is there a chance that the Magical Express will come back?

[_caleb]

Guys, bus service to resorts costs a lot of money and makes them no money. Other than pleasing a few disgruntled frequent guests, I don’t see any upside for Disney to bring the service back. Nobody is skipping WDW because there’s no free bus service anymore.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I'm aware that Mears always owned them and that it was easy to take on the task. That's not what I've been saying. I just think its strange that Disney used a poor excuse over why they were no longer going to be using Magical Express, instead of charging for it first, or just saying there was a contract dispute. But saying that less guests were using the busses and using Uber just isn't true. More people were using ride shares than before but guests still prefer to take those buses and are willing to pay for them. Thus, the success of Sunshine Flyer - and it appears more people preferred to use them than Mears. And Mears was able to recently acquire Sunshine Flyer. The demand is there. Especially now that those buses will drop off at non-Disney owned resorts. Why would someone stay at the Boardwalk Resort when they can stay for cheaper at Swan and Dolphin? The perks of staying at Disney owned are fading through Disney's own actions. The result of that is that more people are staying at non-Disney owned resorts for their trip. Which is taking money out of Disney's pockets. It's an odd decision for a company that seems to like to nickel and dime their visitors these days and who used to want to keep guests on their property for the duration.

I think you have both some generalities and some contradicting statements here, which actually would support shuttering DME.

I don't think there is an argument that since the DME was introduced, more people are using ride shares. That people in general have adopted these types of transportation options as part of their everyday lives.

The idea that guests still prefer to take buses comes from where? I would argue that people like the privacy of a single service Transporation to and from resorts. I would argue that people like the flexibility of scheduling exactly when they are getting picked up, including early morning departures from MCO, as opposed to just waiting for the next bus to your resort area. I would argue (and we fall in this category) that people like being able to be dropped off exactly where they want to go, either a park or their specific resort, as opposed to hitting multiple resorts before getting to your particular hotel.

Once you remove the luggage handling services from DME, other direct to location services are just more effective, more efficient, and allow more flexibility in planning your trip. I mean the "hit" on Disney is that people seem to complain that they are looking to monetize everything now adays. If there truly was a solid demand for this service, what is more likely, that Disney would keep and charge for it, or that they would just abandon it to allow others to make money off of it.

 

[jloucks]

Guys, bus service to resorts costs a lot of money and makes them no money. Other than pleasing a few disgruntled frequent guests, I don’t see any upside for Disney to bring the service back. Nobody is skipping WDW because there’s no free bus service anymore.

I think the best counter to this statement, and all the components therin, would be to ask yourself why they implemented the service in the first place?

People go to WDW for multiple reasons. Let's call those reasons features. You can remove a feature or three, but at some point, you remove enough features, and people are not going to go. DME was a feature and a nice one to boot. Alone, probably not a deal breaker, but add in all the other "cost savings," and that adds up.

I don't get how so many parents are cool with just loading their kids up and trusting an untested, uncertified, non-commercial rando stranger to drive them around via Lyft/Uber when there are (or were) way safer options.

 

[jloucks]

I think you have both some generalities and some contradicting statements here, which actually would support shuttering DME.

I don't think there is an argument that since the DME was introduced, more people are using ride shares. That people in general have adopted these types of transportation options as part of their everyday lives.

The idea that guests still prefer to take buses comes from where? I would argue that people like the privacy of a single service Transporation to and from resorts. I would argue that people like the flexibility of scheduling exactly when they are getting picked up, including early morning departures from MCO, as opposed to just waiting for the next bus to your resort area. I would argue (and we fall in this category) that people like being able to be dropped off exactly where they want to go, either a park or their specific resort, as opposed to hitting multiple resorts before getting to your particular hotel.

Once you remove the luggage handling services from DME, other direct to location services are just more effective, more efficient, and allow more flexibility in planning your trip. I mean the "hit" on Disney is that people seem to complain that they are looking to monetize everything now adays. If there truly was a solid demand for this service, what is more likely, that Disney would keep and charge for it, or that they would just abandon it to allow others to make money off of it.

