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Joe Rohde and the creation of Disney's Animal Kingdom

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
This image is for the naysayers who have insisted Beastly Kingdomme was never actually planned:

http://www.laughingplace.com/ShowPic.asp?Filename=files/TFLPDak/big/Z0009.jpg&caption=

Yeah, the roller coaster would have been amazing. :cry:

Rohde's very generic, politically-safe comment regarding Beastly Kingdomme is disappointing, but it's fun to read his comment when a picture of the planned land is right above the paragraph. ;)

I really wonder are there people who actually say BK was never planned?

How clueless can you be?

They released artwork in the original press kits (I know as I have one ... or more) ... they had a model in the old Walt Disney Story Theater, I believe too. The design team did interviews talking about it when the park was announced in 1995.

And did anyone think the dragon in the park's logo was just there for fun?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the insight, WDW1974. I'm not sure that his occupation has any impact on the quality of the piece - but if that is how he gets access then power to him. I was amazed at the level of artwork that appears to be given to Tales - stuff I've never seen elsewhere. Their dedicated website has copious quantities of original artwork that I presume is in the publication:

http://www.talesfromthelaughingplace.com

And I guess he must be someone to have both friends and enemies at WDI. :ROFLOL:

I dunno about that. ... He often hangs around/pals around with many top Imagineers and park execs and one would think that has helped a great deal in simply getting Tales off the ground. Hell, even the timing -- Tales began right after The Disney Magazine suddenly shut down -- was quite fortuitous.

That's taking nothing away from Lee or the job he ... and his partner Lindsay (who does amazing work with the photos, art and layout) do.

But one wonders if you or I or anyone else wanted to start a publication like Tales if we'd get the cooperation, accesss ... and, yeah, the kewl artwork, that Lee has. Disney isn't the most coopertaive company to deal with ... and paranoia runs deep in the exec suites.

I wonder if he knows he's being talked about so glowingly here. I really don't want to swell his head ... we've had some knockdown, dragouts in our online time before (for instance he enjoys DCA more than TDS, something that blows my mind but I respect his right to be ... uhm ... ah ... NUTS!):D
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Pretty cool, huh? I guess it ties into his earlier comment that you have to trade stuff on and off the menu when you are trying to build a theme park. They gave up the walk-through in the Tree of Life for the theater and took out the ampitheater (which would have been a great spot) for the Flame Tree BBQ. I guess I've never head imagineers talk like that to "the public" before. I guess that ties into WDW1974's comment.

I actually really liked that comment because it does show how the birth of a theme park is a fluid, flowing type process ... almost like the way a tree or a plant develops.

And it's really funny because I actually had a discussion with Joe once, years ago, while seated at the Flame Tree BBQ and mentioned something to the effect of 'this would have been a nice place for a theater or something on the water' and he said something about how you never know and he had that gleam in his eyes. I thought he meant in the future. I had no idea that was the original plan until reading Lee's piece.

Of course there are other details that often get left out too ... for instance the resturant in/near the ToL was killed largely because RC wanted to have the only full serve location at DAK and Eisner knew it would save a lot of money, by not putting in one run by Disney.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
I really wonder are there people who actually say BK was never planned?

YES. Some people who haven't been here in a while used to insist BK was nothing more than a fanboy pipe dream. Of course, these were the same members who dismissed reports of the Crystal Arts store, SSE sponsorship, PI closing, (initial) Space Mt. plans, and other legitimate rumors as lies.

How clueless can you be?

They released artwork in the original press kits (I know as I have one ... or more) ... they had a model in the old Walt Disney Story Theater, I believe too. The design team did interviews talking about it when the park was announced in 1995.

And did anyone think the dragon in the park's logo was just there for fun?

Yeah, I had one of those press kits, but I can't find it. :mad:
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Of course there are other details that often get left out too ... for instance the resturant in/near the ToL was killed largely because RC wanted to have the only full serve location at DAK and Eisner knew it would save a lot of money, by not putting in one run by Disney.

...And now we also have the Yak and Yeti, which holds the distinction of being one of the worst-reviewed Orlando restaurants in the Sentinal. :hurl:
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
I wonder if he knows he's being talked about so glowingly here. I really don't want to swell his head ... we've had some knockdown, dragouts in our online time before (for instance he enjoys DCA more than TDS, something that blows my mind but I respect his right to be ... uhm ... ah ... NUTS!):D

:eek:


*passes out*
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Does nobody on this forum know what the multi-quote icon is for?

