bUU
Well-Known Member
Yes, "clocked". Like I said, it is useful to keep in mind that difference between our personal impressions and that of the broader population.
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Is Disney starting to lose that genuine quality for you?
- Thread starter KBLovedDisney
- Start date
My first time in MK was 1972 (I wasn't quite 3 years old and tbh, no idea what my perception was). I've been paying for visits (which is when your perception typically changes) since 84. I was a rich teenager. I mowed lawns, power washed boats, and when I was old enough I became a concessionist at the AMC Regency 8 (its now some ungodly number of small screens) off of Hwy 60 in Brandon, Florida. Since my mid 20s all of my trips have been from further afield (Albuquerque, Batesville, Arkansas, central Indiana) and since my mid 30s I've been paying for my nuclear family and every 2-3 years I've used DVC points to provide lodging for a big family reunion on one side or the other. Disney has changed in 5 big ways.
1) A visit requires planning now. I don't mind this, but I'm fairly social and always talk to people when I'm on vacation. A lot of people still haven't adjusted. My heart really went out to a couple a few weeks ago who tried to use the fastpass at Flight of Passage and had somehow come to the conclusion that fastpass worked on the fairness doctrine and since they had waited the day before they would get to fastpass the attraction the following day. I'm sure it was some kind of weird mis-understanding. My father in law (in laws are from Wisconsin and retired to Fort Myers about 20 years ago) still doesn't understand that the way you get to eat in a "fancy" restaurant at WDW is to make a reservation half a year or months advance. These are two completely random examples of literally hundreds I could give. They were just fresh on my mind due to a recent trip and a recent conversation. I should note there are a subset of people with jobs that don't use computers that don't understand anything about the way things are organized now. I've lost track of how many of these people I talked to.
2) Prices used to range from middling to high and now they range from high to absurdist.
3) Instead of having the parks open for longer hours to the general public they now sell many of those hours as an upcharge. My family did the Toy Story breakfast thing a week or two ago. It was fine. I liked the breakfast. I liked riding Midway Mania enough that we could actually get competitive on our scores. But really, I would have preferred 7 am extra magic hour in the morning and having the whole 3 other rides in the park at our disposal. On July 3rd we stayed at MK until 2am, midnight close and EMH until 2am. When my children were too small to take advantage, this used to be a regular thing during the non-slow season. Now, if they aren't selling it, they act like the greatest thing in history is happening.
4) It used to be the thematic IP of the resort or theme park drove the development of the area. If some outside IP owned by the company fit in, it was fine. But, it wasn't shoe horned in. Now, external, movie IP drives the development of the resort as a whole, providing the movie IP met some bar at the box office.
5) Things aren't quite as well maintained as they used to be. As a result, I think they get backlogged with complaints now. They did respond to the email I sent below after a week, but they called me when I was at work and I couldn't talk. Also, I didn't even mention the morning that drying machines in the grandstand section didn't work and I had to haul wet laundry to the resorts main area. They hadn't been working for a while, but no one could be bothered with an "out of order" sign. I learned this from talking to staff at Saratoga and found that lint screens being raised at a jaunty angle were supposed to be the signal that the dryers weren't working.
"Hello All. My name is Hobart Misdemeanor. I am a DVC member that owns at Beach Club and Wilderness Lodge (the old section). We just got back from a recent vacation. It was pretty short and we were busy (06/29-07/04), so I never got around to mentioning the issues with our room. These were mostly minor, but they did impact the quality of our vacation. First, the vent fan in the bathroom was on at all times. There seemed to be no way to turn it off. Second, when the light in the bathroom was turned on, it flickered and changed brightness at a frequency that made one feel like they were being hypnotized. Third, the refrigerator was so far from being level that it literally wobbled from side to side. This meant you always had to remember to hold the body in place while opening the door. I tried to level the footies myself, but that turned out to be impossible. I would recommend just a few cardboard coasters under the left front footie. Fourth, the two larger drawers under the TV did not open well. They required a lot of force and didn't seem that well put together. As a result, we didn't use them. At least two of the drawer pulls were missing or had little screws that were loose. Thus, the drawer pulls weren't on that well.
We did enjoy our vacation. I am sorry that I didn't mention these issues while we were there, but I hope they will be corrected for future tenants of unit 9505."
In the final analysis, how one feels about each of these issues will determine how one feels about WDW at the moment.
