it's a lost world: Where does IASW belong?

[northmusic]

I feel like it would fit in either place-
With all of the lack of construction and their slow production rate as of late, I don't think it would be replaced quickly at all. I do agree Fantasyland should give more attention to the more modern princesses, but I believe IASW is in Fantasyland because the main concept was Walt's, and the kingdom was his kingdom. (Techinically, Disneyland) As I believe, COP is also better fit for Future World, (it's still great in Tomorrowland!), it was Walt's idea and I think it is nice to keep those in MK to preserve Walt's ideas.
For a strategic point, I would move IASW to Epcot... but not in the World Showcase. The World Showcase already has Gran Fiesta, and there is no place to put that to one country. While there are 6-8 open pavilion spots open, they could certainly create a new pavilion or a part of future world that promotes equality... or rather how cultures intermingle, or something like that. I just feel like while IASW has a good fit for EPCOT's general theme, there is no actual place for it to make sense, IMO. While it would free up room in Fantasyland to make room for new princesses, I don't know where the placement of IASW would be.

Agreed. COP would be a much better fit for future world in Epcot. The ride could also be upgraded so that it shows technology in 40 year increments instead of 20 years, which would bring it up to date (I know I've said this before, so sorry if I'm beating a dead horse).

I also believe that they should rename Tomorrowland to SciFi land (or something like that) in WDW only. Future World kind of took place of what Tomorrowland was supposed to be, so making the separation between SciFi stories (like Tron), and the "future of mankind" type stuff would be beneficial imo.

 

[Thrill]

Things:

• "it's a small world" to EPCOT is something I haven't thought of, but it's absolutely brilliant. One of my biggest complaints at Magic Kingdom is that "Old" Fantasyland has lazy-looking exteriors. It's hard to re-purpose the old iasw building into something more in line with the expansion without moving the ride elsewhere at all, and if it's moved to somewhere else in Fantasyland, then you have to contend with making it fit in with its surroundings all over again. By moving it to EPCOT, you're putting a World's Fair attraction in what is essentially a permanent World's Fair. Beautiful.
• Tomorrowland is in an identity crisis, and I'd argue that Future World is as well. I do not believe that Future World is Tomorrowland+. They can co-exist with no name changes and no overlap. Future World is about actual science and technology. Tomorrowland (like every land in the Magic Kingdom) is about idealization. Future World is concerned with where we're actually going, and Tomorrowland is concerned with where we thought we were going. One explains the ins and outs of energy, and the other is there for sleek looking spaceships and submarines. Tomorrowland's future should be one of Verne and Wells.
  
• With this incredibly deep realization about Future World and Tomorrowland having been made, I think it's pretty clear that Carousel of Progress is a better fit in Future World. The question is location. It should be centered, but that would block up the openness which Future World should have. If it can go beneath Innoventions, it's a good fit. It doesn't even need to predict the future. It just needs to be the last century's version of Spaceship Earth.

 

[dadddio]

With how much space is behind IASW and Mermaid, not to mention how Frontierland could finally lose its bottleneck by Big Thunder/Splash. You could expand both sections of the park while ultimately connecting them and clearing up some congestion in MK. As long as IASW remained in EPCOT somewhere, I wouldn't mind.

NFL (New FrontierLand). I like the way you think.

That would be a good place to plop the Indiana Jones ride.

 

[adisneyprincess]

Agreed. COP would be a much better fit for future world in Epcot. The ride could also be upgraded so that it shows technology in 40 year increments instead of 20 years, which would bring it up to date (I know I've said this before, so sorry if I'm beating a dead horse).

I also believe that they should rename Tomorrowland to SciFi land (or something like that) in WDW only. Future World kind of took place of what Tomorrowland was supposed to be, so making the separation between SciFi stories (like Tron), and the "future of mankind" type stuff would be beneficial imo.

I'm a little hesitant to update COP just because it is a classic. I would definitely refurb it. Not sure if I'd change the scenes at all. I would possibly add a scene in between the last two and update the last scene to make it more modern. As for re-naming, I feel like that name is a little superficial... but I see the need for differentiation.

 

[JaguarGator9]

I'm a little hesitant to update COP just because it is a classic. I would definitely refurb it. Not sure if I'd change the scenes at all. I would possibly add a scene in between the last two and update the last scene to make it more modern. As for re-naming, I feel like that name is a little superficial... but I see the need for differentiation.

I definitely would not update the existing scenes in COP, as you said. The whole point of the attraction is to show how far society has come, so to update it in that regards, I agree with you. However, to elaborate on your point, there needs to be more scenes. The current problems with COP is that,

1) The transition from the third scene to the fourth scene seems rushed, and seems to randomly skip 50 years.
2) The fourth scene (the ending scene) is based off of technology that is, nowadays, ancient.

If I were to update COP, I would add a scene in between the 1940s and early-90s, and I would add a scene after the early-90s. The 1900s scene would stay the same, the 1920s scene would change to revolve around St. Patrick's Day, the 1940s scene would change to revolve around the 4th of July (like the 1920s scene does currently), the new scene (the 1960s) would revolve around Halloween, the early-90s scene would revolve around Thanksgiving, and the new scene about the 2010s/modern society would revolve around Christmas. You still keep your seasonal calendar in tact, and you cover pretty much every element possible of the 20th and 21st centuries.

