Is Disney Expensive?

[draybook]

I don't give a hoot about "original" ideas or whether or not there is too much "IP" in the park, crowds are a mix blessing for me, while I'm not loving the long lines, the reality is that I'm an investor. packed crowds helps my bottom line.

This says it all...

 

[disneyflush]

Yes it is. It used to be much more affordable. Disney is making it harder and harder for middle class families to come. They are targeting upper middle class and wealthy families.

What is the least amount of income a family would need to earn in order to feel like a full week at WDW is affordable? I know there are tons of factors. If your annual income was $200,000 would spending $10,000 on a trip to WDW be affordable? If your annual income was $60,000 would spending $4,000 for a week be a deal? Its hard to qualify the affordability levels of a WDW vacation across a range of incomes given we all save/spend/earn at different capacities.

 

[eliza61nyc]

This says it all...

lol, Yes of course, people hear invest in things so they can lose money. good luck with that.

 

[GlassHalfFull]

As an AP in Cincinnati, I make it down 3 or 4 times a year.. I still have my Soccer Season tickets, but other than that I have decided my other entertainment dollars should walk down to the place my wife and I truly find our happy place in.. Not the Reds or Bengals anymore, and once every 2 years we do a trip somewhere else on top of our trips to Central Florida(I still can't get her on a Plane for Tokyo, or France having last been there in 2006 for the WC and DLP).. as a semi recent College Grad we have made it a priority to get away... We are well ahead on student loan payments, but we often cut out eating at nice restaurants, or going to the movies except on value days, knowing the 3 weeks away from town that we can do in Florida is well worth the pinching we are doing until the Student Debt is completely gone.. We fly frontier when the deals exist, and spread out our park days so at most we are eating 1 meal a day in park...

and for those thinking, well some of us don't make that much money.. I can assure you we are not in the top 10%.. we just prioritize things like most in this thread have said they do..

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My apologies, I was the one who used the appliances analogy
I didnt mean to open it as a dispute. We were just postulating on the relevance of its history on what it is today.
As you say history is history. I'll add contemporary is contemporary .
It's now a deluxe resort. Is is what it is.

I gotcha...I’m not disputing your argument or points. My main beef is the “luxury” label. That’s a hoax from the historical record...it just is. People pay it...but it doesn’t make it true. This conversation goes for weeks.

Why does the semantics matter?
3 reasons:
1. Caribbean
2. Pop
3. Art of animation

 

[draybook]

lol, Yes of course, people hear invest in things so they can lose money. good luck with that.

Lots of us have an interest in Disney. That doesn't excuse the lowering of quality as a sacrifice for higher profits. Use all the emojis you want, that's a fact.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I gotcha...I’m not disputing your argument or points. My main beef is the “luxury” label. That’s a hoax from the historical record...it just is. People pay it...but it doesn’t make it true. This conversation goes for weeks.

Why does the semantics matter?
3 reasons:
1. Caribbean
2. Pop
3. Art of animation