1) A visit requires planning now. I don't mind this, but I'm fairly social and always talk to people when I'm on vacation. A lot of people still haven't adjusted. My heart really went out to a couple a few weeks ago who tried to use the fastpass at Flight of Passage and had somehow come to the conclusion that fastpass worked on the fairness doctrine and since they had waited the day before they would get to fastpass the attraction the following day. I'm sure it was some kind of weird mis-understanding. My father in law (in laws are from Wisconsin and retired to Fort Myers about 20 years ago) still doesn't understand that the way you get to eat in a "fancy" restaurant at WDW is to make a reservation half a year or months advance. These are two completely random examples of literally hundreds I could give. They were just fresh on my mind due to a recent trip and a recent conversation. I should note there are a subset of people with jobs that don't use computers that don't understand anything about the way things are organized now. I've lost track of how many of these people I talked to.
2) Prices used to range from middling to high and now they range from high to absurdist.
3) Instead of having the parks open for longer hours to the general public they now sell many of those hours as an upcharge. My family did the Toy Story breakfast thing a week or two ago. It was fine. I liked the breakfast. I liked riding Midway Mania enough that we could actually get competitive on our scores. But really, I would have preferred 7 am extra magic hour in the morning and having the whole 3 other rides in the park at our disposal. On July 3rd we stayed at MK until 2am, midnight close and EMH until 2am. When my children were too small to take advantage, this used to be a regular thing during the non-slow season. Now, if they aren't selling it, they act like the greatest thing in history is happening.
4) It used to be the thematic IP of the resort or theme park drove the development of the area. If some outside IP owned by the company fit in, it was fine. But, it wasn't shoe horned in. Now, external, movie IP drives the development of the resort as a whole, providing the movie IP met some bar at the box office.
5) Things aren't quite as well maintained as they used to be. As a result, I think they get backlogged with complaints now. They did respond to the email I sent below after a week, but they called me when I was at work and I couldn't talk. Also, I didn't even mention the morning that drying machines in the grandstand section didn't work and I had to haul wet laundry to the resorts main area. They hadn't been working for a while, but no one could be bothered with an "out of order" sign. I learned this from talking to staff at Saratoga and found that lint screens being raised at a jaunty angle were supposed to be the signal that the dryers weren't working.
"Hello All. My name is Hobart Misdemeanor. I am a DVC member that owns at Beach Club and Wilderness Lodge (the old section). We just got back from a recent vacation. It was pretty short and we were busy (06/29-07/04), so I never got around to mentioning the issues with our room. These were mostly minor, but they did impact the quality of our vacation. First, the vent fan in the bathroom was on at all times. There seemed to be no way to turn it off. Second, when the light in the bathroom was turned on, it flickered and changed brightness at a frequency that made one feel like they were being hypnotized. Third, the refrigerator was so far from being level that it literally wobbled from side to side. This meant you always had to remember to hold the body in place while opening the door. I tried to level the footies myself, but that turned out to be impossible. I would recommend just a few cardboard coasters under the left front footie. Fourth, the two larger drawers under the TV did not open well. They required a lot of force and didn't seem that well put together. As a result, we didn't use them. At least two of the drawer pulls were missing or had little screws that were loose. Thus, the drawer pulls weren't on that well.
We did enjoy our vacation. I am sorry that I didn't mention these issues while we were there, but I hope they will be corrected for future tenants of unit 9505."
In the final analysis, how one feels about each of these issues will determine how one feels about WDW at the moment.
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Well, apparently you're supposed to use any information you can get your hands on about the broader population to form your opinion.
rk03221
Well-Known Member
I think Disney is doing much much better than the Eisner years. Everything Iger has done to the parks has been top notch quality, Eisner was cheap in that regard. Say what you want but new fantasyland and pandora are incredible. The company is still trying to clean up Eisners mess
Minnie1976
Well-Known Member
It is too much work. Fast passes and tiers need to go.
Whatever you say, Bob...
rreading
Well-Known Member
I don't think that I would disagree with this post...and this conclusion is spot-on. However, taking each paragraph point-by-point, I find that the devil is in the details...
Regarding his points:
1) Can't dispute this one, but it's the way the world currently works Apparently you need to reserve a spots to go to the Eiffel Tower and other major tourist attractions (so far as I understand - haven't been to Europe in a decade). For sure in the US, you are recommended to reserve the Old Faithful Inn in Yellowstone a year out as soon as they open up for reservation. It's over $300/night and no a/c despite it getting pretty warm even around Memorial Day. Fundamentally, it's supply and demand. Supply is constrained so demand rises.
