Is Disney starting to lose that genuine quality for you?

[csmat99]

People have been asking that question going back to the USENET net.disney days. If it wasn't true in the 1980s, and it wasn't true the 1990s, and wasn't true in the 2000s, then why would it suddenly be true in the 2010s?

Rather, individual people become jaded. They become proprietary. And they become ornery. So those individual people start seeing things in a negative light. Just like there were people like that ten or twenty years earlier, when the newly-negative first visited WDW and fell in love with the place.

It's true of all aspects of life: Your marriage; your job/career; your neighborhood; your church; etc. Remaining interested and satisfied is half "them" and half "you". If you don't do the work to remain engaged and excited, then you won't. You'll become disillusioned, and your relationships - with a loved one, with friends, with the work you do, with the people around you, and with the things that you find interesting and entertaining - will deteriorate.

I couldn't disagree more. If you actually have been to Disney since the 70's you would know the parks today are nothing like they used to be. Corporate greed has shaped how the parks are run. IP's over great story telling. Cast members not being taken care of and in turn aren't providing the best service. The prices are through the roof across the board but they cut back on hours and re-investment back in the parks. To be frankly honest only reason we have been seeing new rides is because of Universal/Comcast and the 50th coming up. For almost a decade nothing major was added to any park. My family and I used to go at least twice a year for almost 12 years but eventually coming back to same thing gets old and make you reevaluate how to spend your money. So going maybe every 2 years has been plenty. If you need concrete example the first Halloween ticketed event was like 20-30 bucks per person and you never had to wait more than 5 minutes to get on a ride and it was only on Halloween night. Now they start in August and end in November and average over $100 per ticket. This takes away 44 nights in just over 3 month window from pass-holders and guests who don't want to pay extra for free sodas and cookies.

 

[John park hopper]

I couldn't disagree more. If you actually have been to Disney since the 70's you would know the parks today are nothing like they used to be. Corporate greed has shaped how the parks are run. IP's over great story telling. Cast members not being taken care of and in turn aren't providing the best service. The prices are through the roof across the board but they cut back on hours and re-investment back in the parks. To be frankly honest only reason we have been seeing new rides is because of Universal/Comcast and the 50th coming up. For almost a decade nothing major was added to any park. My family and I used to go at least twice a year for almost 12 years but eventually coming back to same thing gets old and make you reevaluate how to spend your money. So going maybe every 2 years has been plenty. If you need concrete example the first Halloween ticketed event was like 20-30 bucks per person and you never had to wait more than 5 minutes to get on a ride and it was only on Halloween night. Now they start in August and end in November and average over $100 per ticket. This takes away 44 nights in just over 3 month window from pass-holders and guests who don't want to pay extra for free sodas and cookies.

if you are paying extra those sodas and cookies ain't free. Agree with you it sure isn't the Disney of the 70's when I first went.

 

[FettFan]

The problem with your logic is that you are presuming that those who are making the decision that Disney is even more valuable than it was ten years ago (by paying the higher prices this year, in greater numbers than those who paid lower prices ten years ago) are not "normal" (and that you, who feel differently, presumably are "normal"?)

"Normal" is subjective, so let's not use that as our standard, shall we?

There are two types of Disney visitor: the hardcore Disney fans who are almost obsessive when it comes to the "Disney Difference" (and who I would think would be well over 90% of the posters on this and other Disney forums) and the passive visitors who ostensibly see Disney as just another vacation destination and don't see it as being any different than any other amusement park (Carowinds, Kennywood, Silver Dollar City, any of the Six Flags parks, etc. )

The passive visitors don't really care about long term trends. They find out the cost of a vacation, budget for that vacation, and then take the vacation and return home. As soon as they get home, they typically don't think about Disney.
They don't care if an AP price has jumped $150 on a whim, and why would they? They weren't AP holders in the first place.
They don't care that the Everest Yeti hasn't moved in 11 years, and why would they? They still enjoyed the big drop and the backwards section of track.
They don't care that instead of being updated and refreshed, classic attractions are gutted to make way for the new popular thing, and why would they? They loved Guardians of the Galaxy (formerly Universe of Energy/Ellen's Energy Adventure) and it's only natural that Disney World have a Mickey Mouse ride (formerly the Great Movie Ride).

