Is Avatar to political for a Disney park?

Redsky89

Well-Known Member
I totally disagree. I don't see droves of people coming to Disney because they have an Avatar land. I know it's the biggest grossing movie ever (thanks to Imax and 3D), but it was a flash in the pan. It's not something that people are going to want to continue to watch over and over again and experience over and over again. The only person who seems excited about the sequels is Cameron. There isn't this huge buzz about the future movies, not like there was with Harry Potter and Twilight, and now with The Hunger Games. Seriously, who cares what happens to Sam Worthington's character?

Just my opinion.
I agree completely with this. I saw the movie twice in theaters and that was about it from then on. If its on TV I'll watch it for a bit but its nothing compared to films like Star Wars and The Godfather which I could watch over and over again. Just cause its Avatar doesn't mean its gonna bring mobs of people CONSISTENTLY over time. I had a "who cares what happens next" attitude also at the end of the movie.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
the violence is not what sold the film...cameron himself said that what they found is people cared more about the actual planet not the big action scenes

From a storyteller's viewpoint, yes, everybody cared about the planet and the blue people . . . but because they were under threat by the military wackos. There are different ways you can have heroes, you have somebody fighting an evil presence (like the military), or people who overcome difficult situations that are nobody's fault. You actually have both in Avatar, the paralyzed soldier overcoming his circumstances, and the blue people overcoming the "evil" folks, as well as some subplots. If you had a movie about a planet of blue people where they don't have to overcome the evil military folks, but perhaps deal with a planet wide, uh, fungus that is trying to kill the home tree or whatever, it would be less interesting to some.

Cameron took the short cut that big blockbusters like Star Wars, Harry Potter, and many other make by personifying evil in people, corporations, . . . emperors who throw lighting bolts. The movies that are harder to make involve less obvious sources of conflict/tension, and they usually outperform in terms of academy awards and such. In Titanic, the "evil" was a combination of mother nature and I guess some human incompetence, as well as some tension between the classes, it was less obvious as Mr. Future G.I. Joe pointing a weapon in the face of a race of blue people living in perfect harmony with their planet.

Obviously, if you get my point, people cared more about the planet and blue people, that was how the story was constructed, in which the military plays a crucial role. Sort of how Casablanca uses World War 2 germans for tension, and are integral to the story, but the viewer doesn't identify with them.

Avatar is much more violent than Casablanca, and they are selling Avatar action figures, most of which are armed, armed blue people, armed military psychos and their killer robots and stuff. For a lot of men the action/violence made the film appealing.

Avatarland without the military whackos would be less recognizable than the films, as presumably the military characters won't setup shop. It'll be the same as an Ewok village, an interesting environment most folks would like to walk around a bit after seeing Return of Jedi years ago, but not a lot of interest outside of interesting plants.
 

UberPlannerMom

Well-Known Member
Just a few points-
1. I don't find conservation to be political at all. I don't know anyone who argues the fact that there is a finite amount of aluminum in the world and therefore recycling our cans is a good idea. I don't know anyone who wants a dump in their backyard either, much less to see the whole world as a dump. Very rarely in my life have I met anyone who found it fun to litter. A lack of recycling seems to be caused by laziness or a lack of availability. Littering also seems to be caused by laziness. Where it all becomes an issue is where people like to lump things together. If you don't think that we have to rid the world of carbon dioxide then you must also want to pour toxic sludge into the Mississippi. If you don't have a problem with drilling for oil domesticly then surely you want to line up all the cute little polar bears and shoot them. There are environmental issues that are up for debate, conservation of trees and cleaning up after oneself just aren't on that list. The things I have found AK to focus on aren't usually offensive to anyone who isn't looking to be offended. I hope that made sense! Haha!
2. If the reason Avatarland is going to be amazing is because Disney makes great rides and Pandora is beautiful then couldn't Disney have saved a ton of money by theming a land around the rainforest? Talk about a beautiful area with incredible creatures and a whole slew of stories to build a ride around! Why pay for Avatar licensing unless it is that Iger didn't have faith in the imagineers ability to accomplish something to amaze people without a name attached? Doesn't everyone say how cheap Disney has become about spending money? Surely Avatar didn't come cheap!
 

DisDadEddie

Active Member
I think Avatar sends positive messages to everyone and fits into Disney perfect! Here is something I found online that states that also.

Here are other lessons learned from watching the movie Avatar while evaluating the plot from a psychospiritual perspective:
  • The righteous will prevail when all work together for the greater good.
  • Greed is not for the greater good.
  • Aggression takes different forms, the outwardly mighty do not always prevail.
  • Trust and love are inseparable.
  • Honesty and love are inseparable.
  • Staying true to oneself can force a change of allegiance.


Read more at Suite101: Spiritual Messages From James Cameron's Avatar: Psychological Review, Psychospiritual Analysis of the Movie | Suite101.com http://suite101.com/article/spiritual-message-james-camerons--movie-avatar-a199127#ixzz1z4Amck3t
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
  • The righteous will prevail when all work together for the greater good.
  • Greed is not for the greater good.
  • Aggression takes different forms, the outwardly mighty do not always prevail.
  • Trust and love are inseparable.
  • Honesty and love are inseparable.
  • Staying true to oneself can force a change of allegiance.

You could pretty much apply all of these traits to Star Wars, as well as Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter.
 

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
I also have to add....why is it that the Cameron fan-boi's are so desperate to argue whether or not avatar belongs in the parks....