2) True, but see #1. If the prices didn't rise, then demand would be worse than it is. Separately, I'm astounded by the prices of food everywhere else. If you don't see it at home, then you're lucky.
3) Again, this is true. I used to be amazed how late the parks were open, and I don't expect that there is a very good ROI to be up after 11PM. Not that this is a great comparison, but our local Six Flags over Texas' hours are 10:30-10PM tonight. During the week they close at 9PM.
4) I feel that we see this if we are looking for it.
Epcot has the Rat filling in an appropriate space, and in England there seems to be discussion about what could fit best. Certainly Future World is beset by changes but until recently, Mission Space and Test Track would be appropriate enough were they not replacements for other great things. Soarin' is IP-free. And then there's GOTG (but I still have yet to learn enough about it to know whether on some level it could fit).
MK's biggest expansions are Tron (not a wise choice to me, but a thematic fit and certainly not a lucrative IP choice) and 7DMT, which is also not an IP cash cow. Fitting the muppets into Liberty Square doesn't bother me either.
AK is generally not IP driven. Clearly Pandora is an IP but it wasn't their IP.
HS...sigh. Hopefully they figure it out, but TOT is still generally great if they will keep it maintained.
5) As a DVC member, I'm used to hearing this complaint, and so I'm sensitive to watching out for wiggly handles. Usually I don't find them, and when they are an issue, I notify the staff while I'm there. It's been said correctly that there is little time to fix things due to room utilization, and truly this is not a WDW issue. Were there more staff for maintenance on DVC properties, it should be paid in dues by the DVC members. ymmv, but generally I've been more than satisfied with my DVC ownership and stays.
So while I respect and generally agree with your post, I think that this is the world we live in.
I still love WDW as do my kids, and even my parents still enjoy going with us. I feel that WDW as a whole continues to be a top-notch product...and while we may not prefer change, that's the nature of the world at large.
rreading
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with his point. The changes are expensive (and to some, misguided), but have been top notch. The tangled bathrooms are some of the best-themed bathrooms you're going to find anywhere. Sure 7DMT could/should be longer but it's quality is amazing. I don't love the Circus area but it is well done. I enjoyed the idea of Maelstrom but the ride was not amazing; the Frozen ride did as much with the limited space as conceivably possible (Maelstrom was pretty basic - the best thing about it was the eye of Oden on the way up the ramp).
What has been done domestically (besides Pixar Pier) that hasn't been gorgeous?
RobWDW1971
Well-Known Member
rreading
Well-Known Member
LOL. Fair enough. I haven't been out west since it's been done. It sure is distinctive, but my impression is that DCA has been going in the wrong direction over the last few years.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Toy Story Land would like a word.
KikoKea
Well-Known Member
I choose #2. For us, it has been the decline of the parks in ways both large and small. For example, far too many years, HS has been a half-day park, and Epcot barely holds our interest for more than a few hours, and a visit now requires detailed planning 60 days out to get 'good' FPs...and even then some rides are unavailable within a few days. The parks are dirty, which we notice every trip. Thirty years ago, sweepers were out constantly sweeping up trash, and the bathrooms were much cleaner. (I was pregnant and endured quite a lot of morning sickness and saw the toilets up close and personal many times that trip!) I'm glad they are finally adding attractions, but it is long past due.
That said, the parks are still of enough value to us that we will continue to go, for now. We have, though, been debating whether to renew our AP or to take a break from WDW.
That said, the parks are still of enough value to us that we will continue to go, for now. We have, though, been debating whether to renew our AP or to take a break from WDW.
rk03221
Well-Known Member
There is nothing wrong with taking a break. My wife and I were cms at wdw and we went fairly often...with that being said we won’t be going back for a long time (maybe to mk for the 50th?). But there are so many other new amazing Disney places to go and explore that’s what we’re doing. Our plan is to do a Disney Cruise and visit Disneyland Paris in the next 2-3 years. Again this is personal opinion
FettFan
Well-Known Member
I don't think you quite get what "losing value for money" actually means. It's not about tourism spikes from overprivileged Brazilians.
No, it's about prices going up but quality going down.
Imagine if you were a customer at a local movie theater and you noticed a decline in quality.... to save a few pennies, they start bagging up unsold popcorn for the next day. Okay, not a major problem. But then to save more pennies, they decide to cut hours.....movie theaters are now being cleaned after every third showing instead after every movie. You walk in and there's coke splashed on the floor, and something sticky on the armrest, which you're praying to God it's melted candy and nothing biological. Speaking of biological, in the pale walkway light, you see two rats fighting over a Twizzler.
