Is there any news on the Epcot monorail?

[donsullivan]

Yeah, I get it, but these excuses are unacceptable. Refurb one train at a time. Bring back the staff. 2 left over... That's like saying WDW would leave a perfectly operable new D(ish)-ticket ride sitting on standby b/c they don't care about the guest experience. Folks don't pay top dollar to stay at the MK resorts to have no fireworks and take busses to Epcot. Oh wait, actually... I'm going in June and the Epcot monorail is probably one of my top 5 experiences on property, so this makes me very angry and their excuses are just that to me.

With the parks currently running at 35% capacity, most of Poly offline for refurb and much of Contemporary going offline for refurb the monorail to Epcot isn't necessary to meet capacity demands. It's not about 'how much I paid', it's about actual capacity and need. As park capacity goes up and those resorts come back online from refurbs, the demand will be there and it will likely return.

This is also creating a long overdue opportunity for the extensive refurbishment these trains have needed for a long time. This 'should' improve both the cosmetic condition and reliability when they do come back online to be ready for the 50th anniversary volumes.

 

[mattpeto]

Deluxe resort guests and parkhoppers. So if it’s the capacity restrictions at Epcot, would it still be an issue when Disney changes distancing to 3 feet?

I guess it's cheaper to run the buses from MK and Epcot and vise-versa after 2 pm.

Here are my current theories when it's back on (Best Case to Worst Case)

• When paid event parties restart at MK. They will need to transfer guests around a bit more and it could help the load.
• When demand is truly there to get from MK to Epcot. Maybe at 50th when Remy's opens.
• When all capacity restrictions are lifted .
• When Park Hopping time moves to earlier in the day. This could come after the "park reservation era" which might not come for a couple of years (or ever)

FWIW: I thought it was going to come back when PH resumed on Jan 1. I was dead wrong.

 

[orky8]

With the parks currently running at 35% capacity, most of Poly offline for refurb and much of Contemporary going offline for refurb the monorail to Epcot isn't necessary to meet capacity demands. It's not about 'how much I paid', it's about actual capacity and need. As park capacity goes up and those resorts come back online from refurbs, the demand will be there and it will likely return.

This is also creating a long overdue opportunity for the extensive refurbishment these trains have needed for a long time. This 'should' improve both the cosmetic condition and reliability when they do come back online to be ready for the 50th anniversary volumes.

This is exactly my point. The don't NEED the monorail open, so who cares if we provide a diminished guest experience. This is same argument that Disney makes with every nickel-and-dime decision they make. Rat can sit idle. Tron can be moth-balled. The Epcot monorail doesn't NEED to exist as all - part of my is confused why they are cleaning the beams instead of tearing them down (but see people mover in Disneyland, why tear down at all?).

Now, others are making the point that the resort line is currently taxed and so opening the Epcot line will put undue stress on the resort line so there is an operational challenge. I believe a motivated company could solve that operational challenge - Disney is not that company, they only assess the bare minimum that is NEEDED.

 

[Weather_Lady]

I'm wishing and dreaming they might at least aim to get it running before the Food & Wine Festival starts (especially if MNSSHP is going to be overlapping with it), so that guests can hop to (and away from) Epcot from MK and the monorail resorts a little more conveniently.

If I keep on believing, the dream that I wish will come true, right?

P.S. I've been following some Facebook groups dedicated to the monorail resorts and am seeing some complaints start to crop up from current guests that the "bus to Epcot" alternative is becoming less and less capable of keeping up with demand. Unless WDW does something dramatic to address it, it's only going to get worse from here on in as crowds pick up and the Polynesian Village Resort reopens.

 

[donsullivan]

This is exactly my point. The don't NEED the monorail open, so who cares if we provide a diminished guest experience. This is same argument that Disney makes with every nickel-and-dime decision they make. Rat can sit idle. Tron can be moth-balled. The Epcot monorail doesn't NEED to exist as all - part of my is confused why they are cleaning the beams instead of tearing them down (but see people mover in Disneyland, why tear down at all?).

