Is Avatar to political for a Disney park?

[ExtinctJenn]

The message "taking care of our planet" is a VERY POLITICAL message.
Search for news? about Global Warming if you do not believe me.

It's all in how you look at it. My DS6 is very focused on recycling and taking care of the Earth. Trust me... it's so not political... UNLESS YOU MAKE IT THAT WAY! (sorry you threw caps at me so I had to reciprocate LOL)

 

[lebeau]

The message "taking care of our planet" is a VERY POLITICAL message.
Search for news? about Global Warming if you do not believe me.

I think you may have missed something at DAK...

Pssst. They already have a pretty strong "taking care of our planet" message in that park!

 

[ExtinctJenn]

I think you may have missed something at DAK...

Pssst. They already have a pretty strong "taking care of our planet" message in that park!

Exactly my point.

 

[bethymouse]

The message "taking care of our planet" is a VERY POLITICAL message.
Search for news? about Global Warming if you do not believe me.

Well then all of our kids are already exposed to politics in general since most schools celebrate Earth Day in some way, and most schools have recycling program. I don't think "taking care of our planet" is a bad /political message at all IMHO.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Um, Pocahontas?

The only people I have talked to who saw Avatar as a political film,
have seemed to be people who see politics in everything. So, yeah.
Mickey Mouse is a giant corporate global icon of greed and capitalist
Disneyfication. "The Rat" as he is referred to by some people.

Get the RAT out of the parks, first.

On another note, I'm thinking of starting a new thread about Avatar
coming to the parks.

Pocahantas was great. So was dances with wolves. I loved both of those films. Never felt those two films were political...just a reselling of historical events.

 

[bethymouse]

But if they just go with an existing Disney franchies, they will only be attracting people who are already Disney fans and are probably already coming to the parks. The idea with Avatar is that it could tap into an audiance that isn't already coming to the parks. This is one of the reasons Harry Potter was so successful for Universal is that it pulled in people who had never been to Universal and maybe had never been to Orlando. Now, whether or not Avatar will succeed in doing that is up for debate.

OK- I'll throw a bone here. Why are we trying to compare what Avatarland might be to what HP @ Universal already is? I just don't think (IMHO) that you can compare Universal to Disney- two very different theme parks w/ two very different settings/experiences. To each his own!

 

[lebeau]

Well then all of our kids are already exposed to politics in general since most schools celebrate Earth Day in some way, and most schools have recycling program. I don't think "taking care of our planet" is a bad /political message at all IMHO.

I'm just waiting for the Creationists to find out about Dinoland!

 

[twebber55]

I was helping you prove your point

I think the hesitation really has nothing to do with the fact that it's political. I feel the hesitation is that DAK is all about EARTH and it's about creatures that lived, are living, or never were (mythical).

The dragon has been on the park logo since Day 1 and we never saw Beastly Kingdom come to fruition. That land would've been accepted because it's EARTHLY LORE and they are creatures that some believe really do exist, not just made up in a movie.

So, some see Avatar as the final nail in the Beastly Kingdom coffin...but in reality, when The Lost Continent opened with Islands of Adventure, the lid was shut.

agreed since lost continent opened beastly kingdom called it night

 

[bethymouse]

Pocahantas was great. So was dances with wolves. I loved both of those films. Never felt those two films were political...just a reselling of historical events.

reselling or retelling? LOL I'm not criticizing, just liking the idea of the word "selling" because that's what it's all about-selling the parks!

 

[Master Yoda]

I'm just waiting for the Creationists to find out about Dinoland!

Creationists don't have a problem with dinosaurs, it is them existing more that 65,000,000 years ago that they take issue with. Tell them that they lived 6000 years ago and people rode them like horses and they are all hunky dunky.

 

[Cybercat]

Disney World has always been somewhat political. The park is secular for one. That in itself was a pretty political move considering when the parks were constructed.

 

[ExtinctJenn]

Now we're crossing from political into religion as the thread topic... danger! Danger!