In my humble opinion compared to POP, Motel 6 is a luxury hotel. The thing is that we as individuals cannot make up the definition of luxury. Comparatively, to the dumps originally on 192, the Poly was absolutely a luxury hotel. It was defined by design, room sizes, prices and proximity to the things that people wanted to get too. Also the transportation offered to get from your room to those places, so you are wrong... in the 70's when the place opened it could very easily be thought of as a luxury hotel. Back then a hotel was usually defined as a multi-storied building with inside access to the rooms. One with the design of the Poly was considered posh and high living. It still is... what I'm saying is that you are not seeing the "historic" Poly for what it was. Clean, pleasant with tons of amenities. More of a hotel laying on it's side. However, no matter what they call it, no place is worth $600.00 a night just to sleep in. So it is overpriced and taking advantage of those that can be convinced that there is something wildly extra to be done for all the money. I really didn't consider it a luxury hotel then and I surely do not now. But, it is and was, comparatively, a luxury location when compared to its immediate alternatives. And really what does it matter. You pay and go or you don't pay and go elsewhere. There is no black and white answer.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In my humble opinion compared to POP, Motel 6 is a luxury hotel. The thing is that we as individuals cannot make up the definition of luxury. Comparatively, to the dumps originally on 192, the Poly was absolutely a luxury hotel. It was defined by design, room sizes, prices and proximity to the things that people wanted to get too. Also the transportation offered to get from your room to those places, so you are wrong... in the 70's when the place opened it could very easily be thought of as a luxury hotel. Back then a hotel was usually defined as a multi-storied building with inside access to the rooms. One with the design of the Poly was considered posh and high living. It still is... what I'm saying is that you are not seeing the "historic" Poly for what it was. Clean, pleasant with tons of amenities. More of a hotel laying on it's side. However, no matter what they call it, no place is worth $600.00 a night just to sleep in. So it is overpriced and taking advantage of those that can be convinced that there is something wildly extra to be done for all the money. I really didn't consider it a luxury hotel then and I surely do not now. But, it is and was, comparatively, a luxury location when compared to its immediate alternatives. And really what does it matter. You pay and go or you don't pay and go elsewhere. There is no black and white answer.

The poly and contemp were designed and priced specifically to target the core clientele...which was the standard middle class of the 60’s who traveled one week per year or every few years.

The class system starts in 1988 and didn’t get truly out of control till 2004. That’s the facts...worked in the strategic planning segment of resorts. That’s it...you can tell campfire stories now...but they’re just that.

Now why I said Pop...is because they’re gonna slap a “premium” label on it next year because you won’t have to ride a bus. Cheaply constructed concrete monstrositys meant to be $50 a night. That’s what Pop is (hint: I was there for the planning/construction of that too)...but let’s see how it plays.

It’s just inflation anyway...

Poly:
1992: $119
1999: $189
2004: $240
2010: $350
Present: $495

 

[eliza61nyc]

Lots of us have an interest in Disney. That doesn't excuse the lowering of quality as a sacrifice for higher profits. Use all the emojis you want, that's a fact.

Im not making excuses at all. I don't call the shots. Whether you think the lowering the quality is a good excuse or not is really not the issues.
Disney is a for profit enterprise with a executive board who evidently feel that what they are doing is the way to go. Now you feel quality has been "lowered". That's you, evidently not enough because the parks are parcked. Which yes makes me happy.
And no sorry its not a fact because many people don't think the quality has been not decreased.
I do like smilies though.

 

[eliza61nyc]

So op like many threads they veer off target.
So my answer is pretty simple.
1) yes imo Disney is expensive.
2) no matter what the original intent was , like many things its morphed.
3) there are tons of ways to economize
4) only you can say what is of worth to you and your family.
5) a trip to Disney is not a GOD given right. At this time imo Disneys management seems to embrace squeezing every drop of profit from their product. That's why they were hired and since it doesn't seem Iger is going any where I expect that trend to continue

 

[xdan0920]

So when folks say "vote with your dollars " its not being snarky or flippant.

Eh.

Vote with your dollars is such a silly take. Venting about out of control prices with like minded people isn’t some crime.

My property taxes are over 10k a year. No one is forcing me to live in Northern NJ, so technically I could vote with my wallet and leave. Does that mean I can’t complain about my taxes?

the parks are parcked. Which yes makes me happy.

Weird take. You getting a cut of those ticket sales?

 

[JohnD]

I don't want to get into any crazy arguments and chaos or anything, but our family took a vacation last weekend and it occurred to me to compare the cost of this vacation we took to a Disney vacation. Why? Well...we went to NYC for a couple nights and saw a couple shows on Broadway. Those who have followed my trip reports or been in discussions with me know that I do tend to enjoy a little Pixie Dust, but also come at things as a realist (25 years in public education will make you nothing if not a realist...). These costs are for our party of 3 - considered adults in Disney terms and in NYC it makes no difference! So, here's a little comparison from our perspective.

