Jim Hill kicked out of Disneyland!

AEfx

Well-Known Member
LOL yes, Hill is trying to make a big deal about it.

He wants to make himself a martyr.

He knows he isn't a real Disney insider, so he's embracing making himself an "outsider".

Just sad if you ask me. To anyone with 1/2 a brain it's obvious - Disney isn't going to let you charge people to come into the park and trash them, OR to compete with their tours. It's very simple.

Would you allow someone to come onto your property and give tours, paid or not, that didn't paint you in the most flattering light?

Case closed. Except for ol' Jim Hill - I'm sure he'll try to milk this for every drop. That's what hangers-on like himself are prone to do.

AEfx
 

Chernabog

New Member
Original Poster
Sorry for the old news. Should have done a forum search first I guess. Figured it was new since it was posted on CNN today. Oh well :rolleyes: Still interesting though.
 

DisneyMarg

Member
What about those tour groups that walk around following someone with a flag or a Mickey hand on a pole? Isn't that tour leader doing the same thing? Or do those tour leaders work for Disney?
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
LOL yes, Hill is trying to make a big deal about it.

He wants to make himself a martyr.

He knows he isn't a real Disney insider, so he's embracing making himself an "outsider".

Just sad if you ask me. To anyone with 1/2 a brain it's obvious - Disney isn't going to let you charge people to come into the park and trash them, OR to compete with their tours. It's very simple.

Would you allow someone to come onto your property and give tours, paid or not, that didn't paint you in the most flattering light?

Case closed. Except for ol' Jim Hill - I'm sure he'll try to milk this for every drop. That's what hangers-on like himself are prone to do.

AEfx

Sorry to repeat myself from the other thread, but I'll just hit two highlights.

1: Unless you know the body of Jim Hill's text on his tour, it's unfair to say he was "trashing" Disney. From what I understand, he was talking about things that used to exist (and where) and rides/attractions that never got off the ground and why. Maybe it's not the "magic" you normally associate with Disney, but not exactly insulting or inflammatory either.

2: From what I heard (and since I never took the tour, I take "what I heard" with a grain of salt), Jim's tour was filled with info you were never going to get on any other tour, so therefore, it wouldn't interfere with Disney's bottom line at all. If he were only regurgitating the official Disney tour shpiel, and charging less and thus undercutting Disney (and I understand that's what many other tours do), I'd be more inclined to understandwhy Disney would shut him up. But anyone taking Jim's tour was probably more interested in understanding the nuts-and-bolts history of the park than the whimsical aspect of the park. If anything, Disney should consider a more mature business-oriented style tour of that park to cater to that audience.

But the bottom line is, Disney has the right to decide if people's in-park behavior is disruptive or damaging and I respect that. I don't agree with their decision, but understand it's their decision to make.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
slappy magoo said:
1: Unless you know the body of Jim Hill's text on his tour, it's unfair to say he was "trashing" Disney. From what I understand, he was talking about things that used to exist (and where) and rides/attractions that never got off the ground and why. Maybe it's not the "magic" you normally associate with Disney, but not exactly insulting or inflammatory either.

And as *I* clearly explained in that thread, it does not matter. It is unoffical information and yes, indeed, can be considered negative - telling people about something that might have happened but never did because of budget cuts, etc. To fans like ourselves it may not be inflammatory, but to the people who create it it is. There are no degrees of negative here - there is information Disney wants publicly presented in the parks and information they do not. To many guests who don't frequent Disney sites, yes, being told that there was this great attraction you will never see is negative.

slappy magoo said:
2: From what I heard (and since I never took the tour, I take "what I heard" with a grain of salt), Jim's tour was filled with info you were never going to get on any other tour, so therefore, it wouldn't interfere with Disney's bottom line at all. If he were only regurgitating the official Disney tour shpiel, and charging less and thus undercutting Disney (and I understand that's what many other tours do), I'd be more inclined to understandwhy Disney would shut him up. But anyone taking Jim's tour was probably more interested in understanding the nuts-and-bolts history of the park than the whimsical aspect of the park. If anything, Disney should consider a more mature business-oriented style tour of that park to cater to that audience.

The content differences are irrelevant. He is giving paid tours. Just like the Disney rep said, it's like coming to Disneyland and setting up a T-shirt shop in the park. It doesn't matter if you sell T-shirts that you can't get there, it's still the fact that you are selling the same type of product.

It's very very cut and dry. Jim Hill would like you to believe otherwise. He was operating a business in Disneyland that was unauthorized that gave information that Disney did not want someone to get paid to give in THEIR park. And now Jim Hill is using it to elevate himself above "blogger".

It doesn't give his speculative and source-less stories any more weight in my eyes. It's like he has a computer program that spits them out their content is typically so generic he has to try to create a stir to get people to read. Jim Hill WISHES he was a figure in Disney history - and this is his big attempt at becoming it through martyrdom.

People can defend him all they want, but the simple fact is : he was wrong, any way you cut it. And it's quite amusing to see him attempt to make better of it - but man, I'll tell you, I would NOT be proud of the fact that I got kicked out of Disneyland. I'd be so ashamed - being told I wasn't welcome (even temporarily) in the happiest place on earth wouldn't tell me "hey I should try to sell CDs to make money now!", it would tell me maybe I should rethink my relationship to the mouse.

Jim Hill doesn't have that much sense - he just sees it as a money making opportunity and a way to make himself an anti-hero. Ego, ego, ego. Strip away the annoying writing style, the warmed-over stories, and the very few actual sources he cites - and that's really all Jim Hill is.

AEfx
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
Without getting into too many arguments, there's one point Disney makes (and AEfx repeats) that I consider nonsensical:
AEfx said:
The content differences are irrelevant. He is giving paid tours. Just like the Disney rep said, it's like coming to Disneyland and setting up a T-shirt shop in the park. It doesn't matter if you sell T-shirts that you can't get there, it's still the fact that you are selling the same type of product.

AEfx

I find there to be a HUGE difference between paying someone for information, opinion, or a combination of the two, and paying someone for a tangible product. With a t-shirt, you're dealing with (at least) 2 clear violations of the law--copyright infringment, and solicitation on private property. You could possibly also add selling merchandise without a license. That's much different than what Jim Hill was doing.

Again, I can understand Disney refusing anyone the right to conduct paid tours on their property-really, that's the only rationale they need. But their rationale that it's like selling bootleg merch is ludicrous. I'd go one step further and say if Jim Hill was telling baldfaced lies instead of just telling "tales out of school," Disney could (and should) sue him for libel or slander. But that won't happen, and it's not because Jim Hill is small taters or they don't want to sensationalize the issue, but because he wasn't saying anything that wasn't true, just stuff that Disney would rather not have the public know, and certainly not have the public learn it while in Disneyland. But unless it's confidential information that could damage the corporation unduly if made public, Disney really can't quash that distribution of information (except, of course, on their property).
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
slappy magoo said:
Without getting into too many arguments, there's one point Disney makes (and AEfx repeats) that I consider nonsensical:

Well, not everyone has the same level of common sense, I guess. ;)

You are looking WAY too deeply into this - numbers of copyrights broken, etc.

A T-shirt and a tour are both products - one is tangible and you can take home with you, one is not. In both cases, you are paying for content, with a T-shirt the only different is that you are also paying for the materials/etc. That doesn't change the fact that selling any product on private property not authorized by the owner is illegal.

If you look outside the box, it is a very accurate and clear analogy.

AEfx
 

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