 

[MCCALL]

Is Avatar too political for a Disney park? Is that why there is some reservation about bringing the world of Pandora to Disney?

People should be excited about the world of pandora in AK. A beautiful fantasy world with enchanting, magical, wondrous...and dangerous creatures surrounded by a dreamscape world filled with floating mountains and jungles that light up the night sky just as a 1970's glowing velvet poster lit up kids bedrooms.
Think of the attractions, the rides, the possibilities disney's imagineers could explore.
It's a cant miss world that sounds like the original idea behind the beastly kingdom. A land people have been asking for since 1998.

Avatar made 2.7 billion world wide. Nothing else comes close. Yes it was in 3d, but so was avengers. Its a moviepeople went back again and again to see. It has 3 more movies on the way and legendary filmmaker James Cameron is behind the story. It's his vision.
So, on paper it sounds like we are in great hands.

So why are we skeptical on this land coming to Disney?

My feeling is at the end of the story, all we are left with is one man's (James Camerons)political opinion on America.
Didn't feel that in Star Wars, Harry potter, or Cars. (not saying it wasnt there...just didnt feel it) I felt it in avatar.

I don't know the characters in avatar. Which is strange. I can't remember the lead characters names. I would have to google it.

What I remember is the evil American Military and evil American Corporation...(didn't look like the U.N. or united federation of planets to me) unleashing holy hell on beautiful smurf creatures...( would you have felt different if it was an infestation of ugly flesh eating cockroaches they wiped out?)
At the end of the story...evil America goes home and the smurfs win.

So I had this subconsciously uneasy feeling leaving the movie. Something just didn't feel right. felt like we the audience were being indoctrinated with James Cameron's beliefs.
Maybe it was just me. This beautiful wonderfully created world boils down to a single political message.

Dances with Wolves works because it is a take on true events ,a history lesson. I love dances with wolves. Didn't love Avatar.

What am getting at is do you think subconsciously people don't like the idea of Avatar coming to Disney because there is the potential this story gets really political. This story could potentially get very anti-American. Does the evil American military come back to fight the smurfs again in the sequels?

Bringing an overly political message to the Disney parks could bite them in the . I think it is this unknown that scares some. There could be a backlash and it could go down as a horrible investment. Might not...have no idea how the over all arc of the story goes. Disney better know. It better read all the scripts. You don't want an anti American message coming to an American park.

I come to Disney parks for escapism, to be a child again. To share memories with my child and to not think about the current events in the world. It's a vacation...you go to relax and have fun.
I don't want this new land to have the potential to be a msnbc/fox news attraction.

I think that is the main fear...or at least on of them. I'm just trying to figure out what the fear is about Avatar coming to Disney. I could be wrong. I'm not against anyone expressing their beliefs and ideas but usually half are with you and half are against you when you discuss politics. Disney doesn't want 50 percent against them.
Beastly kingdom doesn't have this potential problem.
What are your thoughts?

Wal

Is Avatar too political for a Disney park? Is that why there is some reservation about bringing the world of Pandora to Disney?

People should be excited about the world of pandora in AK. A beautiful fantasy world with enchanting, magical, wondrous...and dangerous creatures surrounded by a dreamscape world filled with floating mountains and jungles that light up the night sky just as a 1970's glowing velvet poster lit up kids bedrooms.
Think of the attractions, the rides, the possibilities disney's imagineers could explore.
It's a cant miss world that sounds like the original idea behind the beastly kingdom. A land people have been asking for since 1998.

Avatar made 2.7 billion world wide. Nothing else comes close. Yes it was in 3d, but so was avengers. Its a moviepeople went back again and again to see. It has 3 more movies on the way and legendary filmmaker James Cameron is behind the story. It's his vision.
So, on paper it sounds like we are in great hands.

So why are we skeptical on this land coming to Disney?

My feeling is at the end of the story, all we are left with is one man's (James Camerons)political opinion on America.
Didn't feel that in Star Wars, Harry potter, or Cars. (not saying it wasnt there...just didnt feel it) I felt it in avatar.