Travel (round trip)
WDW - 26 hours in the car, no tolls, about 4 full tanks of gas (thank you hybrid), and 4 fast food meals - $180
NYC - 8 hours in the car, lots of tolls, just over a full tank of gas, and some snacks - $110

Hotel (comparing like quality and Easter weekend)
WDW - in the middle of the action, but cheap - All-Star resorts for 2 nights - $410
NYC - Times Square area, cheap but not nasty! - for 2 nights $600

Parking
WDW - at an All-Star for 2 nights - $40
NYC - 2 nights in a garage (discounted by hotel, no in-out privileges) - $80

Entertainment
WDW - For comparison sake, we'll go with 3-day Park Hoppers (about 36 hours of entertainment)- $1160
NYC - 2 Broadway shows, 2 museum entrances (about 14 hours of entertainment) - $750

Food
WDW - 2 tables services, 5 quick services (we do tend to share meals at times) with adult beverages at times - $500
NYC - 2 decent dinners, 2 breakfasts at hotel, 3 lunches on the go, with adult beverages at dinners - $450

Totals
WDW - $2290 - with lots more car travel time, but lots more total entertainment
NYC - $1990 - lots less car travel time, but lots less total entertainment

Hmmm....either Disney isn't quite as outrageously expensive as I often think or NYC is beyond outrageous.

In terms of quality of experience, I'd have to side with Disney. Even on the worst days of quality of show at WDW, it's far worse walking down Broadway than any area of a Disney park. While the shows on Broadway are amazing for 3 hours at a time, the rest of the 3 days/2 nights isn't quite so quality. Yes, the Disney bubble ain't what it used to be, but it's still vastly superior to NYC for sure!

In terms of our family time - well, Disney again will win the argument. We tend to enjoy family time in the car for discussions and sing-alongs and maybe a movie or something. The shorter NYC drive is certainly less tense, the traffic issues on I95 from Baltimore to NYC are at least comparable to I4 if not a little worse. Once there - at WDW it is pure family-time and we are more than comfortable enough to do just about anything. In NYC, there's certainly a bit of looking over the shoulder at most times and there is no way we are letting our daughter of on her own to do things she is interested in!!!

It's funny because I've always thought of visits to WDW as crazy expensive, but something we enjoyed as a family and would continue to enjoy. After this past weekend...maybe they aren't quite so expensive and beyond just enjoying WDW, despite some decline, it is a quality experience that is above just about anywhere else.

Yes

 

[21stamps]

The Polynesian costs $500/night almost entirely because of its location (monorail, 2 minutes from the most visited theme park on earth, convenient location, etc).

It's just like the junky house that's $2M because of it's insanely good location. It really doesn't matter how house or in this case, the hotel looks (although it's definitely not Motel 6). It's LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION, just like any real estate.

Exactly. I’ve said this so many times.

I lived in Key West FL after college.. I paid $1980 for a STUDIO apartment on Duval St. my only “amenities” were a staircase with random drunk homeless people passed out at the bottom.

Here’s homes for sale.. Note the 2nd in my photo..755 sq ft... anywhere else that home would be 1/10th that price, if that much... but, you’re paying for the privilege to live on a rock.


Most people understand that convenience and location come with a price.

 

[allgiggles]

Your plan may work if you have a family full of adults only but assuming you have any young children, getting there at rope drop means them being up at 6 AM to get to the parks and be fed on time. Unless your child is superman/woman by the time mid day rolls around they will crash and then you'll lose a few hours going back to the hotel for naps. Even going at rope drop, you may be able to have a 10 minute wait on the first ride by the time you walk there and queue up but by the time you get out of the first ride,the other headliner will have at least a 30 minute wait. Factor in walking and getting around and my original estimate of 60 minutes is pretty spot on. The timing restrictions of fastpass prevents you getting more than 3 fastpasses during the first three hours of the park so you will be waiting in standby for numerous attractions. During any busy time of the year all the tier A and B fastpasses will be gone by the time that three hour mark ends. If you could see every attraction during summer with less than a 30 minute wait, you'd be a millionaire because everyone would pay to have a shot at that.