Then the movie starts, and there's a noticeable flicker from the projector; the picture on the screen periodically lightens and darkens at random. On top of that, the "Dolby Surround Sound" isn't clear and there's a faint yet distinct crackling and scratching noise coming from the speakers.
But then....without fixing any of these issues, your local movie theater raises the price of a ticket by $3. Instead of $9, the new movie ticket price is $12.
The popcorn is stale, the theaters are typically dirty, the speakers still don't work, and there is still that projector that either needs repair or replacement.
Any normal person would leave their local movie theater and go find an AMC.
That's what he means by "losing value for money".
bUU
Well-Known Member
Quite the opposite: I knew exactly what it means and what it means has nothing to do with what one individual person perceives. Rather, the "value for money" of something is shaped by the marketplace entire.
Including even "overprivileged Brazilians".
Quality is a subjective determination which, like value, is determined by a consensus of the marketplace, not what one individual person perceives.
The problem with your logic is that you are presuming that those who are making the decision that Disney is even more valuable than it was ten years ago (by paying the higher prices this year, in greater numbers than those who paid lower prices ten years ago) are not "normal" (and that you, who feel differently, presumably are "normal"?)
KikoKea
Well-Known Member
You are right. We've been to Tokyo and DL, enjoying both very much, and plan to return. We have Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Paris on our list, as well as some other non-Disney parks we've never visited. Our grown children want us to go on a Disney cruise next Spring- never been on a cruise and not sure about being on a boat, but we are up for it, if they plan it.
We (my wife and I), still very much enjoy going. However, I attribute that to the fact that we adapted with the way WDW has changed i.e higher prices and crowds.
1. Buying DVC worked for us and now we dont have to worry any longer about resort prices being insane. Our contract allows for appx 12-14 nights per year in a studio room. We bought a resale at BWV and it had triple points which gave us basically a free years worth of points that were banked. If my math was correct, that equaled out to appx $4,500 in what we would have paid for the same amount of nights at a deluxe resort for the year using AP discount. Purchasing DVC has probly been the biggest help for us. When you book a 7 day trip for a deluxe resort and dont have to pay anything, it really takes the sting out of the cost of a WDW trip.
2. Annual Pass. Even before we had DVC, it was a no brainer to get AP's since we visited often enough. The discounts definitely add up over the course of a year.
3. Taking it slow! Having DVC and AP's helps with not getting the Disney blues when we leave because we can plan another trip (if its not already planned). Being able to visit frequently allows you to not feel the need to rush around and ride as many rides as possible. We have had many days which we rode less than 3 rides for the whole day and still had a great time strolling around, eating, drinking, shopping, people watching, etc. And taking a break in the middle of the day to swim at the pool, relax around the resort or try a new dining spot is a great way to slow down the day.
DVC is not for everyone, but it made sense for us not only financially but just for the relaxation it can allow you to have with your trips. There is so much more to enjoy at WDW besides attractions. But I will admit that all of the planning required for a family that is visiting once or twice a year can be nerve wracking.
1. Buying DVC worked for us and now we dont have to worry any longer about resort prices being insane. Our contract allows for appx 12-14 nights per year in a studio room. We bought a resale at BWV and it had triple points which gave us basically a free years worth of points that were banked. If my math was correct, that equaled out to appx $4,500 in what we would have paid for the same amount of nights at a deluxe resort for the year using AP discount. Purchasing DVC has probly been the biggest help for us. When you book a 7 day trip for a deluxe resort and dont have to pay anything, it really takes the sting out of the cost of a WDW trip.
2. Annual Pass. Even before we had DVC, it was a no brainer to get AP's since we visited often enough. The discounts definitely add up over the course of a year.
3. Taking it slow! Having DVC and AP's helps with not getting the Disney blues when we leave because we can plan another trip (if its not already planned). Being able to visit frequently allows you to not feel the need to rush around and ride as many rides as possible. We have had many days which we rode less than 3 rides for the whole day and still had a great time strolling around, eating, drinking, shopping, people watching, etc. And taking a break in the middle of the day to swim at the pool, relax around the resort or try a new dining spot is a great way to slow down the day.
DVC is not for everyone, but it made sense for us not only financially but just for the relaxation it can allow you to have with your trips. There is so much more to enjoy at WDW besides attractions. But I will admit that all of the planning required for a family that is visiting once or twice a year can be nerve wracking.