management decisions -- which should be remembered by people who seem to think management always knows what they're doing, make the correct choice, and should never be questioned.

Disney isn't comparable to Sears in in multiple ways, and there's almost no chance Disney completely collapses like Sears did, but it's certainly possible for Disney management to make a string of poor decisions that causes significant hardship.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

This seems to be the dilemma they are facing. Should the parks be cheap and overcrowded or expensive but manageable.

The problem is they’re neither, they are now expensive and overcrowded and the crowd schemes like Genie+ and ILL are no better at crowd control than the previously free FP.

I 100% agree with the concept of raising prices to decrease crowds and provide a better experience, but that’s not what’s happening at Disney, we’re getting a worse experience at a higher price.

 

[UNCgolf]

What major resort style hotel doesn’t charge you for parking? Other than a roadside courtyard marriot, every major hotel I have ever stayed at charges for parking, separate from your room fee. This includes Marriot World Resort and JW Marriot Bonnet Creek in Orlando. How is doing what every other major hotel does nickel and diming anyone?

Most hotels that charge for parking typically do so because the supply is very limited (this isn't true 100% of the time, of course). Disney resorts generally don't have that problem.

 

[Andrew C]

Most hotels that charge for parking typically do so because the supply is very limited

In 2022, 2019, 2018...this just isn't accurate at all. Those days are long gone. Hence the nickel and diming that guests, including myself, feel when they get hit with additional fees. Because maybe 20 years ago, these fees like parking fees, weren't all there. It sucks.

 

[Andrew C]

and provide a better experience

This!

 

[UNCgolf]

In 2022, 2019, 2018...this just isn't accurate at all. Those days are long gone. Hence the nickel and diming that guests, including myself, feel when they get hit with additional fees. Because maybe 20 years ago, these fees like parking fees, weren't all there. It sucks.

It is, though. The only places that tend to charge for parking are located in major metropolitan areas (or smaller, busy resort areas) where parking is generally at a premium. Hotels nearly everywhere else still offer free parking (and even some hotels in major metro areas still do; there's a Marriott just down the street from me in Atlanta that has complimentary parking).

 

[LSLS]

I think it's pretty obvious that the decisions being made now are part of their long term plans. It's important to remember that these people working on these strategies, spend 40+ hours a week learning and understanding how the parks operate, with data we don't have access to, and on a level that none of us here can probably even comprehend.



Yes, going to a Disney park can be a terribly stressful experience today, and yes it can impact the desire of people to return. Disney knows this and has stated as such.

But the only real way to correct for this, is to start bringing attendance down. You have 20 million people going to a park (and with a business model) that was designed in the 1970s to accommodate half as many people. Raising prices might seem like a detriment today, but if it reduces the crowds and reduces the stress of a visit, it will be worth it in the long term.

I disagree with a lot here. I don't think they are thinking long term plans all that often. I think the top priority is constantly that next quarterly report. If they can make something matter for the future, that's fine, but all they want is that next record setting number.

I also disagree with all your attendance stuff. Obviously, I'm on the opposite side where I say attendance is an issue because of the amount of rides they have to offer, not because the volume of people. But if Disney really cared about the crowds, they wouldn't do what they do. They wouldn't take 5-6 years to build a ride. Or 6 months to paint one. They wouldn't charge for fast pass (multiple charges at that). If attendance was an issue, they could EASILY set a limit on the number of people they let into the parks. Heck, I'd argue convoluting the price of a ticket is even evidence that it's not to decrease attendance.

I also think the crowded parks are only part of the story. I've been to the parks DOZENS of times. I have no idea how to navigate everything there at this point. I don't know what a ticket will cost, how much genie will cost, when/if it will be needed, or what will be closed because they don't want to staff it. Sure, I could look some of that up, but you are talking about someone who has been a TON of times at this point that can't even really advise friends on basic things. That's not to even discuss things like needing reservations for parks (meaning I can't just pick a different park if say it's a rainy day and I want one that we do more indoor things) or having to know the precise time you can hop if you paid all that money for that right. I don't even know how long a wait will be because those numbers have been made so inaccurate. Stress is not just the crowds, it's the crowds combined with the insane amount of research you need to constantly be doing throughout your trip. It's having to set an alarm for 7:00 AM to try and get lucky to ride the new ride (or 1:00 PM if you are lucky). It's purchasing the fancy Fast Pass replacement to find out it only gets you into 1 ride you really care about, and you need to pay more for others.