 

[adisneyprincess]

I definitely would not update the existing scenes in COP, as you said. The whole point of the attraction is to show how far society has come, so to update it in that regards, I agree with you. However, to elaborate on your point, there needs to be more scenes. The current problems with COP is that,

1) The transition from the third scene to the fourth scene seems rushed, and seems to randomly skip 50 years.
2) The fourth scene (the ending scene) is based off of technology that is, nowadays, ancient.

If I were to update COP, I would add a scene in between the 1940s and early-90s, and I would add a scene after the early-90s. The 1900s scene would stay the same, the 1920s scene would change to revolve around St. Patrick's Day, the 1940s scene would change to revolve around the 4th of July (like the 1920s scene does currently), the new scene (the 1960s) would revolve around Halloween, the early-90s scene would revolve around Thanksgiving, and the new scene about the 2010s/modern society would revolve around Christmas. You still keep your seasonal calendar in tact, and you cover pretty much every element possible of the 20th and 21st centuries.

I gotcha. Your points are valid. However, I feel as if the ending scene should be a depiction of what should be seen and expected of the future. "It's a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow" is now the concept, and at least I think that the final scene should show possible gadgets and gizmos. I don't want a complete overhaul. I would add a scene, but I feel as if the scene would look very different from the other scenes because the addition would be more modern, even though it is placed in a non modern time. It would be interesting to see it updated. What would you put in those scenes? I'm only hesitant to see changes because it's a classic.

 

[JaguarGator9]

I gotcha. Your points are valid. However, I feel as if the ending scene should be a depiction of what should be seen and expected of the future. "It's a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow" is now the concept, and at least I think that the final scene should show possible gadgets and gizmos. I don't want a complete overhaul. I would add a scene, but I feel as if the scene would look very different from the other scenes because the addition would be more modern, even though it is placed in a non modern time. It would be interesting to see it updated. What would you put in those scenes? I'm only hesitant to see changes because it's a classic.

Agreed. The final scene should show possible gadgets and gizmos. I'm not disagreeing with you there. However, these possible gadgets and gizmos should be things that currently don't exist that could exist in an ideal society, such as robots playing a part in everyday life. Right now, in the final scene, the son and the grandmother are playing an outdated video game on an outdated television screen. That could stay for the early-90s scene, but COP shouldn't end there, because progress never stops. Keep the gadgets and gizmos, just update the technology to make the final scene (a representation of the future) seem less outdated.

 

[adisneyprincess]

Agreed. The final scene should show possible gadgets and gizmos. I'm not disagreeing with you there. However, these possible gadgets and gizmos should be things that currently don't exist that could exist in an ideal society, such as robots playing a part in everyday life. Right now, in the final scene, the son and the grandmother are playing an outdated video game on an outdated television screen. That could stay for the early-90s scene, but COP shouldn't end there, because progress never stops. Keep the gadgets and gizmos, just update the technology to make the final scene (a representation of the future) see less outdated.

Exactly, I like that. That way we wouldn't have the issue of having the decor seem too new for an older scene. I like the robots idea. Maybe mention of a flying car, or like take some ideas and embellish on those in Spaceship Earth. Like having a doctor to fix a broken arm right away, etc.

 

[ArtificialArtist]

I would make World Showplace into the United Nations Pavilion. The entrance area inside would be a Hall of Nations, with flags hanging from all UN members. To the right would be the queue for IASW. During Festivals, forward would be the NEW Festival Center (WoL gets replaced). The extended queue would take up the right half of the Hall of Nations, leaving the left open for Festival traffic. I might post a map later.

You forgot the part where Disney tries to steer clear of any political reference regarding WS.
Hence why the Israel pavillion wasn't built.
"Representing" the world through any political body or organization in World Showcase would be a very risky move. However, if the focus in WS would shift more towards environmental features, the "beauty of the world",
and add a proper (no, nothing similar to The Land) pavillion at the current Celebration tent-pavillion,
it could be pulled off without political reference.
More along the likes of the WWF(World Wildlife Fund) or WHF(World Heritage Fund).
OR a "celebration" of human life, and how our ancestors shaped the world we live in today,
we're all part part of an imperfect, vulnerable civilisation,
but all the brickwork that has been done has transferred us right onto the fastlane,
the internet brings the world closer together.
In a similar way a international pavillion at EPCOT WS would perfectly integrate into the WS Environment. That international tent on the far east side of WS is a joke though. There's space, too. WS does need a conceptual overhaul, i think that's out of the question. Just need to steer clear of political maelstroms.

Also, think of all the great past civilisations upon whose ashes we build our houses on, so to speak. they paved the road for us to be able to add the pavement.
There's plenty of ideas without having to build a UN pavillion in Epcot.

So in a way the idea of moving IaSW, or conceptualise something centering on the same Topic, is not a bad one.