But to the hardcore Disney fans, it all matters. We care that Star Wars was turned into such a sacred cow that it's been shoved into every bit of free space at DHS, sometimes to the detriment of other attractions (ideally, Runaway Railway should have been put in the old animation building, but Star Wars was too much of a cash cow to close the Launch Bay).
We care that TDO, in the name of appealing to the masses, royally sold out Epcot Center's mission statement for popular trends (with the current debate on climate change and advancements in alternative energy sources, Universe of Energy was set for a 21st century revival....but why challenge the audience to consider real world issues and run the risk of making them feel bad, when one can just make them feel good by selling them a plastic dancing Groot and a Rocket Raccoon plushie?)


In the end, it's the hardcore fans that demand Disney hold true to its roots and the vaunted "Disney Difference", but that's not the audience that the Disney Company wants. They're focusing on short-term gains rather than long-term strategy; they're not really looking past those quarterly reports.




And don't ding me on the "Overprivileged Brazilians" quote. Because they are in fact a. From Brazil (a fact that they advertise through their matching clothing featuring colors of Brazil's flag) and b. they are very much overprivileged, thinking they can do whatever the hell they want even when cast members tell them otherwise, as evidenced last week when a swarm of them decided to stand up and start leaving the Living with the Land boats before the final stop, and refused to sit down even when being confronted directly by the cast members at the load station.

 

[FettFan]

I just know when I went in 2001-2005 it was less crowded, cleaner, cheaper and more magical. Was that the recession?

Well, Bob Iger took over in 2006....

 

[starri42]

Well, Bob Iger took over in 2006....

But they were also dealing with an extreme downturn in tourism that started with 9/11 and was perpetuated by the Iraq War and some international health crises, most notably SARS. I worked in the industry at the time. 2005 was around the time prices started to rise again.

There are two types of Disney visitor: the hardcore Disney fans who are almost obsessive when it comes to the "Disney Difference" (and who I would think would be well over 90% of the posters on this and other Disney forums) and the passive visitors who ostensibly see Disney as just another vacation destination and don't see it as being any different than any other amusement park (Carowinds, Kennywood, Silver Dollar City, any of the Six Flags parks, etc. )

Is it not possible to be a bit of both? I'm fully cognizant that Disney is different than most of the other parks, and I'm utterly fascinated by the Imagineering process and the history of how Disney has built up their parks. And yeah, I can be ensorcelled by the Magic as much as anyone.

But at the same time, even though I have the luxury of taking a moderately expensive vacation each year, I wouldn't chose the spend each one of those at Disney. I'm actually going twice this year, and the only reason for that was I managed to snag a relatively cheap last minute trip when some prior plans fell through, and my husband and I had already planned to take what will likely be his only trip to a Disney property in December. And I'm going to Paris and Amsterdam by myself in the fall, and will probably go to Disneyland Paris for a day, just for the point of saying I've been. But that's extremely unusual. I'm 41 and hadn't been since I was a teen.

 

[RobWDW1971]

In the end, it's the hardcore fans that demand Disney hold true to its roots and the vaunted "Disney Difference", but that's not the audience that the Disney Company wants. They're focusing on short-term gains rather than long-term strategy; they're not really looking past those quarterly reports.

It's because they know they already have the hardcore fans and we will all, like the lemmings we are, continue to pay for vacations there fueled by our nostalgia of "what it was" and the everlasting hope of "what it will be". They get their cake and eat it too - they can build Pixar Pier to get people to come see the new shiny object and those of us who realize what a travesty it is still go and just complain about it. It's an enviable position they have created for themselves. Now, when the Disney fans stop showing up and spending, that will be interesting to watch....

 

[bUU]

I couldn't disagree more. If you actually have been to Disney since the 70's you would know the parks today are nothing like they used to be.

So basically you didn't like what I wrote so you decided to argue against something I didn't write.

How does that make sense?

(It doesn't.)

Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis. ("Times change, we also are changed with them".)

Of course, some people choose to not change with the times and are left behind, as if in a fog, continually angry at what they experience in the world. Don't let yourself become that person.

Disney is as it always has been - the best at offering this kind of entertainment. It has, very remarkably - and through some clever moves by folks like Eisner and Iger - remained in one piece, solidly pursuing a vision for itself that is both fueled by the past and continually renewed so they can take on the future that will come no matter what anyone wants. Omnia mutantur. ("Everything changes.")

Cast members not being taken care of and in turn aren't providing the best service.