Now, others are making the point that the resort line is currently taxed and so opening the Epcot line will put undue stress on the resort line so there is an operational challenge. I believe a motivated company could solve that operational challenge - Disney is not that company, they only assess the bare minimum that is NEEDED.

A little on the over-dramatic side are we?

They are running a business (and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this) but it is fiscally irresponsible, when the entire resort is operating at reduced capacity with many resorts still closed to open up services just because someone 'wants them' when you do not need the capacity yet. When revenue is down 70% since pre-pandemic levels you have to reduce expenses- that is just the reality of life. As park capacity increases and more resorts are opened (or come out of refurbishment) there will be enough traffic between those destinations to justify restarting operations on that beam.

Yours is the same 'keep everything open all the time' philosophy that prevented necessary maintenance on the monorails for many years. When guests demanded MK be open 9AM to 2AM (but they demanded to get there by 8AM) there was little time left for proper maintenance. I'm personally glad to see them taking advantage of this (albeit it ending soon) slow period to perform some long overdue overhauls on the monorails and cleaning the Epcot beam to get them ready for full load and demand later in the year.

 

[peter11435]

Deluxe resort guests and parkhoppers. So if it’s the capacity restrictions at Epcot, would it still be an issue when Disney changes distancing to 3 feet?

The issue isn’t at Epcot. The issue is the MK resort line.

 

[peter11435]

I believe a motivated company could solve that operational challenge - Disney is not that company, they only assess the bare minimum that is NEEDED.

There is no way to solve that challenge. The only solution is being able to increase the monorail capacity to pre pandemic levels. They’ve done all they can do until distancing guidelines can be relaxed. Disney has plenty of motivation but eliminated infectious disease is above their abilities.

 

[HarperRose]

A little on the over-dramatic side are we?

They are running a business (and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this) but it is fiscally irresponsible, when the entire resort is operating at reduced capacity with many resorts still closed to open up services just because someone 'wants them' when you do not need the capacity yet. When revenue is down 70% since pre-pandemic levels you have to reduce expenses- that is just the reality of life. As park capacity increases and more resorts are opened (or come out of refurbishment) there will be enough traffic between those destinations to justify restarting operations on that beam.

Yours is the same 'keep everything open all the time' philosophy that prevented necessary maintenance on the monorails for many years. When guests demanded MK be open 9AM to 2AM (but they demanded to get there by 8AM) there was little time left for proper maintenance. I'm personally glad to see them taking advantage of this (albeit it ending soon) slow period to perform some long overdue overhauls on the monorails and cleaning the Epcot beam to get them ready for full load and demand later in the year.

Speaking to your second paragraph, it wouldn't have been an impossibility for WDW to take one monorail at a time out of service for a day/week (or whatever time was needed for maintenance) and cycle them through, losing only the capacity of that one train for a limited time.

As far as cleaning the beam itself, they could have had multiple crews work on it once a year and shut down that monorail route for a day or two while it's done. There are some things Disney makes much harder than they have to be.

 

[peter11435]

Speaking to your second paragraph, it wouldn't have been an impossibility for WDW to take one monorail at a time out of service for a day/week (or whatever time was needed for maintenance) and cycle them through, losing only the capacity of that one train for a limited time.

As far as cleaning the beam itself, they could have had multiple crews work on it once a year and shut down that monorail route for a day or two while it's done. There are some things Disney makes much harder than they have to be.

They have always taken trains out of service for routine refurbishment. That has been happening off and on for decades.

 

[orky8]

A little on the over-dramatic side are we?

They are running a business (and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this) but it is fiscally irresponsible, when the entire resort is operating at reduced capacity with many resorts still closed to open up services just because someone 'wants them' when you do not need the capacity yet. When revenue is down 70% since pre-pandemic levels you have to reduce expenses- that is just the reality of life. As park capacity increases and more resorts are opened (or come out of refurbishment) there will be enough traffic between those destinations to justify restarting operations on that beam.

