It's time for Fantasmic!... to end.

TROR

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Let's face it, Fantasmic sucks now. There's some good stuff like the dragon, but ever since the new version premiered it has lost its charm. The original (post 2009) was a perfect nighttime spectacular with a great flow, great set pieces, and had memorable music and dialogue. A lot of it remains, like the aforementioned dragon and the Mark Twain at the end, but having Pirates of the Caribbean replace Peter Pan was a huge mistake that completely kills the energy of the show. The dull, drab colors of the new Pirates segment is depressing, the dialogue is atrocious, and the entire thing makes no sense. Then there's also the new additions such as The Lion King and Aladdin that really don't flow very well. Even the new music for Pink Elephants isn't as good. Of course there's also the removal of the wonderful Pinocchio puppets and of Snow White which also harms the flow of the show. Anyways, point is Fantasmic 2.0 sucks compared to the original even though it's probably still the best of the three versions.

Besides just not being as good anymore, the show started in 1992. It's 26 years old. Sure, the technology has been updated and so has now the show itself, but that's still too long for a theme park show, in my honest opinion, no matter how good it is. I liked the Aladdin musical at DCA which had a lifespan of half that and even then I felt that show should've ended earlier than it did. I'd much prefer a brand new show entirely than this weird mish mash, hodge podge version of the show currently going on, but even that's still not ideal.

The absolute biggest reason why I want Fantasmic to end is Galaxy's Edge is opening next year and that's going to bring in the crowds. Night time at the Disneyland Resort is already a complete pain and I don't even want to imagine next summer's crowds trying to squeeze through Frontierland and the Hub. That's not the only crowd issue relating to Fantasmic, though. Because of Fantasmic, the Mark Twain, the Sailing Ship Colombia, Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes, and Tom Sawyer Island all have to close at 5:45. Assuming the park closes at midnight, that's about six hours that four attractions are down. Both the Sailing Ship Columbia and the Mark Twain have a capacity of around 300, at 12 minutes a ride each, that's 1500 passengers an hour per ship. Times the six hours and double because two ships, that's 18,000 guests. Not as significant, but both canoes total 40 riders with an estimated 12 minute trip totaling in at 200 passengers an hour and 1,200 guests. That's already 19,200 guests that, hypothetically, wouldn't be in the walkways if not for Fantasmic, all not to mention the hundreds of guests that can be on Tom Sawyer Island at any given time.

Also I really want to ride the Mark Twain at night time.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Has the canoes or TSI even ever run at night? As far as I'm aware they haven't unless it was the very beginning. I think the only thing I remember was early nighttime shows where they'd have CMs rowing in canoes with lights singing. But never actual guests.

I would think it would be a safety issue to run both of those at night, especially now in 2018.
 

TwilightZone

Well-Known Member
I agree to a point. It is a pretty old show and a new show would be great. But personally, I'd like them to move this new show to dca. Or keep fantasmic or move it to dca.
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Has the canoes or TSI even ever run at night? As far as I'm aware they haven't unless it was the very beginning. I think the only thing I remember was early nighttime shows where they'd have CMs rowing in canoes with lights singing. But never actual guests.

I would think it would be a safety issue to run both of those at night, especially now in 2018.
Possibly. Even then, however, they could at least keep them open until sunset (8PM during the summer).
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I agree to a point. It is a pretty old show and a new show would be great. But personally, I'd like them to move this new show to dca. Or keep fantasmic or move it to dca.


Since Paradise Bay is a lake, there is no way to get the boats or other water craft into and out of the lake for a show. So they'd have to build some kind of storage area on the lake, like they did with F! storage in SW:GE berm. Not impossible, but also something likely they wouldn't want to do.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Possibly. Even then, however, they could at least keep them open until sunset (8PM during the summer).

Canoes stay open until dusk now. And TSI stops new guests at 5pm to allow time to clear out the island. So basically you're already getting what you want now.