Even though most of what you wrote wasn't worth replying to, I had to reply to this: Our friend was Cinderella back in the '70s (that decade of the Magic Kingdom that you rather lamely attempted to try to make it seem like I was not aware of). She was treated no better. And just like today's ill-treated cast members do, she provided the best service anyway. Your casual and rather juvenile attempt to cast aspersions on the good work of today's cast members, who are over-worked and under-paid for our benefit, is reprehensible.

 

[bUU]

"Normal" is subjective, so let's not use that as our standard, shall we?

You are the one who brought up "normal":

Any normal person would leave their local movie theater and go find an AMC.

So it seems that you're changing your argument now, given that it didn't really hold water.

There are two types of Disney visitor: the hardcore Disney fans who are almost obsessive when it comes to the "Disney Difference" (and who I would think would be well over 90% of the posters on this and other Disney forums) and the passive visitors who ostensibly see Disney as just another vacation destination and don't see it as being any different than any other amusement park (Carowinds, Kennywood, Silver Dollar City, any of the Six Flags parks, etc. )

I bet you think the "obsessive" "hardcore Disney fans" should matter to the company more than the families that visit every few years and the casual fans that together make up more than 90% of those who visit the resort.

The passive visitors don't really care about long term trends.

The purchasing behaviors of the families that visit every few years and of the casual fans are what craft the long term trends. That's what some of the "obsessive" "hardcore Disney fans" whine about.

But to the hardcore Disney fans, it all matters.

It all matters to everyone, even if they don't realize it, but the point is not whether it "matters" but rather whether someone allows themselves to become so enamored with their own vision of how things were/are/should be that they get lost in that fog I mentioned above - a detachment from the reality that renders their perspective on the matter irrelevant.

In the end, it's the hardcore fans that demand Disney hold true to its roots and the vaunted "Disney Difference", but that's not the audience that the Disney Company wants.

Nor is it the audience that Disney should pursue, since so very few of the "hardcore Disney fans" are "obsessive" as you've described. You're trying to imply that the preferences of a small minority of a small minority should trump the preferences of the majority of the small minority and also trump the preferences of the majority.

They're focusing on short-term gains rather than long-term strategy; they're not really looking past those quarterly reports.

No; they are. You need to come to a point where you can see that just because a different decision is made from that which you would have preferred that that doesn't mean that that decision is incorrect or evil.

And don't ding me on the "Overprivileged Brazilians" quote.

I already did, and for the same reason I just outlined: You're trying to imply that the preferences of a small minority of a small minority should trump the preferences of the majority of the small minority and also trump the preferences of the majority. You're trying to defend your perspective by trying to disparage what other people prefer. That sort of argument will never hold water, and the more you cling to that kind of thinking the more you are setting yourself up for continual disappointment, not just in Disney but (if you engage in that kind of thinking more generally) in life itself.

 

[bUU]

I'm fully cognizant that Disney is different than most of the other parks, and I'm utterly fascinated by the Imagineering process and the history of how Disney has built up their parks. And yeah, I can be ensorcelled by the Magic as much as anyone.
But at the same time, even though I have the luxury of taking a moderately expensive vacation each year, I wouldn't chose the spend each one of those at Disney. I'm actually going twice this year, and the only reason for that was I managed to snag a relatively cheap last minute trip when some prior plans fell through, and my husband and I had already planned to take what will likely be his only trip to a Disney property in December. And I'm going to Paris and Amsterdam by myself in the fall, and will probably go to Disneyland Paris for a day, just for the point of saying I've been. But that's extremely unusual. I'm 41 and hadn't been since I was a teen.

You and I are part of that "majority of the small minority" I referred to, above. To be honest, you're even more firmly in that "majority of the small minority" and I'm closer to the irrational small minority of the small minority that FettFan, csmat99, etc., represent, since my spouse and I are spending a few hundred thousand dollars this year at least in some tiny part to feed our Disney-love.

I think it is really important to keep in perspective, as you suggest, where we all are in this spectrum of guests.

 

[xdan0920]

You and I are part of that "majority of the small minority" I referred to, above. To be honest, you're even more firmly in that "majority of the small minority" and I'm closer to the irrational small minority of the small minority that FettFan, csmat99, etc., represent, since my spouse and I are spending a few hundred thousand dollars this year at least in some tiny part to feed our Disney-love.