Yours is the same 'keep everything open all the time' philosophy that prevented necessary maintenance on the monorails for many years. When guests demanded MK be open 9AM to 2AM (but they demanded to get there by 8AM) there was little time left for proper maintenance. I'm personally glad to see them taking advantage of this (albeit it ending soon) slow period to perform some long overdue overhauls on the monorails and cleaning the Epcot beam to get them ready for full load and demand later in the year.

Sorry, I forgot the bean counters are running a business. Universal apparently is running a charity.

And the other point I've been making is the only reason they "can't" do things now is b/c of the poor decisions that have been made for years by a company that delivers the MVP - minimum viable product, not the other MVP.

There is no way to solve that challenge. The only solution is being able to increase the monorail capacity to pre pandemic levels. They’ve done all they can do until distancing guidelines can be relaxed. Disney has plenty of motivation but eliminated infectious disease is above their abilities.

Ok, Luke. Yoda would have made it happen. Again, these challenges are problems they've created for themselves. They've had a year (or 10) to refurb the trains and fix various issues. They are down a resort and contemporary tower is largely closed and the parks are at (supposedly) 35% capacity. I find in inexcusable (to put it delicately) that the resort line can't support that level of patronage to two parks, one of which doesn't open till 11. How about shutting off access to the resort line for non-resort guests, for starters, except for the after fireworks rush (oh wait...).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How many trains are permitted by the blocking system on each of the loops? Additional question, is MOPA still what the blocking system is called or was that terminology phased out with all of the additional automation that was done?

So usually max capacity is however many stations are available. So that would be 5 on express and 5 on resort, but right now it’s only 4 until Poly station reopens. Currently they are taking 2 trains offline at a time for refurbs which leaves 10 available. So doesn’t seem likely they would want to strain the system until all trains are back in service and can be loaded pre Covid levels.

3 on each line and 3 in the roundhouse...

I don’t believe they’d ever go more than 4 on a line...especially after “the incident”

 

[peter11435]

Ok, Luke. Yoda would have made it happen. Again, these challenges are problems they've created for themselves. They've had a year (or 10) to refurb the trains and fix various issues. They are down a resort and contemporary tower is largely closed and the parks are at (supposedly) 35% capacity. I find in inexcusable (to put it delicately) that the resort line can't support that level of patronage to two parks, one of which doesn't open till 11. How about shutting off access to the resort line for non-resort guests, for starters, except for the after fireworks rush (oh wait...).

This has nothing to do with any problem you perceive they’ve created for themselves nor does it have anything to do with any train refurbishments. You keep arguing points that don’t exist.

The resort line currently can barely handle the demand from the partially closed resorts it services to one park. Why do you think they rushed to finish the grand Floridian walkway and are encouraging guests to also use the available boat transportation. The resort beam capacity can not handle the added demand of the Epcot line at this time. There is no solution other than relaxing distancing guidelines on board the train themselves.

 

[orky8]

This has nothing to do with any problem you perceive they’ve created for themselves nor does it have anything to do with any train refurbishments. You keep arguing points that don’t exist.

The resort line currently can barely handle the demand from the partially closed resorts it services to one park. Why do you think they rushed to finish the grand Floridian walkway and are encouraging guests to also use the available boat transportation. The resort beam capacity can not handle the added demand of the Epcot line at this time. There is no solution other than relaxing distancing guidelines on board the train themselves.

I literally just gave you a solution. Resort guests only and people with a park-hopper (so take away people using the resort line to go from their car to MK and back) on the resort line. Stagger theme park open/closings (check, already done). And fine, relax the distancing requirements if needed (Seems like it's coming soon regardless, but I'd rather not devolve this thread into a debate on that issue, so I won't say anything further on it and I believe the first two items are sufficient). Don't feel comfortable riding with another family, wait for the next train or take a bus.