I don't know the characters in avatar. Which is strange. I can't remember the lead characters names. I would have to google it.

What I remember is the evil American Military and evil American Corporation...(didn't look like the U.N. or united federation of planets to me) unleashing holy hell on beautiful smurf creatures...( would you have felt different if it was an infestation of ugly flesh eating cockroaches they wiped out?)
At the end of the story...evil America goes home and the smurfs win.

So I had this subconsciously uneasy feeling leaving the movie. Something just didn't feel right. felt like we the audience were being indoctrinated with James Cameron's beliefs.
Maybe it was just me. This beautiful wonderfully created world boils down to a single political message.

Dances with Wolves works because it is a take on true events ,a history lesson. I love dances with wolves. Didn't love Avatar.

What am getting at is do you think subconsciously people don't like the idea of Avatar coming to Disney because there is the potential this story gets really political. This story could potentially get very anti-American. Does the evil American military come back to fight the smurfs again in the sequels?

Bringing an overly political message to the Disney parks could bite them in the . I think it is this unknown that scares some. There could be a backlash and it could go down as a horrible investment. Might not...have no idea how the over all arc of the story goes. Disney better know. It better read all the scripts. You don't want an anti American message coming to an American park.

I come to Disney parks for escapism, to be a child again. To share memories with my child and to not think about the current events in the world. It's a vacation...you go to relax and have fun.
I don't want this new land to have the potential to be a msnbc/fox news attraction.

I think that is the main fear...or at least on of them. I'm just trying to figure out what the fear is about Avatar coming to Disney. I could be wrong. I'm not against anyone expressing their beliefs and ideas but usually half are with you and half are against you when you discuss politics. Disney doesn't want 50 percent against them.
Beastly kingdom doesn't have this potential problem.
What are your thoughts?

Walt Disney World and Animal Kingdom in particular have always had a strong conservation message. The overwhelming message in Avatar is one of conservation. I wholeheartedly embrace this message and I can see nothing that would be inappropriate in having an Avatar land in AK.

I am a veteran and I did not feel this movie depicted the American military in a negative way as the "soldiers" in the movie were mercenaries. I do feel that the movie showed "Corporate Earth" in the light it deserves. If you doubt this, check out the rain forest of South America that is being destroyed by corporate greed. I think the same message is being portrayed in Kali River Rapids. It's reality and if you take offense, good, that's kind of the point.

Having said all of that, I think Disney will make a new fantastic, magical place for us all and I for one can't wait to experience Avatarland!!

 

[Magenta Panther]

Is Avatar too political for a Disney park? Is that why there is some reservation about bringing the world of Pandora to Disney?

People should be excited about the world of pandora in AK. A beautiful fantasy world with enchanting, magical, wondrous...and dangerous creatures surrounded by a dreamscape world filled with floating mountains and jungles that light up the night sky just as a 1970's glowing velvet poster lit up kids bedrooms.
Think of the attractions, the rides, the possibilities disney's imagineers could explore.

No offense, but...*yawn*

Disney has in its own vault fantastic creatures and vistas that have yet to be translated into a ride or attraction. The most obvious example is Fantasia. I don't go to a Disney park to see rides based on other people's visions. I remain respectful but unimpressed by James Cameron. I go to a Disney park to see DISNEY product. I would take an original, Disney-generated attraction, based either on a prior Disney feature (such as the aforementioned Fantasia) or something brand-new (Beastly Kingdomme) than anything Cameron's cranked out any day.

You make a good point about Avatar's politics, such as they are. Its story does involve the same old anti-militaristic lecture Hollywood loves to belabor. The film does have a certain attitude. I don't think that's any kind of factor for cancelling the project, however. There are better arguments for doing that. Such as: Avatar is a flash-in-the-pan, with a poor story, dull characters, and not much chance of longevity, based as it is on eye candy. Iger's idea to buy the rights to it for WDW was a dumb, desperate attempt to trump Potter, and as such, it's pretty much failed, in my view. It's not generating the excitement the Potter attraction did prior to its opening. The movie is just a visual feast at best, and to me, that's not a good enough reason to invest in it as a Disney park attraction. After all, Captain EO was once considered cutting edge, and its star, Michael Jackson, seemed invincible. My, how times have changed...