I think it is really important to keep in perspective, as you suggest, where we all are in this spectrum of guests.

A few hundred thousand dollars. On Disney? Care to elaborate?

 

[bUU]

A few hundred thousand dollars. On Disney? Care to elaborate?

We're moving to Four Corners (five miles from Maingate), again, "at least in some tiny part to feed our Disney-love."

 

[JusticeDisney]

I think WDW is as great as it has ever been. Sure things are different, but there’s nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. I suspect that if most of us were children now and experienced this version of WDW for the first time through a child’s eye, we would love it just as much as we did when we actually were children. Bottom line, to me the place is absolutely phenomenal. I don’t believe the complaints you see here in forums like this are representative of the general public at large.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We (my wife and I), still very much enjoy going. However, I attribute that to the fact that we adapted with the way WDW has changed i.e higher prices and crowds.

1. Buying DVC worked for us and now we dont have to worry any longer about resort prices being insane. Our contract allows for appx 12-14 nights per year in a studio room. We bought a resale at BWV and it had triple points which gave us basically a free years worth of points that were banked. If my math was correct, that equaled out to appx $4,500 in what we would have paid for the same amount of nights at a deluxe resort for the year using AP discount. Purchasing DVC has probly been the biggest help for us. When you book a 7 day trip for a deluxe resort and dont have to pay anything, it really takes the sting out of the cost of a WDW trip.

2. Annual Pass. Even before we had DVC, it was a no brainer to get AP's since we visited often enough. The discounts definitely add up over the course of a year.

3. Taking it slow! Having DVC and AP's helps with not getting the Disney blues when we leave because we can plan another trip (if its not already planned). Being able to visit frequently allows you to not feel the need to rush around and ride as many rides as possible. We have had many days which we rode less than 3 rides for the whole day and still had a great time strolling around, eating, drinking, shopping, people watching, etc. And taking a break in the middle of the day to swim at the pool, relax around the resort or try a new dining spot is a great way to slow down the day.

DVC is not for everyone, but it made sense for us not only financially but just for the relaxation it can allow you to have with your trips. There is so much more to enjoy at WDW besides attractions. But I will admit that all of the planning required for a family that is visiting once or twice a year can be nerve wracking.

This is me...and I agree.

Except now the dvc price is no longer any sort of value...the availability is a lot tougher. And though an AP is not as costly as a daily price...the outlay is starting to outpace the point of an AP: which is to drive higher profit ancillary spending for Disney.

Good short term management - atrocious longterm

I couldn't disagree more. If you actually have been to Disney since the 70's you would know the parks today are nothing like they used to be. Corporate greed has shaped how the parks are run. IP's over great story telling. Cast members not being taken care of and in turn aren't providing the best service. The prices are through the roof across the board but they cut back on hours and re-investment back in the parks. To be frankly honest only reason we have been seeing new rides is because of Universal/Comcast and the 50th coming up. For almost a decade nothing major was added to any park. My family and I used to go at least twice a year for almost 12 years but eventually coming back to same thing gets old and make you reevaluate how to spend your money. So going maybe every 2 years has been plenty. If you need concrete example the first Halloween ticketed event was like 20-30 bucks per person and you never had to wait more than 5 minutes to get on a ride and it was only on Halloween night. Now they start in August and end in November and average over $100 per ticket. This takes away 44 nights in just over 3 month window from pass-holders and guests who don't want to pay extra for free sodas and cookies.

There is a definite difference in quality and value. Whether or not that is inevitable is the question?

On the 44 nights of Halloween parties and the profiteering, I agree...but you won’t win this fight against the praetorians.

If you say it’s overpriced and not worth it...you get “personal choice!! You don’t have to buy it”

If you say it cuts into the day in MUCH higher fall crowds than 10, 20 years ago...you get “just go to the Halloween party and it’s great! It’s worth it!”

You can’t win when the “rule” is never insult them or call them greedy. Which is often the case (NOT always)

A few hundred thousand dollars. On Disney? Care to elaborate?

I was curious...then I got the answer and started laughing

We're moving to Four Corners (five miles from Maingate), again, "at least in some tiny part to feed our Disney-love."

Lol...moving close to disney world is NOT spending on Disney.

It does speak to an obsession though. It’s a window into the soul.