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=51376
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4 Park Central

Member
Original Poster
I dunno about that. ... He often hangs around/pals around with many top Imagineers and park execs and one would think that has helped a great deal in simply getting Tales off the ground. Hell, even the timing -- Tales began right after The Disney Magazine suddenly shut down -- was quite fortuitous.

That's taking nothing away from Lee or the job he ... and his partner Lindsay (who does amazing work with the photos, art and layout) do.

But one wonders if you or I or anyone else wanted to start a publication like Tales if we'd get the cooperation, accesss ... and, yeah, the kewl artwork, that Lee has. Disney isn't the most coopertaive company to deal with ... and paranoia runs deep in the exec suites.

I wonder if he knows he's being talked about so glowingly here. I really don't want to swell his head ... we've had some knockdown, dragouts in our online time before (for instance he enjoys DCA more than TDS, something that blows my mind but I respect his right to be ... uhm ... ah ... NUTS!):D

I can't imagine that anyone would be surprised that Disney is a personality-driven company. I would have anticipated that if you are liked as an individual you are more likely to succeed. I guess I would be interested to know how he forged those relationships in the first place. The latest issue of the magazine has an extensive interview with Jay Rasulo of all people - and I've always been led to believe he had little time for any fansites at all. From what others have told me the interview is very insightful - completely different to any other Jay interview that my friend has encountered. So I guess everyone from Jay down has faith and trust that Lee and the Tales team are able to convey their stories accurately. I googled some reviews of the magazine and it definitely seems to have a large fanbase - some have criticized the fact that it isn't critical of Disney in any way but I guess that is the whole point - it is supposed to celebrate the Disney product. The magazine doesn't seem to have many reviews of note which I guess gives them the freedom to allow the creative folks to tell their stories and allow others to reach their own conclusions.

I wonder what most imagineers think of either this individual or the magazine. There is a big difference between someone "hanging around" and "pal-ing around" with someone else. The former can be just to be polite and the latter demonstrates clear friendships. I guess the company as a whole is either willing to tolerate or outright supports the magazine - that tone can only come from the top.

Either way it seems that the magazine offers something that no-one else either inside or outside the company can do. It is just sad that Disney itself doesn't feel the need to have its own publication to champion their creative efforts.
 

4 Park Central

Member
Original Poster
Don't know him.:shrug:
Know who he is and the depth of his information resources. Top. Notch.

Seen him. Had him pointed out to me once.

If that is the case then it is interesting that he isn't as "visible" on the 'net as someone like Jim Hill or Al Lutz. I hadn't come across the name properly until it was posted earlier in this thread (although I guess I had come across it on Laughingplace at some point in the past) so I can only guess that he prefers to be anonymous or keep his information close to his chest. It would certainly be refreshing to have someone as a voice on the 'net that didn't have a giant ego! :animwink:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Don't know him.:shrug:
Know who he is and the depth of his information resources. Top. Notch.

Seen him. Had him pointed out to me once.

I sat with him ... once ... at a table at a Disney media party/announcement in Anaheim. I didn't know who he was at the time and we weren't introduced, which likely was for the best.

As to the depth of his resources ... or sources, well it helps when you get paychecks from The Mouse.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I can't imagine that anyone would be surprised that Disney is a personality-driven company. I would have anticipated that if you are liked as an individual you are more likely to succeed. I guess I would be interested to know how he forged those relationships in the first place.

I'd be interested in a lot of that too. But Lee isn't one to talk about his personal life/dealings with anyone at Disney. I understand why.

The latest issue of the magazine has an extensive interview with Jay Rasulo of all people - and I've always been led to believe he had little time for any fansites at all. From what others have told me the interview is very insightful - completely different to any other Jay interview that my friend has encountered.

Yeah. I am well aware of the interview. When I called Lee on a few points regarding Disney's struggles to reach deals with Chinese officials on expansion of HKDL and the development of Shanghai DL (not to mention difficulties of other business units there largely due to the government's distrust of the Mouse and his minions) Lee was able to pull a quote from Jay out of his hat on an 'independent' fan site to try and refute what I had said. I couldn't help but think it was because I had hit a nerve and that Lee had a direct line to Jay.