* * * * *

As I mentioned in my comment above, if you are in a family situation where you have young children, there is little to no way that you can both make rope drop and keep going through the nightime entertainment without stopping for a midday break where you lose at least 2 hours with travel time and naps. If you're in a group of all adults this could conceivably work although i've never seen TT with less than a 40 minute posted wait even 10 minutes before Illuminations unless it's January or February or you do a single rider line.

1. We've done rope drop at every park on every trip to Disney that we've taken. That includes an 8:00 a.m. (non-emh) opening at MK. We've been to Disney several times with 1-2 pre-schoolers in tow. We've never had trouble doing rope drop with them. By being at the front of the pack at rope drop, we're usually in one of the first ride cycles of whatever ride we head to first. We always manage to do numerous rides standby prior to our FPs kicking in at 10:30. In MK, we usually manage to do 6 or more rides by 10:30 all with less than a 10 minute wait -- and no running involved. We also do some standby lines in between our 10:30, 11:30 & 12:30 FPs. We have the same routine at other parks but might only get on 3-4 rides before 10:30. At that point (after using the 12:30 FP), we usually schedule a 4th FP for around 6:00 and head back to the resort for a rest. We don't consider it "lost" time, but rather a refresher so we can head back to the park later and stay for nighttime entertainment. And we take a break on every rope drop day regardless of the ages of our kids. I realize that rope drop with toddlers/preschoolers doesn't work for every family, but there are plenty of families that it *does* work for. It is most definitely *not* impossible or even unlikely. We see plenty of families there with infants/toddlers/preschoolers.

2. Our last trip (June 2016) we were able to get TSMM as a 4th and 5th FP in one day...late in June when it's definitely busy. We also had Soarin' available on our EP day but had already ridden it that trip and didn't feel the need to do it again.

3. I never said TT had a short wait time posted at the end of the night. I said we've had very short waits. There's a difference. It's pretty common knowledge that Disney inflates wait times at the end of the night to discourage people from getting in line. The posted wait time when we've ridden TT at that time of the night has always been 30-45 minutes. Actual wait time has been less than 15. My favorite example of inflated wait times was during an evening EMH at MK. It was 1:15 a.m. and the posted wait time was 45 minutes. A CM was standing at the entrance literally yelling that the posted wait time was accurate and that if you got in line, it would be your final ride of the night because it would be after 2:00 a.m. when you were finished with the ride. I rolled my eyes and we walked past her....and walked straight to the loading area waiting behind 1 set of riders. We were back out front by 1:25.

 

[draybook]

Im not making excuses at all. I don't call the shots. Whether you think the lowering the quality is a good excuse or not is really not the issues.
Disney is a for profit enterprise with a executive board who evidently feel that what they are doing is the way to go. Now you feel quality has been "lowered". That's you, evidently not enough because the parks are parcked. Which yes makes me happy.
And no sorry its not a fact because many people don't think the quality has been not decreased.
I do like smilies though.

Plenty of long time visitors, even on this forum, feel the same way. If a guy who's been going for 30+ years and a guy who's only been going for 10 years seem to have the same view then there must be a common denominator.

Disney food in general would be a good example. Or how about modes of transportation that operate with doors open? But nah, the quality thing is just a Figment of my Imagination...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Plenty of long time visitors, even on this forum, feel the same way. If a guy who's been going for 30+ years and a guy who's only been going for 10 years seem to have the same view then there must be a common denominator.

Disney food in general would be a good example. Or how about modes of transportation that operate with doors open? But nah, the quality thing is just a Figment of my Imagination...

