Is Disney Paying Its Fair Share in Orlando?

[Goofyernmost]

I moved here for a job 7 years ago. WDW had never even crossed my mind. Had never been there.
Obviously that’s changed now. Hopefully there’s not that many people addicted to WDW that they’d move solely for it.

As long as you assume that the 60K+ CM's were born there in Central Florida, otherwise, I think there is a flaw in your thinking.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Sorry, but you don't get to define general Florida borders---- they are established and understood. We can all see that that island chain doesn't fit your narrative of bashing the entire state minus Mouse......better to be more fair about this.

Next you might tell us how you don't consider Hawaii as a bonafide part of the USA since the islands are deep in the Pacific.

Think what you want. Hawaii is much better than any state in the US for beach going, so from that perspective, it's really a footnote it's even part of the US. It's nothing like any state in the US. I love the USA, by the way.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Don't get worked up engaging someone who is stupid enough to trash the state.

Easy there partner. I never "trashed" the entire state. I just said Disney basically puts it on the map and Florida benefits from Disney more than the other way around. If you took out WDW, Florida's tourism goes in the tank.

 

[Damon7777]

As long as you assume that the 60K+ CM's were born there in Central Florida, otherwise, I think there is a flaw in your thinking.

Ironically your reply is the one that lacks logic. NearTheEars merely gave a personal experience to support the idea that people do indeed populate Florida irrespective of being Disney guests or employees.

You built up a phantom argument and placed it on that poster and then tried to challenge it.......not very sporting of you.

 

[MichRX7]

Exactly. There's millions of tourists who visit Florida without Disney.. and millions and millions of residents who didn't move to Florida "for Disney".

There is life outside of Orlando, a thriving one.lol

Right, and if Disney and other theme parks weren't there we wouldn't have any life in Orlando. The coasts on each side would be the only cities with people in them.

 

[21stamps]

Easy there partner. I never "trashed" the entire state. I just said Disney basically puts it on the map and Florida benefits from Disney more than the other way around. If you took out WDW, Florida's tourism goes in the tank.

I don't think you're considering how popular other spots in the state actually are.

I know you said that "Miami was a dump". If you stayed near the airport then I'd agree with you, if you were in South Beach then your eyes must have been closed.

That entire area- from Palm Beach, Ft Lauderdale, Miami Beach, South Beach- are some of the most popular destinations. They would be just fine without Disney. I have serious doubts that any of the 6million+ people who live in the area actually live there because they're 4 hours from WDW.

The Keys are part of Florida, boasting the only living reef in the continental U.S. They have some of the best dive sites in the world.
They would also do fine without Disney.

Henry Flagler built the East Coast into an amazing destination, long before Walt Disney ever came to Florida.

I love Disney, but seriously people overestimate their impact on tourism and growth in other parts of that state.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I don't think you're considering how popular other spots in the state actually are.

I know you said that "Miami was a dump". If you stayed near the airport then I'd agree with you, if you were in South Beach then your eyes must have been closed.

That entire area- from Palm Beach, Ft Lauderdale, Miami Beach, South Beach- are some of the most popular destinations. They would be just fine without Disney.

The Keys are part of Florida, boasting the only living reef in the continental U.S. They have some of the best dive sites in the world.
They would also do fine without Disney.

Flagler built the East Coast into an amazing destination, long before Walt Disney ever came to Florida.

I love Disney, but seriously people overestimate their impact on tourism in other parts of that state.

You're not wrong about Miami. People really like it, but it's high crime and there are some very "dumpy" parts of it. South Beach is overrated and crowded, but it is beautiful in its own way. That's a tiny part of Miami. The rest is pretty rough. I'm sure it would do fine without Disney, but A LOT of people fly through Miami's insanely busy airport (Hub for South America) on their way to Disney.

The Keys, as I said, are physically removed from Florida. Yes, it's technically part of Florida, but it's part of Florida like the Virgin Islands are part of the US. They would also do fine.

So I'll give you Miami and the Keys, but nothing else is impressive. Orlando would be nothing without Disney.

 

[21stamps]

You're not wrong about Miami. People really like it, but it's high crime and there are some very "dumpy" parts of it. South Beach is overrated and crowded, but it is beautiful in its own way. I'm sure it would do fine without Disney, but A LOT of people fly through Miami on their way to Disney.