If rideshare was free and safe, sure, this/these would be a good argument.

The idea that guests still prefer to take buses comes from the idea that DME was popular to the very end (or so I understand). In 2016, when I last rode it, it was super popular.

And sure, obviously once you remove the luggage handling, free fare, safety, and immersive experience from DME, the ride shares are more appealing.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I think the best counter to this statement, and all the components therin, would be to ask yourself why they implemented the service in the first place?

People go to WDW for multiple reasons. Let's call those reasons features. You can remove a feature or three, but at some point, you remove enough features, and people are not going to go. DME was a feature and a nice one to boot. Alone, probably not a deal breaker, but add in all the other "cost savings," and that adds up.

I don't get how so many parents are cool with just loading their kids up and trusting an untested, uncertified, non-commercial rando stranger to drive them around via Lyft/Uber when there are (or were) way safer options.

People have been getting into cabs for decades. Ride shares are an established part of life in almost any non-rural area in current American society. Hell, rather than slowing down, ride shares are starting to EXPAND their services to allow for younger individuals to use the service even without someone 18 or older.

The current market isn't what it was when DME was first introduced.

 

[jloucks]

People have been getting into cabs for decades. Ride shares are an established part of life in almost any non-rural area in current American society. Hell, rather than slowing down, ride shares are starting to EXPAND their services to allow for younger individuals to use the service even without someone 18 or older.

The current market isn't what it was when DME was first introduced.

Agreed, the market is not the same. But DME was not in decline <--- my core point.

Cab drivers have commercial licenses in most places.

Rideshares are anybody with a license.

Definitely not the same thing.

Don't get me wrong, I use Lyft/Uber when traveling alone or with adults. When I have kids with me, I use people with commercial licenses for safety reasons.

I have had some weird unsafe experiences with rideshare drivers.

Maybe I am just overly cautious tho, as I have not ever been injured by a rideshare operator.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I'm aware that Mears always owned them and that it was easy to take on the task. That's not what I've been saying. I just think its strange that Disney used a poor excuse over why they were no longer going to be using Magical Express, instead of charging for it first, or just saying there was a contract dispute. But saying that less guests were using the busses and using Uber just isn't true. More people were using ride shares than before but guests still prefer to take those buses and are willing to pay for them. Thus, the success of Sunshine Flyer - and it appears more people preferred to use them than Mears. And Mears was able to recently acquire Sunshine Flyer. The demand is there. Especially now that those buses will drop off at non-Disney owned resorts. Why would someone stay at the Boardwalk Resort when they can stay for cheaper at Swan and Dolphin? The perks of staying at Disney owned are fading through Disney's own actions. The result of that is that more people are staying at non-Disney owned resorts for their trip. Which is taking money out of Disney's pockets. It's an odd decision for a company that seems to like to nickel and dime their visitors these days and who used to want to keep guests on their property for the duration.

Because it isn't a small task to keep track of the buses, process the payments and deal with the personnel, maintain the buses when according to everyone it seems that they are barely able to maintain the ones they have, much less have to get them back to the barn if they breakdown on the highway between MCO and WDW. Plus many other reasons.

The real thing is that they saved millions of dollars not having to offer that service. Mears can handle the crappy stuff, Disney can just count their profits that are record high WITHOUT that service. And like I stated before if indeed the attendance is declining it isn't because they stopped the Magical Mystery Bus. They have one less thing worry or pay for and it isn't hurting their wallet even a little. Will it someday? No, not because of the bus. They managed to grow and expand to four parks for 31+years without it. What will hurt them is the cost to get into the parks to begin with and the constant nickel and dimming they do and workday demands to follow procedure to even get a chance to fully enjoy it once you get past the main gate that is going to take it's toll eventually,

My belief always was if one can afford the ticket, the food and the lodging, you can afford to pay someone to take you there from the airport or rent a car. It's a minor amount compared to everything else. And Mears knows that if they want to keep running the WDW run they need to have Disney themed buses to do it properly. Fortunately for them they already have those.