You have a very valid point that chorus has grown and become more aligned in the last few years.

This is a fan site and I tend to be hypercritical...but those complaints have grown and to not acknowledge it is complete denial.

 

[larryz]

Plenty of long time visitors, even on this forum, feel the same way. If a guy who's been going for 30+ years and a guy who's only been going for 10 years seem to have the same view then there must be a common denominator.

Disney food in general would be a good example. Or how about modes of transportation that operate with doors open? But nah, the quality thing is just a Figment of my Imagination...

Here's the thing about Disney food -- it's so hit-or-miss... one day, the burger can be the best thing you ever put in your mouth. The next, like chewing a sack of sawdust. One day, the steak melts in your mouth. The next, it's like trying to chew the shoes you wore to the MK the day before. Overall, I'd say the trend is down, but they still have flashes of brilliance from time to time, and it's impossible to predict when that lightning will strike.

 

[brifraz]

If you are paying with available funds (which I would recommend), Disney is of average cost weighed against equal options....considering you can control everything outside of the admission price.

That was the initial point of this whole ordeal!

I paid about $180 for my Apple Core hotel right by Times Square. Had free breakfast, use of gym, and same service at my DVC resorts. My Cambria Suites stay was even better. So I would disagree that service is same as Disney. Truthfully Disney misses the mark with high end level service. But anyway my thoughts from your post still remain, Disney is expensive and so is NYC. Your posts really just confirm it for me. I likely would never stay onsite at Disney if it weren't for DVC now.

I was comparing the same weekend at Apple Core and All-Stars - Easter Weekend. Our customer service at the hotel was not even close to what we get in DVC resorts...it was actually below what you get at All-Stars. Room wasn't ready on time, shower curtain bar was broken - yes, there was free breakfast but not much there and when I went down by the gym there were 3 people in it, so all the equipment was in use. I think Disney and NYC are pretty comparable for similar experience and that was my initial point.

Your plan may work if you have a family full of adults only but assuming you have any young children, getting there at rope drop means them being up at 6 AM to get to the parks and be fed on time. Unless your child is superman/woman by the time mid day rolls around they will crash and then you'll lose a few hours going back to the hotel for naps. Even going at rope drop, you may be able to have a 10 minute wait on the first ride by the time you walk there and queue up but by the time you get out of the first ride,the other headliner will have at least a 30 minute wait. Factor in walking and getting around and my original estimate of 60 minutes is pretty spot on. The timing restrictions of fastpass prevents you getting more than 3 fastpasses during the first three hours of the park so you will be waiting in standby for numerous attractions. During any busy time of the year all the tier A and B fastpasses will be gone by the time that three hour mark ends. If you could see every attraction during summer with less than a 30 minute wait, you'd be a millionaire because everyone would pay to have a shot at that.

As I mentioned in my comment above, if you are in a family situation where you have young children, there is little to no way that you can both make rope drop and keep going through the nightime entertainment without stopping for a midday break where you lose at least 2 hours with travel time and naps. If you're in a group of all adults this could conceivably work although i've never seen TT with less than a 40 minute posted wait even 10 minutes before Illuminations unless it's January or February or you do a single rider line.

I think my overall point is that during most of the year, the operating hours of the park are about 12 hours from open to close. Even waiting less than 30 minutes per attraction (I personally think AK is the toughest park to use wait time examples on because there are only really 4 or 5 good attractions there) you will lose a significant portion of those 12 hours to waiting in line. The advantage you have is that you have a teen child so if you wanted to go rope drop to park close you could do so without any slowdown whereas you may not be able to do that with young children. I would also wager that with your party's age group you don't do the really young rides (barnstomer, dumbo, PP flight) so ultimately you spend less time waiting than parents trying to do these rides as well as the normal ones. I think ultimately you are losing somewhere between 4 - 6 hours of those 12 hours depending on how aggressive you tour the parks even if you can do every attraction in under 30 minutes.