The only thing you're not getting which it seems is the whole basis for this rant anyways is to ride Mark Twain at night. If you would have gone into the parks this passed year you would have had that chance. As they ran Mark Twain and/or Columbia at night while F! was down.

However to get back to your main rant in this thread. They aren't going to stop nighttime shows on ROA. They may retire F! and create a new show but they won't stop running nighttime shows on ROA. They need to spread out guests at night as they can't have everyone in the Hub for fireworks. So the only way to spread out those crowds is to give another nighttime show and viewing area for fireworks. Its also the reason why Small World Mall has become another viewing area for fireworks.
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
Fantasmic! as it existed before they decided to mess with it was, in my humble opinion, the single greatest thing Disney has ever done. The beautifully crafted soundtrack and show segments served as a perfect canvas for the introduction of new technology. Played against the backdrop that is Disneyland, the show perfectly embodied the magic of Disney, with the state of the art tech Disney is known for- and an original score that still gives me goosebumps.

Instead of taking the near perfect show and just giving it 2017 level tech, they decided to change it- and as a result, whatever emotional connection and draw I had to the show is now gone.

This new show is essentially Fantasmic! from Tokyo and World of Color with little bits of the '92 show thrown in.

That Pirates segment? Unbelievably bad.
The new vocals heard throughout? Horrific.
The new "Jungle" segment where they mash Lion King and Jungle Book? Confusing, convoluted mess.
The new Pink Elephants EDM track? Gonna age more poorly than Paint the Night's Soundtrack.
The new CM costumes? Yeesh.
The new exit music? A lullaby that makes me want to sleep. Doesn't even relate to the show.

I certainly don't want the show to end, but I do want to see Disney bring back the '92 track until such a time comes that they have show designers who are able to actually craft a show that exceeds the original in quality.

I'd be an advocate for them to project the Pinocchio segment on the water, and bring back the old show (with the new tech) for a summer to compare guest reactions to this new bastardization that currently plays on the river. Then, if it's received better, they can bring back it back in all its glory.

What's worse? This new show has already received changes to the in show animation, and soundtrack- something the original didn't need for 25 years.
 
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SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
Besides just not being as good anymore, the show started in 1992. It's 26 years old. Sure, the technology has been updated and so has now the show itself, but that's still too long for a theme park show, in my honest opinion, no matter how good it is.

Why is a show, especially a show that's heavily built into the infrastructure of the park, subject to different rules then an attraction like Pirates, Haunted Mansion, or Splash Mountain (which, if we're getting technical, Fantasmic is an attraction, if the park map is right)?

If it's good, popular, and still resonating with audiences, why should it be changed just cause it's a show? Sure, there does need to be some variety- but if something is so unbelievably popular that it played to a full audience almost every show of it's near 25 year run, why should it be changed?

Imagine if the Imagineers looked at Haunted Mansion and said "Look. The ride's old. Grim Grinning Ghosts? That was written 50 years ago! Modern audiences don't understand it. Let's scrap the ride, recast Leota, and develop a new song and set pieces since it's old". It would be blasphemy, and that logic wouldn't make sense.

Which is why it's a darn shame the Imagineers used that logic when changing Fantasmic.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Why is a show, especially a show that's heavily built into the infrastructure of the park, subject to different rules then an attraction like Pirates, Haunted Mansion, or Splash Mountain (which, if we're getting technical, Fantasmic is an attraction, if the park map is right)?

If it's good, popular, and still resonating with audiences, why should it be changed just cause it's a show? Sure, there does need to be some variety- but if something is so unbelievably popular that it played to a full audience almost every show of it's near 25 year run, why should it be changed?

Imagine if the Imagineers looked at Haunted Mansion and said "Look. The ride's old. Grim Grinning Ghosts? That was written 50 years ago! Modern audiences don't understand it. Let's scrap the ride, recast Leota, and develop a new song and set pieces since it's old". It would be blasphemy, and that logic wouldn't make sense.

Which is why it's a darn shame the Imagineers used that logic when changing Fantasmic.