Now ... maybe that is impressive to you, but I like my independent Disney fan sites to be just that. Not mouthpieces for the head of P&R, who is widely disliked throughout TWDC for the way he runs the parks and how little regard he actually has for them.

Don't you think it's a bit strange that Jay would allign himself with any fan site at all? And isn't that what giving an 'exclusive' interview to LP.com in fact does?

So I guess everyone from Jay down has faith and trust that Lee and the Tales team are able to convey their stories accurately. I googled some reviews of the magazine and it definitely seems to have a large fanbase - some have criticized the fact that it isn't critical of Disney in any way but I guess that is the whole point - it is supposed to celebrate the Disney product. The magazine doesn't seem to have many reviews of note which I guess gives them the freedom to allow the creative folks to tell their stories and allow others to reach their own conclusions.

Spreading it on just a bit thick, maybe?

I haven't seen any stories lauding the developement of DCA or DSP in Tales. I haven't seen any of the original artwork created for HKDL -- back before they cut one third of the park out of the opening day plans (just try and find one original park rendering!) I haven't seen stories that question the rampant cartooning of Disney parks and the watering down of the amazing work the original Imagineers did to begin with.

I'm not trying to take shots at Lee or Tales. I've raised many of the above points on his own site.

I wonder what most imagineers think of either this individual or the magazine. There is a big difference between someone "hanging around" and "pal-ing around" with someone else. The former can be just to be polite and the latter demonstrates clear friendships. I guess the company as a whole is either willing to tolerate or outright supports the magazine - that tone can only come from the top.

I can tell you for a fact that many in Imagineering enjoy the publication. Of course Disney long ago shut down the inhouse 'WD-Eye' publication that was great ... and often quite irreverent.

But just like Lee has people who love him in Glendale, he has people who feel the opposite.

And I am sure the publication is supported at the highest levels of Imagineering ...not to mention by Jay Rasulo himself.

Now whether that is something to be proud of is another matter.

No matter what Lee writes, in some circles he'll be viewed with suspicion because you can never be truly 'independent' when writing and reporting on a company that you need to keep happy to make the money that has you living a certain lifestyle.

And, believe it or not, I believe with Lee on far more than we disagree.

Although to be fair, since this is a WDW-focused website, he has a very disinterested 'tude about the resort in large part except DAK. He has said many times he doesn't care how stale the MK is because the money is better spent elsewhere. He also has justified much of the WalMarting at EPCOT because his pet Imagineers are behind those 'changes.'


Either way it seems that the magazine offers something that no-one else either inside or outside the company can do. It is just sad that Disney itself doesn't feel the need to have its own publication to champion their creative efforts.

Agreed.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
If that is the case then it is interesting that he isn't as "visible" on the 'net as someone like Jim Hill or Al Lutz. I hadn't come across the name properly until it was posted earlier in this thread (although I guess I had come across it on Laughingplace at some point in the past) so I can only guess that he prefers to be anonymous or keep his information close to his chest. It would certainly be refreshing to have someone as a voice on the 'net that didn't have a giant ego! :animwink:

You need to look elsewhere if you're searching for some nobleman who has inside ties to Disney sans ego.

Lee's ego is every bit as big as those other online personalities. Maybe even bigger because of his 'connections.'

Now, I like him better because while he spins frequently he doesn't out and out lie (like that NH dude) and he actually particpates in discussions ... Lutz doesn't even partake in discussions about his own columns on his own discussion boards.
 

kcnole

Well-Known Member
Lutz does respond from time to time on his own columns. He and I had a huge argument about one of his unfair columns regarding WDW and he responded. He doesn't always respond but he will from time to time.
 

Lee

Adventurer
Now, I like him better because while he spins frequently he doesn't out and out lie...

Yeah, you gotta give that to Lee Mac. If he doesn't have something positive to say, he generally says nothing.
I remember somebody over on LP, months ago, flat out asking him by name what was up with MK's Space Mtn.
The response? Br'er Lee....he lay low.

Not me, of course....that other one...
 

4 Park Central

Member
Original Poster
I'd be interested in a lot of that too. But Lee isn't one to talk about his personal life/dealings with anyone at Disney. I understand why.



