Is this really a service dog?

[EOD K9]

We had a great (non)service dog incident at work today. One of our handlers was out in the area with his K9 partner doing what he was supposed to be doing. A "service dog" (it says so on his vest) off lead with a mini shock collar was walking with his owner. The dog ran at our handler and attacked his partner. The handler attempted to break them up and got bit several times. Service dog my @$$. Both handler and our K9 have been released from the hospital. #entitled.

 

[joejccva71]

So what can be done if while we're on our trip believe someone is using a fake service dog?

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

Almost forgot what forum I was on for a minute there.

 

[zbsigpi]

Well because I am staying at Beach Club in 30 days and spent quite a bit of money for a vacation and I don't want dogs barking, running around the beach, lifting their leg, pooping and not having owners pick it up.

Service dogs are different. They are very well trained. They aren't hopping up on furniture, they aren't barking, they aren't lifting their leg whenever they feel like it.

I had my entire trip booked at Yacht Club because some co-workers of mine had their trips booked at that resort as well. When they got back earlier this year in February they told me that the CM's did not enforce where the dogs were allowed to go at the resort. They saw dogs on furniture in the lobby, and walking around on the main boardwalk and near the boardwalk door to the resort. The dogs are supposed to be in only certain designated areas. Needless to say I cancelled Yacht Club and ended up going with Beach Club because my kid loves that pool, or I would have stayed either at Boardwalk or somewhere else.

And I get irritated when people try to take advantage of the Service Dog system so they can bring their pets to the resort. So yes the video really bothered me. Just being honest.

I do not like the whole fake service dog either, however ADA specifies that the dog or miniature horse (only two approved ADA animals) are allowed anywhere the guest is allowed.

 

[zbsigpi]

Good post. On your last statement though, if the dog in question is a service animal and is "off duty", shouldn't the owner remove the "Service Dog" vest and let him play? Is that technically a requirement or no?

Vests are NOT required! But most true service dogs i have seen (work in a hotel) either have a vest or at least a harness and know when they are working or not.

 

[joejccva71]

Vests are NOT required! But most true service dogs i have seen (work in a hotel) either have a vest or at least a harness and know when they are working or not.

So anyone can just walk up with their dog and just claim it's a service dog? And not show any proof or anything?

 

[zbsigpi]

So what can be done if while we're on our trip believe someone is using a fake service dog?

Truly NOTHING! An estabilshment can only legally ask 2 questions 1)Is the animal (dog or miniature horse) required because of a disability? and 2)What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?

The reasoning behind these questions and not others is so that the rights of the person with the animal are not violated.

The service animal if it disrupts or damages/destroys property then they can be asked to leave.

Now with that all said I have never see a true service animal not be within 1 foot of their human unless told to stay and the human walks away, bark when not told to or misbehave.

 

[zbsigpi]

So anyone can just walk up with their dog and just claim it's a service dog? And not show any proof or anything?

Correct! I just posted the only 2 questions an establishment can ask to ascertain if allowed or not.

 

[joejccva71]

Pure garbage to be honest. I hope I don't see one while I'm on vacation. I won't be pleasant about it.

So what is the point of it being a federal crime to fake a service dog if officers can't do anything about it? lol

 

[larryz]

I do not like the whole fake service dog either, however ADA specifies that the dog or miniature horse (only two approved ADA animals) are allowed anywhere the guest is allowed.

As long as the dog (and I'll assume the miniature horse as well) is well-behaved and doesn't crap on the floor. Either case can result in the dog and the handler to be ejected.

I believe it's time to amend the ADA to require that service animals be certified and documented, and to require the handler to provide proof of certification when requested.

 

[21stamps]

We had a great (non)service dog incident at work today. One of our handlers was out in the area with his K9 partner doing what he was supposed to be doing. A "service dog" (it says so on his vest) off lead with a mini shock collar was walking with his owner. The dog ran at our handler and attacked his partner. The handler attempted to break them up and got bit several times. Service dog my @$$. Both handler and our K9 have been released from the hospital. #entitled.

Wow. That’s horrible! Hopefully they’re both doing fine!

 

[EOD K9]

Yes they are. He'll be sore tomorrow as anyone who has been bit and had to fight a dog knows. They have a few days off now.

 

[larryz]

We had a great (non)service dog incident at work today. One of our handlers was out in the area with his K9 partner doing what he was supposed to be doing. A "service dog" (it says so on his vest) off lead with a mini shock collar was walking with his owner. The dog ran at our handler and attacked his partner. The handler attempted to break them up and got bit several times. Service dog my @$$. Both handler and our K9 have been released from the hospital. #entitled.

Looks like Morgan & Morgan will be racking up a few hours on this one...

Which raises a good question -- do service animal owners have to carry extra liability insurance in case their service animal goes "off leash"?

 

[correcaminos]

As long as the dog (and I'll assume the miniature horse as well) is well-behaved and doesn't crap on the floor. Either case can result in the dog and the handler to be ejected.

I believe it's time to amend the ADA to require that service animals be certified and documented, and to require the handler to provide proof of certification when requested.

I don't disagree but this will be a massive undertaking and likely quite costly to implement

 

[larryz]

I don't disagree but this will be a massive undertaking and likely quite costly to implement

Good programs often are.