 

[JIMINYCR]

Agreed, the market is not the same. But DME was not in decline <--- my core point.

Cab drivers have commercial licenses in most places.

Rideshares are anybody with a license.

Definitely not the same thing.

Don't get me wrong, I use Lyft/Uber when traveling alone or with adults. When I have kids with me, I use people with commercial licenses for safety reasons.

I have had some weird unsafe experiences with rideshare drivers.

Maybe I am just overly cautious tho, as I have not ever been injured by a rideshare operator.

Commercial or regular license, its all about the skills and driving habits of the driver you get. Whatever class license they hold to drive, you are trusting your life in the hands of another human being and you have no control over the outcome once you step inside. Over the years Ive had more cabbies who drove recklessly than Uber. And with Uber Ive had more reliability of when they showed up to get me on time to make appointments.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think the best counter to this statement, and all the components therin, would be to ask yourself why they implemented the service in the first place?

People go to WDW for multiple reasons. Let's call those reasons features. You can remove a feature or three, but at some point, you remove enough features, and people are not going to go. DME was a feature and a nice one to boot. Alone, probably not a deal breaker, but add in all the other "cost savings," and that adds up.

I don't get how so many parents are cool with just loading their kids up and trusting an untested, uncertified, non-commercial rando stranger to drive them around via Lyft/Uber when there are (or were) way safer options.

I already explained why they started it. When people were driving there or renting cars the were not shackled to the property they devised a way to keep people and their money close by. It wasn't rocket science but it was a degree of hassle to arrange transportation to Universal which at the time was starting to flex it's muscle a little. It got even more useful, but less necessary after they ended the non-expiring tickets. By then they had managed to convince everyone that had stayed onsite that there wasn't anyway that one could experience the complete Disney magic if they didn't stay at a Disney resort. They had everyone solidly when they made that a common thought.

So you would stay onsite, eat all you meals there and not venture out which was fine for people that only wanted to go to Disney, but that didn't make up the entire human race. Many of us like to see other things besides a 5 foot mouse no matter how entertaining that is. Many of us didn't want to pay $50.00 for a $20.00 meal and many more of us didn't want to pay $600.00 for a $300.00 or less room. So along came Uber and Lyft and made it possible to do other things, save a lot of money and maybe still put their children through college.

A resort room may be nicely appointed but I can get that anywhere. I'd be using the resort as a base camp to utilize what the parks and the reason that I was there to begin with had to offer. The reality is that all the rest of the cost savings cuts are what will eventually be the downfall, not some standard bus ride from the airport. Like I said in a previous post the lack of the free bus will be a topic of discussion for as long as the last adult generation is still going there but will be forgotten in less than a decade. But if the work, money and time required to even have half the experience we used to have doesn't get simplified and affordable soon that is what is going to take the shine off a trip to Disney.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Commercial or regular license, its all about the skills and driving habits of the driver you get. Whatever class license they hold to drive, you are trusting your life in the hands of another human being and you have no control over the outcome once you step inside. Over the years Ive had more cabbies who drove recklessly than Uber. And with Uber Ive had more reliability of when they showed up to get me on time to make appointments.

Believe me as a supervisor for a busing company there is no guarantee that they will be skilled. Just passed the simplest of tests to get that commercial license and once no one was watching them, you would think that they got their experience in demolition derby's.

Even sometimes when they were being watched it happened. I can't tell you how many times when I was doing the yearly driver reviews where I rode with them and even told them I was there to evaluate them, I had to fail them, retrain and try again. Two shots and you were out, but not every organizations have those standards.

 

[LeighM]

I think you have both some generalities and some contradicting statements here, which actually would support shuttering DME.

I don't think there is an argument that since the DME was introduced, more people are using ride shares. That people in general have adopted these types of transportation options as part of their everyday lives.

The idea that guests still prefer to take buses comes from where? I would argue that people like the privacy of a single service Transporation to and from resorts. I would argue that people like the flexibility of scheduling exactly when they are getting picked up, including early morning departures from MCO, as opposed to just waiting for the next bus to your resort area. I would argue (and we fall in this category) that people like being able to be dropped off exactly where they want to go, either a park or their specific resort, as opposed to hitting multiple resorts before getting to your particular hotel.