To be fair, they did just mess with Haunted Mansion (Hatbox Ghost) and Pirates (the whole auction scene debacle). Plus all the Pirates movie changes.

So I don't think internally they have different logic, they like tinkering (or messing) with everything fairly equally it seems.
 

Ismael Flores

Well-Known Member
if you get rid of fantasmic all it is going to do is create bigger gridlocks of people

lets think about it this way

1). where are all those thousands of guests going to go during fireworks? right now they are sitting down in the same viewing area as fantasmic instead of being on mainstreet

2). the show removes thousands of guests from the walkways and confines them to sitting areas not only during the show but at least an hour before that

3) wether some think it lost its sharm it still is extremely popular

4) night parades are eliminated due to crowd control at night on mainstreet and ISSW mall for fireworks. eliminating another nighttime offering will just throw thousands more on the walkways and attractions creating longer wait times.

5) the canoes cant stay open all night and have such a low capacity it makes no difference to help the crowd issue.

6). the island also has to ahut down early due to safety concerns after dark.


so why eliminate aomething that uses a closed island and keeps thousands of guesta in holding pens for at least couple hours or more depending on how many shows are being shown

what should be done is to add capacity in ither oarta if the park. they can start by having more shows added to Mickey and magical map then add capacity to tomorrowland
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
To be fair, they did just mess with Haunted Mansion (Hatbox Ghost) and Pirates (the whole auction scene debacle). Plus all the Pirates movie changes.

So I don't think internally they have different logic, they like tinkering (or messing) with everything fairly equally it seems.

Yes, they've tinkered with classic attractions- but rarely to the extent they have with Fantasmic!. For all intents and purposes, the Haunted Mansion today is remarkably similar to the one that opened in '69 (though there are loads of minor differences and technology advancements present today).

Still doesn't answer why TROR thinks a show needs to have some kind of built in shelf life, just cause it's a show.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
The absolute biggest reason why I want Fantasmic to end is Galaxy's Edge is opening next year and that's going to bring in the crowds. Night time at the Disneyland Resort is already a complete pain and I don't even want to imagine next summer's crowds trying to squeeze through Frontierland and the Hub. That's not the only crowd issue relating to Fantasmic, though. Because of Fantasmic, the Mark Twain, the Sailing Ship Colombia, Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes, and Tom Sawyer Island all have to close at 5:45. Assuming the park closes at midnight, that's about six hours that four attractions are down. Both the Sailing Ship Columbia and the Mark Twain have a capacity of around 300, at 12 minutes a ride each, that's 1500 passengers an hour per ship. Times the six hours and double because two ships, that's 18,000 guests. Not as significant, but both canoes total 40 riders with an estimated 12 minute trip totaling in at 200 passengers an hour and 1,200 guests. That's already 19,200 guests that, hypothetically, wouldn't be in the walkways if not for Fantasmic, all not to mention the hundreds of guests that can be on Tom Sawyer Island at any given time.

Also I really want to ride the Mark Twain at night time.

Unfortunately I don't think your math holds up. As others pointed out it assumes they can run those rides until midnight, which almost across the board they cannot run after dark. All the other Dis parks shut down their equivalent Rivers attractions before dusk. So really we're just talking an additional two hours of operation (6k if you like).

Then of course the bigger flaw is the assumption that any of those attractions actually run consistently at capacity. Which they almost never do during the busy daytime to begin with. Extending the attraction operation time I wouldn't be surprised if a very equivalent numbers of guests would still ride, just over a longer period of time. Especially getting on fireworks witching hour you'd probably barely scrape together 25-50 people total at one time on any of the attractions combined.

Fantasmic (especially when run twice) actually sucks up way, way more guests. For a fairly significant amount of time too. Not to mention it still functions as additional fireworks viewing space.

The other flaw is that for the first time ever you actually will have a means of bypassing Fantasmic by going through Galaxy's Edge. I think things will actually be better as a result. They may ever highly encourage traffic to be routed through Galaxy's Edge during showtime.
 

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