Oh and PS: The Germany pavillion represents only Bavaria, not Germany. It annoys me.

EDIT: And while we're at the topic, CoP is really the attraction to move to Epcot, it screams Epcot every night. I've heard it cry.

 

[jdmdisney99]

You forgot the part where Disney tries to steer clear of any political reference regarding WS.
Hence why the Israel pavillion wasn't built.
"Representing" the world through any political body or organization in World Showcase would be a very risky move. However, if the focus in WS would shift more towards environmental features, the "beauty of the world",
and add a proper (no, nothing similar to The Land) pavillion at the current Celebration tent-pavillion,
it could be pulled off without political reference.
More along the likes of the WWF(World Wildlife Fund) or WHF(World Heritage Fund).
OR a "celebration" of human life, and how our ancestors shaped the world we live in today,
we're all part part of an imperfect, vulnerable civilisation,
but all the brickwork that has been done has transferred us right onto the fastlane,
the internet brings the world closer together.
In a similar way a international pavillion at EPCOT WS would perfectly integrate into the WS Environment. That international tent on the far east side of WS is a joke though. There's space, too. WS does need a conceptual overhaul, i think that's out of the question. Just need to steer clear of political maelstroms.

Also, think of all the great past civilisations upon whose ashes we build our houses on, so to speak. they paved the road for us to be able to add the pavement.
There's plenty of ideas without having to build a UN pavillion in Epcot.

So in a way the idea of moving IaSW, or conceptualise something centering on the same Topic, is not a bad one.


Oh and PS: The Germany pavillion represents only Bavaria, not Germany. It annoys me.

EDIT: And while we're at the topic, CoP is really the attraction to move to Epcot, it screams Epcot every night. I've heard it cry.

Oh I agree. I only referred to it as a UN pavilion because it was just off the top of my head when I was truly looking for the right words, which would probably be International Pavilion or something more creative. It could also go at the head of the land, directly across the lagoon from The American Adventure, though I would want to leave that spot for a human Progress Pavilion (CoP. Horizons 2.0, etc.). It would make the most sense though to put iasw there as it would be a good gateway into World Showcase.

 

[ArtificialArtist]

Oh I agree. I only referred to it as a UN pavilion because it was just off the top of my head when I was truly looking for the right words, which would probably be International Pavilion or something more creative. It could also go at the head of the land, directly across the lagoon from The American Adventure, though I would want to leave that spot for a human Progress Pavilion (CoP. Horizons 2.0, etc.). It would make the most sense though to put iasw there as it would be a good gateway into World Showcase.

I've been playing around with ideas for Horizons for some time. I'll post some material later. You'll like it.
Haven't thought of adding CoP into the concept, but i like the idea, those two blend seamlessly. And the CoP lot would give Tomorrowland some space to breathe. And surely Walt would agree as he built it for a World's Fair, so Epcot is THE place it should be at in the first place. Also, they moved it before..

The Germany pavillion could be torn down and instead a new Germany pavillion could be built
where the tent is, next to England >
In all seriousness though, the space west of the pavillion is viable for use so there is plenty of space there.
Also the showbuilding for the Germany pavillion is quite big, so it could still be used in a new concept.

 

[Fox&Hound]

If you claim the princesses and cartoons don't belong in EPCOT, then the same argument applies to IASW not belonging in Fantasyland. Move it and use the space for so much more....

Tangled-yes please
Frozen-yes please
Emperor's New Groove (will NEVER happen in a billion years, I know)- yes please
Classic ride with Mickey and the gang-yes ma'am

 

[G00fyDad]

Honestly, you were the one to call him a coward and a fool in the first place, so he was only acting like you had before. Also, he is entitled to his own opinion and if you disagree with that fine, just don't call him a coward and a fool. In fact, he was the opposite of a coward, he was stating his opinion which sometimes can be a little scary, worrying about what others think of you.

They were messing with each other.

 

[RMichael21]

They were messing with each other.

I know.

 

[doctornick]

They'd have to close at some point to move the dolls. And during that time, Disney better have their PR and Guest Service teams on high alert, lol.

Because rides never go down for periods for refurbs?

 

[Tom]

Because rides never go down for periods for refurbs?

Because they've never shut down a ride at WDW to move it to another park.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Because they've never shut down a ride at WDW to move it to another park.

Magic Journeys? Did that go MK to Epcot or Epcot to MK? Obviously a show is totally different than a ride.

 

[Thrill]

Because they've never shut down a ride at WDW to move it to another park.

They have shut down attractions to move them across parks.

 

[Tom]

Magic Journeys? Did that go MK to Epcot or Epcot to MK? Obviously a show is totally different than a ride.

D'oh!

 

[jt04]

So yeah, the IaSW facade refurb was unveiled recently and nothing but a pressure wash and repaint. So why wouldn't they seem to consider an upgraded exterior to match the new additions to the FLE?

Hmmm. Some may say it is due to TDO numbers crunching and bean counting. Or there is always the possibility they have something else in mind for the future and do not want to spend on a proper upgrade. I remain optimistic that it is the second option eventually.