Yeah. I am well aware of the interview. When I called Lee on a few points regarding Disney's struggles to reach deals with Chinese officials on expansion of HKDL and the development of Shanghai DL (not to mention difficulties of other business units there largely due to the government's distrust of the Mouse and his minions) Lee was able to pull a quote from Jay out of his hat on an 'independent' fan site to try and refute what I had said. I couldn't help but think it was because I had hit a nerve and that Lee had a direct line to Jay.

Now ... maybe that is impressive to you, but I like my independent Disney fan sites to be just that. Not mouthpieces for the head of P&R, who is widely disliked throughout TWDC for the way he runs the parks and how little regard he actually has for them.

Agreed - I don't think it is impressive - ultimately it is Jay's job to be the public figurehead for WDP&R. However I've never seen him openly engaged with any fan site or publication so the fact that he did so for them is an indicator (in the very least) that they have respect. I will disagree with your point about needing fansites to be independent. None of the sites out there are trying to be the New York Times or Washington Post - impartiality isn't necessary.

Don't you think it's a bit strange that Jay would allign himself with any fan site at all? And isn't that what giving an 'exclusive' interview to LP.com in fact does?

I'm not sure I would describe an interview as an alignment. It is just an acknowledgement that he prefers (or his people do) LP.com. Arguably LP.com is the only US-based fansite out there that attempts to cover all of the five resorts. Their Tokyo stuff is often very impressive. I guess the fact that they are pro-WDP&R (that is the product rather than their management) also helps. The likes of Al Lutz and Jim Hill all have their schtick - but they are ultimately glorified blogs so are as opinionated. Nothing wrong with that - they just have their personas to preserve. Hill isn't even a good writer - at least you know where you are with Lutz.

Spreading it on just a bit thick, maybe?

I haven't seen any stories lauding the developement of DCA or DSP in Tales. I haven't seen any of the original artwork created for HKDL -- back before they cut one third of the park out of the opening day plans (just try and find one original park rendering!) I haven't seen stories that question the rampant cartooning of Disney parks and the watering down of the amazing work the original Imagineers did to begin with.

I'm not trying to take shots at Lee or Tales. I've raised many of the above points on his own site.

I wonder if it is just that there isn't a story to tell there? I'd be interested if he did comment on your points.

I can tell you for a fact that many in Imagineering enjoy the publication. Of course Disney long ago shut down the inhouse 'WD-Eye' publication that was great ... and often quite irreverent.

But just like Lee has people who love him in Glendale, he has people who feel the opposite.

And I am sure the publication is supported at the highest levels of Imagineering ...not to mention by Jay Rasulo himself.

Now whether that is something to be proud of is another matter.

This is where I just don't understand the political beast that is WDI. Here is someone that is helping to communicate why things are the way there are and he is hated for it? It must be my naiviety that I think people should just do their job and not interfere with others things especially outside parties. If they are communicating their hatred to you then you would hope it would be deserved. It just sounds like such a black-or-white organization - no gray areas at all.

No matter what Lee writes, in some circles he'll be viewed with suspicion because you can never be truly 'independent' when writing and reporting on a company that you need to keep happy to make the money that has you living a certain lifestyle.

Again I'm not sure I understand why he needs to be independent. I could understand it if he was pedalling some agenda but it appears he just lets folks talk about their projects.

And, believe it or not, I believe with Lee on far more than we disagree.

Although to be fair, since this is a WDW-focused website, he has a very disinterested 'tude about the resort in large part except DAK. He has said many times he doesn't care how stale the MK is because the money is better spent elsewhere. He also has justified much of the WalMarting at EPCOT because his pet Imagineers are behind those 'changes.'

By looking at the back issues of the mag I noticed that WDW coverage was less than the other 4. I guess that is symptomatic of the fact that investment in the past decade has been lacking at WDW except for Everest. The MK continues to draw huge audiences so I can understand from a business POV if the investment should go elsewhere. Epcot was dying on its feet in the mid-90s. The decision was taken to banish the edutainment aspect as it wasn't meeting guests' expectations of a WDW vacation. I still think that a hybrid between the original concept and a more theme park-y attraction roster would have been better. But there is enough of the old Epcot to keep me interested.
 

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