 

[peter11435]

I literally just gave you a solution. Resort guests only and people with a park-hopper (so take away people using the resort line to go from their car to MK and back) on the resort line. Stagger theme park open/closings (check, already done). And fine, relax the distancing requirements if needed (Seems like it's coming soon regardless, but I'd rather not devolve this thread into a debate on that issue, so I won't say anything further on it and I believe the first two items are sufficient). Don't feel comfortable riding with another family, wait for the next train or take a bus.

Your solution does not solve the problem. Even if you eliminate non-resort guests the capacity is still not there. Non-resort guests do not make up a large percentage of resort line passengers. And I don’t think you understand just how dramatically lower the monorail capacity is at the moment. As you mentioned park hours are already staggered so that does not help the situation. The only viable solution is relaxing distancing guidelines which is not something that can just be done on a whim because you want to ride a monorail to Epcot.

When distancing can be relaxed and capacity increased the Epcot line will return. But even then at the start they will still need to run buses to supplement until capacity and guest behavior returns to normal.

 

[HarperRose]

Your solution does not solve the problem. Even if you eliminate non-resort guests the capacity is still not there. Non-resort guests do not make up a large percentage of resort line passengers. And I don’t think you understand just how dramatically lower the monorail capacity is at the moment. As you mentioned park hours are already staggered so that does not help the situation. The only viable solution is relaxing distancing guidelines which is not something that can just be done on a whim because you want to ride a monorail to Epcot.

When distancing can be relaxed and capacity increased the Epcot line will return. But even then at the start they will still need to run buses to supplement until capacity and guest behavior returns to normal.

When I was there, the cars were presumably at 100% capacity, with dividers between the different sections. There was no one monitoring who was getting into which car or where they were sitting.

Courtesy of Allears.net https://allears.net/2021/01/13/photos-monorail-adds-dividers-to-increase-capacity-in-disney-world/

 

[castlecake2.0]

The MK loop is operating so clearly they can. Not arguing, just not seeing the logic. My guess is they want all the trains refurbished before reopening the line. One thing to check off the list as Oct 1st approaches.

Either way busses are needed to offset the reduced capacity onboard the trains. Operationally it makes more sense to close the least used Line and replace with busses rather then reducing service on all lines with multiple bus routes needed

3 on each line and 3 in the roundhouse...

I don’t believe they’d ever go more than 4 on a line...especially after “the incident”

They’ve been running with 4 (5 while Poly was open) the automation allows it, though with 5 theres lots of hold times waiting for clearance into the next block

 

[donsullivan]

Sorry, I forgot the bean counters are running a business. Universal apparently is running a charity.

Gee, all these years I've been visiting Universal and I never knew they had a monorail and all the expenses and distancing issues that go along with that. It must have stealth technology so I've never seen it. Any time I've visited a resort there you mostly had to walk everywhere. The stations must be invisible too, or I didn't pay enough to get clearance to see or ride them.

You are demanding that everything be operating as if there was no Pandemic, no Poly construction, no social distancing requirements and no 70% reduction in total revenue to the Parks operations because you WANT fully operational monorails as if none of that was happening. Guess what, all of those things are happening and Disney has (and should) adapt to accommodate them with buses and other transportation. If it is that burdensome to you I would encourage you not to visit until everything returns to the level that suits your high standards.

 

[peter11435]

When I was there, the cars were presumably at 100% capacity, with dividers between the different sections. There was no one monitoring who was getting into which car or where they were sitting.

Courtesy of Allears.net https://allears.net/2021/01/13/photos-monorail-adds-dividers-to-increase-capacity-in-disney-world/

They are no where near 100%

 

[donsullivan]

They are no where near 100%

I haven't seen them anything close to 100% since they re-opened last summer. For a long while they were at less than 20% and even with the segment dividers recently added you're getting maybe 8 or 9 people into a cabin section that used to pack in 25-30 depending on strollers

 

[peter11435]

I haven't seen them anything close to 100% since they re-opened last summer. For a long while they were at less than 20% and even with the segment dividers recently added you're getting maybe 8 or 9 people into a cabin section that used to pack in 25-30 depending on strollers

Exactly. They are well under half capacity