The Keys, as I said, are physically removed from Florida. Yes, it's technically part of Florida, but it's part of Florida like the Virgin Islands are part of the US. They would also do fine.

So I'll give you Miami and the Keys, but nothing else is impressive. Orlando would be nothing without Disney.

Not even Palm Beach? Seriously, at least admit that one.lol. It's actually much prettier than Miami (imo, different vibes). But I lump all of it together, I'm talking South Florida in general.

I agree that Orlando would not be a city without Disney.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Not even Palm Beach? Seriously, at least admit that one.

I agree that Orlando would not be a city without Disney.

Yes, it's not bad. I spent only a day there is a kid (incidentally after a trip to Disney).

If I'm doing a beach, I'd much rather be in a more exotic location if I have to fly there. If I live in Florida, I'm sure West Palm Beach would be good for convenience. If I have a 2-3 hr flight, I'm going to the Caymans.

 

[21stamps]

Yes, it's not bad. I spent only a day there is a kid (incidentally after a trip to Disney).

If I'm doing a beach, I'd much rather be in a more exotic location if I have to fly there. If I live in Florida, I'm sure West Palm Beach would be good for convenience. If I have a 2-3 hr flight, I'm going to the Caymans.

Different types of vacations. That whole chunk of Florida is amazing. Just had to point out the popularity- from population to tourism.

And again, don't judge Palm Beach from West Palm. They aren't the same. One's an island.
But both have plenty of beauty.

ETA- I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that Walt Disney didn't build Florida. There's a lot of fun and gorgeous history there that has nothing to do with Walt.

 

[Damon7777]

To add on to 21 Stamps
there have been thousands upon thousands who have visited Florida just for Universal alone due to Potter or due to Potter as the centerpiece to their vacation with "filler" time at Sea World, Legoland and other spots.
I even heard tale of select Brits flying over just to experience setups like Machinegun America

 

[Chef Mickey]

Furthermore there have been thousands upon thousands who have visited Florida just for Universal alone due to Potter or due to Potter as the centerpiece to their vacation with "filler" time at Sea World, Legoland and other spots.
I even heard tale of select Brits flying over just to experience setups like Machinegun America

Judging by real attendance figures, Disney World is the centerpiece for most vacations to Orlando. Of course people go to Orlando just for Universal, but it's the exception. WDW gets around 55M visitors annually. Universal/IoA are <20M. It's basically 3:1 Disney.

 

[Damon7777]

I'm thinking you might have your stat wrong, so I can't outright refute it.
But my understanding is that the aporox 60 mill is all of Central Florida tourists/vacationers, not just Disney. But you could be accurate.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I'm thinking you might have your stat wrong, so I can't outright refute it.
But my understanding is that the aporox 60 mill is all of Central Florida tourists/vacationers, not just Disney. But you could be accurate.

My numbers are right. Disney dominates attendance worldwide, but particularly in Florida.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Even w/o Disney FL is a great state. Low taxes and regulation. Plenty of establishments from a variety of cultures. Golf. Beaches. Hunting. So much more. I personally love WDW and go every week, but I also appreciate other parts of the state too. Miami is great. My parents are Cuban and I can speak nothing but Spanish for a week while I'm there. That's another thing. Families from PR and Cuba come here because so many people already speak their language. Miami is a nice city. Just like everywhere, it has slums. But overall, Florida is a diverse, underrated, beautiful state.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Ironically your reply is the one that lacks logic. NearTheEars merely gave a personal experience to support the idea that people do indeed populate Florida irrespective of being Disney guests or employees.

You built up a phantom argument and placed it on that poster and then tried to challenge it.......not very sporting of you.

Since I specifically said 60K+ CM's I fail to see how that constitutes contradicting the argument that people populated Florida irrespective of being Disney. Of course, people populated some of Florida and mostly for the weather and escape from northern winters. And then there was that guy that was in search of the Fountain of Youth. At this point, any other place besides beach areas would be just retirement communities. Do they provide income to Florida... of course they do. Do the provide the degree of income to Florida that WDW does... not even close. So I have to wonder which one of us has a problem with logic. The good thing about tourists is that they swoop in, drop a load of money, and head out as quickly as they came in. They use services for the brief time they are there and are gone. Those that moved there for retirement reasons stay and use a ton of services and spend no more then what is necessary for life for the most part. They are a continuous draw on those services. Ask McDonalds how much money they make with a gang of walker pushers that occupy tables and sit for hours drinking free coffee and taking packs of sugar, creamers and ketchup home in their pockets. And that is coming from a 70 year old, retired person who watched his parents do that for years. Without WDW kick starting the temporary population to go to Florida, just for fun, Florida would be primarily a place where people go to die.