Once you remove the luggage handling services from DME, other direct to location services are just more effective, more efficient, and allow more flexibility in planning your trip. I mean the "hit" on Disney is that people seem to complain that they are looking to monetize everything now adays. If there truly was a solid demand for this service, what is more likely, that Disney would keep and charge for it, or that they would just abandon it to allow others to make money off of it.

I don't see where anything I wrote is contradictory as I'm not arguing a certain point or care either way LOL. Disney's decision just doesn't make sense to me. Of course, more people are using rideshare services than before because it didn't largely exist before - it was just taxis. It's still not common in my town. But a large number of guests who are flying in are still using the buses depending on the size of the family and what makes financial sense for them. For many, that's their first Disney "attraction" that lets them know they've entered the Disney bubble. And I get the idea that guests still prefer to take buses from my own personal experience, my friends and family, the number of people I've seen in various FB groups and websites complain about the ending of Magical Express, the number of complaints I've seen about people who now have to pay for something that was once free, and the fact that Mears (and formerly Sunshine Flyer) were able to continue the service and expand it. I have seen many people complain about the increased costs of ride shares at MCO and that it can be cheaper for them to wait longer and just ride the shuttle. If such a large percentage of people were using rideshares instead of DME, why would Mears continue with the service? And they are offering 24/7 service and have expanded to the new Terminal C. Why would any of that have happened if there was LESS demand for it? A lot of the single women I know who travel to Disney would rather stay overnight at the airport than get into a stranger's car in the middle of the night. The Disney buses are a much safer option. It's even something that Mears and Sunshine have promoted. Maybe it's just our town that's paranoid because women were murdered by a serial killer and rapist who picked them up in his taxi. But it does make us think twice before we get into a car with someone we don't know and for the women I know back home, the time saved in getting to Disney isn't worth it.

 

[_caleb]

I think the best counter to this statement, and all the components therin, would be to ask yourself why they implemented the service in the first place?

People go to WDW for multiple reasons. Let's call those reasons features. You can remove a feature or three, but at some point, you remove enough features, and people are not going to go. DME was a feature and a nice one to boot. Alone, probably not a deal breaker, but add in all the other "cost savings," and that adds up.

I don't get how so many parents are cool with just loading their kids up and trusting an untested, uncertified, non-commercial rando stranger to drive them around via Lyft/Uber when there are (or were) way safer options.

To be clear, I'm not defending Disney's decision to cut DME. I still see it as just another example of Disney providing less and charging more. I completely agree that this alone isn't a dealbreaker, but how many features can they possibly cut before everyone realizes there's not enough value left?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It once was a very convenient service that guests used and not having to handle the bags at all was very helpful. Waiting for the buses to leave the airport and then make their way to multiple resorts til they got to yours made guests turn to Uber/Lyft for more timely service. This meant having the ability to check in and hit the parks faster. Guests dont care as much about the expense for the ride when it means faster more reliable service and getting that vacation started. They now are using Uber/Lyft so much in their daily lives that I dont see DME being the attractive service they will turn back to.
I think when it started that Disney was looking at it as a service they were going to provide short term anyway, so I'm doubtful it will make its way back.

Uber and Lyft are a nightmare for families of 3+. They're also a nightmare for families who need one or more car seats. They're not a viable option for the vast majority of Walt Disney World guests.

Guys, bus service to resorts costs a lot of money and makes them no money.