 

[CinematicFusion]

I wrote a little about this in a blog post, and you touched on it here. You bring up an important point about the antagonist(s) in the movie is US, the human race. The movie ends with us being escorted off of Pandora. So, how/why would we now be returning to there if we are the enemy. I'm sure it will be addressed in future installments for the sequels, and perhaps there will be a good reason for humans to return, but for now, (at least in the story line) it's a pretty bleak picture.

Interestingly, the same kind of theme was expressed in Wall-E, but it ended much better, with humans making a new start.

We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us - Walt Kelly

Interesting point. Wall-e is a favorite movie of mine...and I never felt they were trying to throw a message into my face but the message was in front of my face. Maybe it was because we as humans did redeem ourselves at then end of the film.
In Avatar...we are the bad guys.
Excellent point!

 

[lebeau]

Creationists don't have a problem with dinosaurs, it is them existing more that 65,000,000 years ago that they take issue with. Tell them that they lived 6000 years ago and people rode them like horses and they are all hunky dunky.

Oh I know. I live a little too close to the Creation Museum for my tastes.

Kidding aside, the people who would take offense at the politics of an Avatar attraction are likely to find something already in the parks equally objectionable.

 

[ExtinctJenn]

I am a veteran and I did not feel this movie depicted the American military in a negative way as the "soldiers" in the movie were mercenaries. I do feel that the movie showed "Corporate Earth" in the light it deserves. If you doubt this, check out the rain forest of South America that is being destroyed by corporate greed. I think the same message is being portrayed in Kali River Rapids. It's reality and if you take offense, good, that's kind of the point.

Thank you for your service and well said!!!

Interesting point. Wall-e is a favorite movie of mine...and I never felt they were trying to throw a message into my face but the message was in front of my face. Maybe it was because we as humans did redeem ourselves at then end of the film.
In Avatar...we are the bad guys.
Excellent point!

Ironically I remember threads debating Wall-E as being a "good movie" or not because of the political message etc. blah blah. Pretty similar threads to this except not in relation to a new land being built obviously. The topic of conservation, whether you consider it a political statement or not, has always been something Disney was involved in. Walt was quoted many times on the topic and his vision of EPCOT was a big piece of that.

 

[danlb_2000]

OK- I'll throw a bone here. Why are we trying to compare what Avatarland might be to what HP @ Universal already is? I just don't think (IMHO) that you can compare Universal to Disney- two very different theme parks w/ two very different settings/experiences. To each his own!

The whole Universal vs Disney thing is another conversation that has been covered in other threads. My point is, if you can find a way to bring a new group of people to your park, whether it be Disney, Universal, or any other park, it can be a major win. Potter is a good example of putting in a franchise that drew a new audiance. I think that Disney believes they can do the same thing with Avatar, tap into a new audiance that isn't already coming to the parks.

 

[Magenta Panther]

That's the million dollar question. Is Disney willing to learn from their mistakes and let Cameron have enough creative control to do what he wants with it? I just don't think so.

Just wondering, what makes Cameron such an expert in theme park rides?

 

[Cybercat]

Iger's idea to buy the rights to it for WDW was a dumb, desperate attempt to trump Potter, and as such, it's pretty much failed, in my view. It's not generating the excitement the Potter attraction did prior to its opening.

Could you possibly be more arrogant? The thing isn't even built yet. How can it be a failure? If you think a handful of hardcore forum posters complaining makes a as of yet not built theme park expansion a failure, you are beyond delusional.

As for people not caring, I just told my friend about Avatarland. Her reaction was to become super excited about the idea and saying "I want to go there now." She's not a hardocore forum nut, so this is an example of the reaction of someone that isn't exactly like you.