I think WDW is as great as it has ever been. Sure things are different, but there’s nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. I suspect that if most of us were children now and experienced this version of WDW for the first time through a child’s eye, we would love it just as much as we did when we actually were children. Bottom line, to me the place is absolutely phenomenal. I don’t believe the complaints you see here in forums like this are representative of the general public at large.

You are of course wrong...but what does it matter?

 

[JusticeDisney]

This is me...and I agree.

Except now the dvc price is not longer any sort of value...the availability is a lot tougher. And though an AP is not as costly as a daily price...the outlay is starting to outpace the point of an AP: which is to drive higher profit ancillary spending for Disney.

Good short term management - atrocious longterm

There is a definite difference in quality and value. Whether or not that is inevitable is the question?

On the 44 nights of Halloween parties and the profiteering, I agree...but you won’t win this fight against the praetorians.

If you say it’s overpriced and not worth it...you get “personal choice!! You don’t have to buy it”

If you say it cuts into the day in MUCH higher fall crowds than 10, 20 years ago...you get “just go to the Halloween party and it’s great! It’s worth it!”

You can’t win when the “rule” is never insult them or call them greedy. Which is often the case (NOT always)

I was curious...then I got the answer and started laughing

Lol...moving close to disney world is NOT spending on Disney.

It does speak to an obsession though. It’s a window into the soul.

You are of course wrong...but what does it matter?

Hey, the know-nothing troll is back!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Hey, the know-nothing troll is back!

You speak with a lack of knowledge, insight and wisdom that is truly astounding.

You think that the general public has nothing to say about the pricing these days? That is competely living inside a Disney self created bubble.

I don’t blame you though...I don’t believe you’re experienced enough to have the right perspective. But I guess that’s not “on you”

Never considering anyone else’s perspectives is...however.

Enjoy “wishes, Magic and dreams” today

 

[JusticeDisney]

You speak with a lack of knowledge, insight and wisdom that is truly astounding.

You think that the general public has nothing to say about the pricing these days? That is competely living inside a Disney self created bubble.

I don’t blame you though...I don’t believe you’re experienced enough to have the right perspective. But I guess that’s not “on you”

Never considering anyone else perspectives is...however.

Enjoy “wishes, Magic and dreams” today

Your complete lack of reading comprehension is truly astounding! And what allows us all here to laugh at you so consistently! So please, keep posting incomprehensible gibberish, so the rest of us can be so entertained.

 

[crawale]

So what do you guys feel about the present and future of Disney and its parks?

The parks will be priced out of the reach of regular families - almost there now. The cost of tickets, hotels just goes up and up and not just a little. Too many special events. We started going to the parks in 1985 and it was so different. Even with DVC and Florida residency it has become ridiculous - can't imagine the cost if you have neither.

 

[xdan0920]

We're moving to Four Corners (five miles from Maingate), again, "at least in some tiny part to feed our Disney-love."

Ahhhh

The picture becomes clear. You’re buying a home based on its proximity to an amusement park complex. That explains the almost personal nature of your defense of TWDC. You have to defend it, or else, what on earth are you doing.

 

[bUU]

Lol...moving close to disney world is NOT spending on Disney.
It does speak to an obsession though. It’s a window into the soul.

Wow. So, in your mind, it both matters and doesn't matter, depending on how each supports different parts of your inane prattle. How conveeeeeeeenient!

The reality, of course, is what I wrote, that you were responding to. People like starri42 better reflect the typical Disney guest than people like you and those who agree with you do. And I fit somewhere in between... a bit closer to the irrational obsessiveness that you exhibit, but only a bit closer.

You are of course wrong...but what does it matter?

Translation: "You have different preferences than I have, but to stroke my ego I have to believe that my preferences are 'right' and yours are 'wrong'."

You think that the general public has nothing to say about the pricing these days?

He didn't say that. The reality is that the general public does have something to say about Disney's price increases over the last ten years: They ratify those increases, even though you hate that reality.

Never considering anyone else’s perspectives is...however.

Oh my, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

Here's a test for you: Post a link to a comment within which you state that something Disney did that you didn't like was actually the correct decision.

I bet you can't.

 

[bUU]

The parks will be priced out of the reach of regular families - almost there now.

But that's precisely the point: The parks will not be "priced out of the reach of regular families" because Disney has shown over and over for decades that they will keep prices "almost" out of reach, but still within reach - in other words, exactly where a business is supposed to keep pricing.