That... is not correct. When I rent a car, I go to the grocery store for cases of water and bananas, at a minimum. When I don't rent a car, I buy all of my water and breakfasts from Disney.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I don't see where anything I wrote is contradictory as I'm not arguing a certain point or care either way LOL. Disney's decision just doesn't make sense to me. Of course, more people are using rideshare services than before because it didn't largely exist before - it was just taxis. It's still not common in my town. But a large number of guests who are flying in are still using the buses depending on the size of the family and what makes financial sense for them. For many, that's their first Disney "attraction" that lets them know they've entered the Disney bubble. And I get the idea that guests still prefer to take buses from my own personal experience, my friends and family, the number of people I've seen in various FB groups and websites complain about the ending of Magical Express, the number of complaints I've seen about people who now have to pay for something that was once free, and the fact that Mears (and formerly Sunshine Flyer) were able to continue the service and expand it. I have seen many people complain about the increased costs of ride shares at MCO and that it can be cheaper for them to wait longer and just ride the shuttle. If such a large percentage of people were using rideshares instead of DME, why would Mears continue with the service? And they are offering 24/7 service and have expanded to the new Terminal C. Why would any of that have happened if there was LESS demand for it? A lot of the single women I know who travel to Disney would rather stay overnight at the airport than get into a stranger's car in the middle of the night. The Disney buses are a much safer option. It's even something that Mears and Sunshine have promoted. Maybe it's just our town that's paranoid because women were murdered by a serial killer and rapist who picked them up in his taxi. But it does make us think twice before we get into a car with someone we don't know and for the women I know back home, the time saved in getting to Disney isn't worth it.

The contradiction in my mind was acknowledging the increase in alternate methods of Transporation, while not seeing that as an impact on the need/market for the DME, even if some people still wanted to use it.

As to why Mears would want to continue to use it, there is a big difference between a company marketing a service for profit, based upon their main business (transportation) vs. an entertainment company maintaining a free for customer service, and in fact paying for its operations to a third party, for it.

Was it a great feature, sure. me and the family loved it. But most of the time we were riding on a half empty bus, stopping at 3 different resorts, while one or two families only got off at each location. But from a business perspective it's a lose leader. When it was a method of securing guests on property as Goofy describes above, it could be seen as a valuable one. But once alternative transportation methods made it easier to enter/leave the bubble its value in that regard lessened.

 

[_caleb]

That... is not correct. When I rent a car, I go to the grocery store for cases of water and bananas, at a minimum. When I don't rent a car, I buy all of my water and breakfasts from Disney.

You’re telling me that what Disney brings in selling water and bananas to customers trapped onsite makes maintaining a fleet of shuttle busses and staff a profitable enterprise?

 

[LeighM]

The contradiction in my mind was acknowledging the increase in alternate methods of Transporation, while not seeing that as an impact on the need/market for the DME, even if some people still wanted to use it.

As to why Mears would want to continue to use it, there is a big difference between a company marketing a service for profit, based upon their main business (transportation) vs. an entertainment company maintaining a free for customer service, and in fact paying for its operations to a third party, for it.

Was it a great feature, sure. me and the family loved it. But most of the time we were riding on a half empty bus, stopping at 3 different resorts, while one or two families only got off at each location. But from a business perspective it's a lose leader. When it was a method of securing guests on property as Goofy describes above, it could be seen as a valuable one. But once alternative transportation methods made it easier to enter/leave the bubble its value in that regard lessened.

I still don't think there's a huge percentage of repeat Disney visitors going to Universal but staying at a Disney resort, etc. Most of the people I know are true Disney people and have no interest in going to Universal. Mostly they aren't into thrill rides, have young children, or have handicapped in their party. The costs of Universal just aren't a good value to them. They have the connection to Disney. The people that I know who go to Universal are mostly staying off site at a 3rd party hotel. They don't really care about staying at a Universal Resort and the extra expense it comes with because they usually split their trips between Universal and Disney and rent a car. The true theme park lovers that I know, stay at Universal resorts when they do their parks and then stay at a Disney resort when they do WDW. I think it depends on what type of traveler you are. I do think that a lot of Disney's recent decisions are not focused on that lifelong Disney fan. I don't know if the company is taking that for granted or if they are purposely trying to move in another direction with their future fan base. Which is why their recent decisions haven't made any sense to me. A lot of people I know who grew up on Disney, myself included, no longer have the desire to go back to WDW every year. And my experience has always been different to yours. Every single time I've ridden Magical Express, there was a long wait for every bus route with a full bus each time. I have yet to experience what you're describing. I usually arrived between the hours of 10AM and 6PM.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You’re telling me that what Disney brings in selling water and bananas to customers trapped onsite makes maintaining a fleet of shuttle busses and staff a profitable enterprise?