 

[thomas998]

I don't disagree but this will be a massive undertaking and likely quite costly to implement

I don't see how it would be that costly. If you really need a service animal you simply have your doctor give a prescription for a service animal and then go the DMV and have them put a exemption on your license. Not much different from some drivers licenses today that will have a note about requiring the person to have glucose with them when they drive.

Only real problem is policing the doctors that would probably be too complacent in handing out prescription at the drop of a hat they way they often do for the handicap parking stickers. I know of several people that have bragged about getting their doctor to give them the paper work for the handicap stickers when they are no more handicapped than I am, they just want the convenience of parking closer to the entrances. For that they might need to do some random verifications of the person really needing the animal and if a doctor was shown to be handing them out like candy - then hit the doctor with a huge fine or revoke their license. You wouldn't need more than a couple of doctors getting nailed and the rest would quickly become realistic.

 

[correcaminos]

I don't see how it would be that costly. If you really need a service animal you simply have your doctor give a prescription for a service animal and then go the DMV and have them put a exemption on your license. Not much different from some drivers licenses today that will have a note about requiring the person to have glucose with them when they drive.

Only real problem is policing the doctors that would probably be too complacent in handing out prescription at the drop of a hat they way they often do for the handicap parking stickers. I know of several people that have bragged about getting their doctor to give them the paper work for the handicap stickers when they are no more handicapped than I am, they just want the convenience of parking closer to the entrances. For that they might need to do some random verifications of the person really needing the animal and if a doctor was shown to be handing them out like candy - then hit the doctor with a huge fine or revoke their license. You wouldn't need more than a couple of doctors getting nailed and the rest would quickly become realistic.

But that's not how it works. Doctors are not involved in this and one cannot simply go get a dog. Doctors should has e nothing to do with certification of dogs as well. They are not involved in the training or costs. You would need to create regulations that all trainers would have to follow. Not to mention protetion got those animals in training. There is so much that goes into getting a service animal and none of it is at all like what you said. To me your comments mange me think you are not aware of how people do get animals. You need to certify the animal, not the human

We're talking a national level here. It's foolish to think is simply easy to implement.

 

[thomas998]

But that's not how it works. Doctors are not involved in this and one cannot simply go get a dog. Doctors should has e nothing to do with certification of dogs as well. They are not involved in the training or costs. You would need to create regulations that all trainers would have to follow. Not to mention protetion got those animals in training. There is so much that goes into getting a service animal and none of it is at all like what you said. To me your comments mange me think you are not aware of how people do get animals. You need to certify the animal, not the human

We're talking a national level here. It's foolish to think is simply easy to implement.

I'm not talking about seeing eye dogs where it is pretty obvious when a person that is blind has a seeing eye dog, I'm talking about these "comfort" dogs where someone supposedly has such high anxiety that they only way they can cope is with a "comfort" animal... If you have that type of problem then you need to be seeing a psychiatrist. I fully expect that every few if any doctor would ever say their patient needs a service dog because of their anxiety... Point being it would eliminate the service dogs used for "comfort" completely without having to simply say no to them. Because simply saying no to them now would be like any entitlement in this country and be met with multiple lawsuits that would take years to wade through. Sometimes the best way to get rid of something isn't banning it but simply regulating it out of existence.

 

[correcaminos]

I'm not talking about seeing eye dogs where it is pretty obvious when a person that is blind has a seeing eye dog, I'm talking about these "comfort" dogs where someone supposedly has such high anxiety that they only way they can cope is with a "comfort" animal... If you have that type of problem then you need to be seeing a psychiatrist. I fully expect that every few if any doctor would ever say their patient needs a service dog because of their anxiety... Point being it would eliminate the service dogs used for "comfort" completely without having to simply say no to them. Because simply saying no to them now would be like any entitlement in this country and be met with multiple lawsuits that would take years to wade through. Sometimes the best way to get rid of something isn't banning it but simply regulating it out of existence.

What you are talking about aren't service animals, but ESAs and they are not protected the same way real service animals are.

I was talking of real service animals. I wouldn't mind seeing that happen, but it would be a huge undertaking for many reasons.

ESAs can be kicked out at any given time without question since they are not really working animals. I truthfully don't care if they ever get regulated because they and their owners really have no rights. I do wish that owners felt they had more recourse for those with fake animals without worrying bout law suits and the like

 

[thomas998]

What you are talking about aren't service animals, but ESAs and they are not protected the same way real service animals are.

I was talking of real service animals. I wouldn't mind seeing that happen, but it would be a huge undertaking for many reasons.

ESAs can be kicked out at any given time without question since they are not really working animals. I truthfully don't care if they ever get regulated because they and their owners really have no rights. I do wish that owners felt they had more recourse for those with fake animals without worrying bout law suits and the like

Unfortunately the ADA changes in 2011 still left a gray area as while it does state that service animals for comfort aren't included it still has a provision that animals that calm a person with PTSD are protected. Which means all the person has to do is say the dog is for PTSD and that ends that. Even more of a problem is that states often have laws that are more generous in what a service animal is which makes it even more problematic for a business.

In the end this is just a situation where the good intentions of a law like ADA gets turned on its head and becomes a problem because some people will use the law to abuse the system instead of using the law for what it was intended.