 

[21stamps]

Even w/o Disney FL is a great state. Low taxes and regulation. Plenty of establishments from a variety of cultures. Golf. Beaches. Hunting. So much more. I personally love WDW and go every week, but I also appreciate other parts of the state too. Miami is great. My parents are Cuban and I can speak nothing but Spanish for a week while I'm there. That's another thing. Families from PR and Cuba come here because so many people already speak their language. Miami is a nice city. Just like everywhere, it has slums. But overall, Florida is a diverse, underrated, beautiful state.

This is what I miss the most. I can be in SoFla, have a con leche with a delicious and real Cuban sandwich from a corner deli, where only Spanish is spoken..
Later on I can go a couple blocks away and have a shawarma in a deli where mostly Hebrew is spoken..
or go to a small store nearby where mostly Portuguese is spoken, and I can buy picanha to cook on the grill..
Or maybe a Japanese deli for an eel to cook and a bottle of plum wine... etc etc etc.
Then for desert, I can stop by a small gelato shop, where I'll mostly hear Italian.
All the while never more than a few blocks away from the ocean, in gorgeous weather.

There is a magic in that. One that not even Disney can replicate.

 

[21stamps]

Since I specifically said 60K+ CM's I fail to see how that constitutes contradicting the argument that people populated Florida irrespective of being Disney. Of course, people populated some of Florida and mostly for the weather and escape from northern winters. And then there was that guy that was in search of the Fountain of Youth. At this point, any other place besides beach areas would be just retirement communities. Do they provide income to Florida... of course they do. Do the provide the degree of income to Florida that WDW does... not even close. So I have to wonder which one of us has a problem with logic. The good thing about tourists is that they swoop in, drop a load of money, and head out as quickly as they came in. They use services for the brief time they are there and are gone. Those that moved there for retirement reasons stay and use a ton of services and spend no more then what is necessary for life for the most part. They are a continuous draw on those services. Ask McDonalds how much money they make with a gang of walker pushers that occupy tables and sit for hours drinking free coffee and taking packs of sugar, creamers and ketchup home in their pockets. And that is coming from a 70 year old, retired person who watched his parents do that for years. Without WDW kick starting the temporary population to go to Florida, just for fun, Florida would be primarily a place where people go to die.

I didn't realize so many people had this misconception of Florida. Read about Henry Flagler, his development of Florida is fascinating. Especially connecting the Keys.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I didn't realize so many people had this misconception of Florida. Read about Henry Flagler, his development of Florida is fascinating. Especially connecting the Keys.

Henry Flagler developed the part of Florida he developed because rich northerners want posh places to go for the winter. There was nothing automatically attractive about swamps and giant bugs. He also felt that building that railroad through the keys would make him rich. South Beach was not a draw back then like it is now. It was transportation that allowed that to happen and because people wanted an escape it was at least partially successful. People moved to that area of Florida to fill the service positions required to cater to the rich folk.

 

[21stamps]

Henry Flagler developed the part of Florida he developed because rich northerners want posh places to go for the winter. There was nothing automatically attractive about swamps and giant bugs. He also felt that building that railroad through the keys would make him rich. South Beach was not a draw back then like it is now. It was transportation that allowed that to happen and because people wanted an escape it was at least partially successful. People moved to that area of Florida to fill the service positions required to cater to the rich folk.

He was a very rich man. Yes, many service people lived near the railroad and occupied service positions for the tourism that his railroad and hotels brought to the east coast.
Key West was already booming, his plan to connect it was one of the best things that could happen.

South Beach has been a draw for many years. The Art Deco District was built in the '30s.

All of this would have continued in tourism, popularity, and growth with or without Disney World.

You can attribute Central Florida to Walt, but not the coastal cities. The history of Orlando and the history of other parts of Florida do not go hand in hand.
It's an amazing state in that it has all of that and the parks