They weren't Disney's buses and they weren't Disney's staff, first of all. It was an outsourced service.

But yes, the marginal value of a captive guest is higher than the per-passenger cost to Disney of Magical Express, at least since they returned to free parking for resort guests. Cutting Magical Express made sense financially when they were charging for parking, because then they'd either have parking fee revenue or the parking fee would dissuade enough people from renting a car even without DME that they'd be "captive guests" either way.

 

[bjlc57]

Guys, bus service to resorts costs a lot of money and makes them no money. Other than pleasing a few disgruntled frequent guests, I don’t see any upside for Disney to bring the service back. Nobody is skipping WDW because there’s no free bus service anymore.

i disagree.. as the attendance in the park may prove you wrong.. you just don't feel the magic.. and the busses helped you feel the magic..

 

[jloucks]

You’re telling me that what Disney brings in selling water and bananas to customers trapped onsite makes maintaining a fleet of shuttle busses and staff a profitable enterprise?

Not shuttle buses. Big ole busses with bathrooms, TVs, and comfy seats. And not a fleet. Like, what, guessing, 4 of them? They ran hourly right? 1-2 hour round trip? I suppose, anything more than 1 is a fleet.

50 seats on a bus.

A banana and water costs $6.

One banana & water per passenger = $300 income per bus. (before bus gas, driver, and $1 a mile maintenance). Which would be about $50 (rounding up) per leg. That is $250 profit, and that is being very very generous as most captives buy more than a banana and water. A lot more.

I still don't think there's a huge percentage of repeat Disney visitors going to Universal but staying at a Disney resort, etc. Most of the people I know are true Disney people and have no interest in going to Universal. Mostly they aren't into thrill rides, have young children, or have handicapped in their party. The costs of Universal just aren't a good value to them. They have the connection to Disney. The people that I know who go to Universal are mostly staying off site at a 3rd party hotel. They don't really care about staying at a Universal Resort and the extra expense it comes with because they usually split their trips between Universal and Disney and rent a car. The true theme park lovers that I know, stay at Universal resorts when they do their parks and then stay at a Disney resort when they do WDW. I think it depends on what type of traveler you are. I do think that a lot of Disney's recent decisions are not focused on that lifelong Disney fan. I don't know if the company is taking that for granted or if they are purposely trying to move in another direction with their future fan base. Which is why their recent decisions haven't made any sense to me. A lot of people I know who grew up on Disney, myself included, no longer have the desire to go back to WDW every year. And my experience has always been different to yours. Every single time I've ridden Magical Express, there was a long wait for every bus route with a full bus each time. I have yet to experience what you're describing. I usually arrived between the hours of 10AM and 6PM.

I understand that my habits are not indicative of most people, but we found that splitting venues worked out great once our kids were a little older and enjoyed the UNI offerings as well as WDW.

The UNI resorts are awesome (desirable) for their walkability to the parks, affordable-ish lodging, and more thrilling rides. We like both WDW and UNI resorts, and on a typical trip would spend 2-3 days at UNI and then 4-5 days at WDW.

I agree that Disney is not targeting lifelong fans. In fact, it seems quite the opposite. I suspect lifers just don't spend enough to be a target. Well, most lifers.... I spend a boat load every visit. Spent. I have no return plans atm.

 

[DisneyHead123]

If you Google “Mears transportation profit”, it looks like they make around $150 - $200-ish million in profit a year.

Maybe it was worth it for Disney to just let them have that piece of the pie vs taking on the associated startup costs. Staffing may have been an issue as well, with labor shortages. I wouldn’t rule out Disney offering a competing service in the future though, or re-partnering with Mears. It’s still a potential revenue stream for them in a world where Wall Street wants profits growing constantly. And they have better ability to advertise and push the service when people are booking vacation packages, potentially increasing revenue elsewhere by keeping more people onsite.