Yes, we are quite aggressive tourers. We have been doing it this way since our daughter was 2. Starting at a few weeks old, we were VERY regimented with our daughter's sleep (some book about brain development and sleep habits had us sold), so about 2-3 weeks before our trips we adjusted her to sleep different so we could do rope drop (back then EMH was usually 7am on our Easter/mid-Summer/Xmas visits), take an hour in the afternoon and then make it to park close. We still tour just about the same. We do ALL the rides - at MK we always do Pan (that's usually a rope drop ride) and Dumbo and Barnstormer about 50% of the time. We recently had a visit where we tried to do ALL the attractions at Magic Kingdom in a day (skipping parades and fireworks) and almost succeeded. Yes, 12 hours was a bit of a stretch in terms of per day 'entertainment' but we really do get much more than 6 hours. We are there when parks are open 14-16 hours and we generally get 10+ hours of quality entertainment each day.

Thanks for a fun thread, all. I'm likely tagging out and pricing out some more vacations...

 

[Goofyernmost]

Plenty of long time visitors, even on this forum, feel the same way. If a guy who's been going for 30+ years and a guy who's only been going for 10 years seem to have the same view then there must be a common denominator.

Disney food in general would be a good example. Or how about modes of transportation that operate with doors open? But nah, the quality thing is just a Figment of my Imagination...

I'm one of the guys that has been going there for 35 years and I say not only has the quality not declined it has technologically improved massively. The colors are brighter, the landscaping is spectacular, and considering the age of some of the attractions that NO ONE wants to have taken out, are still running day after day after day. Sorry, I don't see that as a decline. The example of the door... really? Millions and millions of miles that have been put on those machines over the last 47 years and to our knowledge that has only happened once. How is that bad quality? It is in fact spectacular quality.

Food, I basically only use the counter service for lunch and the few times I have eaten in one of the sit-down places I have left not only disappointed, but, depressed because of the money I spent for garbage. However, that has been the case, as far as I can remember since my first time there in February 1983. I have never been impressed with the food. I posted pictures of myself and my young daughters eating cellophane wrapped grinders brought in from throw it together food vendors like you find in so many gas stations all around and purchased at the Pinocchio Village Haus. At least now you get stuff made on property. That seems like a uptick of quality to me.

On the downside is the up-charge events that used to happen at no additional charge, but, even then those are of better quality then what used to happen, it's just that now we have to pay extra. I should say that others have to pay for them because I won't. Shorter hours, I can't comment on because I never stayed the entire time it was open anyway, so no loss to me. Some of the new attractions are not as good as others, but, that is a personal observation not really a quality issue. It comes under the heading of you can't win them all. In summary, the price has gone up to the point where I have to ask if it is worth it to spend that much for what is there, but, that doesn't mean that what is there isn't worth it to some. Perhaps the quality vs. cost has not stayed balanced based on the thought that for what they charge now all the walkways should be made of gold. The introduction of Fastpass did lower the quality of the experience, that I agree with.

Taken in 1983 just outside Pinocchio's Village Haus. Oh, yea they threw in a bag of chips.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

WDW 4-Day Base Ticket: $380 ($95/day) [+ tax]
Universal (Orlando) 2-Park 4-Day Ticket $235 ($58.75/day) [+ tax]
Disneyland 4-Day Base Ticket: $305 ($76.25/day) [no tax, includes 1 early entry]

It's only $15 more get a 5-day ticket to WDW, but I don't like the idea of having to commit to 5 days or more at WDW to justify the value of a ticket. There's also not enough IMO for a full-day at DHS or Epcot ATM and it's an additional $75 to make that 4 or 5-day a hopper. You can say all you want that WDW has 4 parks to choose from, but that "1 park per day" rule means you only see one, regardless.

Never mind the apples to oranges comparisons with NYC etc, for an American theme park resort, WDW is the most expensive option.