 

[monothingie]

You can get free parking at the majority of Hampton Inns and Fairfield Inns paying rates like $100 bucks a night. But down the road at a Marriott or Hilton where you are paying $250+, they have a parking fee. The rate doesn't matter.

Now do the Grand Floridan, Polynesian, or Contemporary where you're paying $800/night.

 

[Andrew C]

The only places that tend to charge for parking are located in major metropolitan areas.

Which now include vast suburbs where limited space and parking are not an issue. I point to this below, at this is where the free/not free split is for the most part (unless you're city center, then all bets are off).

You can get free parking at the majority of Hampton Inns and Fairfield Inns paying rates like $100 bucks a night. But down the road at a Marriott or Hilton where you are paying $250+, they have a parking fee.

 

[John park hopper]

Most hotels that charge for parking typically do so because the supply is very limited (this isn't true 100% of the time, of course). Disney resorts generally don't have that problem.

Those resort parking lots have been payed for more than once over the years, Was at POFQ in 2019 (paid for parking) and the lot was empty supply exceeds the demand. We are beating a dead horse when the parking fees were announced there were pages and pages of comments. Disney is gonna do what they want and the guest be
______ not allowed to say

 

[Andrew C]

Now do the Grand Floridan, Polynesian, or Contemporary where you're paying $800/night.

I can do $1000 hotel rooms in Los Angeles (not city center) where they charge for parking as well. Rate doesn't matter. I hate it, but that is reality.

 

[HoustonHorn]

If the alternative was to raise hotel rates for everyone, doesn't it make some sense to target the prices increases to only those that drive vehicles onto the property?

Is it really fair to pass on price increases for things like road maintenance projects, vehicle services and emergency support to ALL guests rather than those that are actually using those services?

Are you also in favor of a pool fee? If I don't use Disney pools, so why should that be built into the cost of my room?

How about transportation fees? If I rent a car and don't use the monorail/buses/Skyliner, why should I cover transportation costs for everyone?

What about a credit card reader in the lobby restrooms? Or a fee to uncover the art in the lobbies?

The nickel and diming creep is strong with current management. Just because a fee doesn't affect you doesn't make it right.

 

[Andrew C]

Are you also in favor of a pool fee? If I don't use Disney pools, so why should that be built into the cost of my room?

How about transportation fees? If I rent a car and don't use the monorail/buses/Skyliner, why should I cover transportation costs for everyone?

What about a credit card reader in the lobby restrooms? Or a fee to uncover the art in the lobbies?

The nickel and diming creep is strong with current management. Just because a fee doesn't affect you doesn't make it right.

Fees suck. I don't think anyone enjoys paying a mandatory resort fee filled with services and amenities that they will never use.

 

[Grumpy4196]

Both, depending on the context/situation.
As I said, hotels in the area have stepped up their game despite these fees. It isn't 1980 anymore...

I shouldn't expect Disney hotels to offer me free parking just because "its Disney." That isn't a good reason in this particular market.

Why not? It wasn't an issue the first 45 years.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

It is, though. The only places that tend to charge for parking are located in major metropolitan areas (or smaller, busy resort areas) where parking is generally at a premium. Hotels nearly everywhere else still offer free parking (and even some hotels in major metro areas still do; there's a Marriott just down the street from me in Atlanta that has complimentary parking).

And how does Orlando, one of it not the top vacation destination in the US, not fit into major metropolitan area and/or busy resort area? The non-Disney affiliated resorts like Marriot World, JW Marriot, Swan, Dolphin, the other hotels in Bonnett Creek all charge for parking. Why would Disney not charge for parking for its resort guests?

I could even argue (not that I think I need to, as charging a fee for something that the rest of the industry around your charges for doesn't need argument) that its fairer now to charge resort guests for parking. In the past anyone driving a vehicle to the parks had to pay for parking, why shouldn't people who are using Disney infrastructure and Driving on property not have to pay? They don't hit you double, if you are charged for parking at the resort, you aren't charged for parking at the parks, but now everyone who takes a car and parks on Disney property pays.