One thread of this nature was already killed this week....

Isn't one thread of this subject enough?
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
I also have to add....why is it that the Cameron fan-boi's are so desperate to argue whether or not avatar belongs in the parks....

One thread of this nature was already killed this week....

Isn't one thread of this subject enough?
Not arguing just debating why avatar belongs in this park
i could care less about James cameron

1. message of conservation
2. Beautifully themed and immersive environment
3. big ticket draw (no matter how you spin it)
 

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
Not arguing just debating why avatar belongs in this park
i could care less about James cameron

1. message of conservation
2. Beautifully themed and immersive environment
3. big ticket draw (no matter how you spin it)


But it's already being debated in the other thread....ad nauseum!

....why is this thread necessary?
 

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
After listening to everyone. I don't think the main reason people are skeptical about Avatar revolves around the politics of the film...or the implied politics.
People may not have agreed with some of the subtle messages but it isn't a major concern or a deterrent for building the park.

What most fear is the longevity of the Avatar franchise. Does Avatar have the legs of a major franchise like Star Wars, James Bond, Harry Potter.

1. Was the box office numbers a fluke built up by the hype of the new 3d medium. Was Avatar's numbers (much like Titanic) increased becasuse of a Christmas release date where there is little competition. Wouldm Avatarnhave the same success during the summer of this year?

2. Most can't remember a character Name in the film. Who are the main characters in the sequels. Someone made a point on the board, that the people we could relate to we're the mercenaries. They left defeated. They are the bad guys. No redemption. As opposed to Wall-e...the human race has redemption at the end. We go back to rebuild the earth. Audience feels satisfied.

3. The Matrix effect... The first Matrix film was wonderful and the hype for the sequels was off the chart. Two sequels later and by most accounts it was a huge disappointment. The two sequels took the soul out of the first film.
So...shouldn't Disney wait to see how the next film plays to the public. Is it Matrix...or is it the next Empire Strikes Back.

4. Most agree that if Disney put their might behind the Avatar project, it could be a special attraction. That no matter what you thought of the average story....the world of Pandora would fit perfectly with the original beastly kingdom project.
4a. ... Problem is there is reports of cut backs, have been reports of the project being cancelled. This strikes fear into many. If Disney isn't backing the project 100 percent and making the most out of this world. Why then would it make since to create a half assed version of a movie that might not be a popular franchise in 5 years. Shouldn't the resources be put to something with more staying power.

I think those are the main reasons and I was off on the politics point.
 

DisDadEddie

Active Member
I think the main reason people are so against Avatar is because it's not Disney! If Avatar is what Disney thinks is good for the parks I'm going to take what they give us, they know better than I do.I'm not an Avatar fan, but I am a fan of great attractions at WDW. If Disney creates a one of a kind amazing attraction people will love it. Who cares about politics, all I care about is going to WDW and enjoying the experience with my family.
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
I think the main reason people are so against Avatar is because it's not Disney! If Avatar is what Disney thinks is good for the parks I'm going to take what they give us, they know better than I do.I'm not an Avatar fan, but I am a fan of great attractions at WDW. If Disney creates a one of a kind amazing attraction people will love it. Who cares about politics, all I care about is going to WDW and enjoying the experience with my family.

I'm not against Avatar at WDW simply because its not Disney. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Muppets have all worked really well obviously. What I'm concerned is that its a non-disney product that may not be worth investing it considering avatar's luke-warm public opinion.

BTW, am I the only one who never found Pandora to be that beautiful? I mean it was totally CGI for crying out loud. That totally took me out of the moment. What ever happened to models and bigatures that the LOTR movies used? If they had done that I might've warmed up to it more. But its really just a CGI forest that glows in the dark at night and has animals that are like the ones on earth except with extra limbs (six-legged ant eater horses anyone?).
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I'm not against Avatar at WDW simply because its not Disney. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Muppets have all worked really well obviously. What I'm concerned is that its a non-disney product that may not be worth investing it considering avatar's luke-warm public opinion.

BTW, am I the only one who never found Pandora to be that beautiful? I mean it was totally CGI for crying out loud. That totally took me out of the moment. What ever happened to models and bigatures that the LOTR movies used? If they had done that I might've warmed up to it more. But its really just a CGI forest that glows in the dark at night and has animals that are like the ones on earth except with extra limbs (six-legged ant eater horses anyone?).

I am not sure why you are singling out CGI here, it's just a tool. You seem to like LOTR and there was plenty of CGI in there also (along with the models and other techniques). To me the technology used to create the movie is irrelevant as long as they turn out a good final product. I think Avatar looked fantastic, it felt totally real to me.
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
I think the main reason people are so against Avatar is because it's not Disney!

That seems to keep getting said but I don't believe that to be the case; how many people still call for a full-fledged Star Wars land at DHS?


BTW, am I the only one who never found Pandora to be that beautiful? I mean it was totally CGI for crying out loud.

Honestly, it always reminded me of the Wookie planet from Star Wars. I don't mean that as a slight on Avatar but that was my first impression and whenever I've seen an image of Pandora since then, I automatically think "Wookies".
 

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
I see people saying that people don't want it or can't understand it because it's not going to draw people to WDW.

How many people are going to be drawn down there because of a restaurant, an added Dumbo spinner, a rethemed kiddie coaster, another Dark ride (D-ticket at best), a slightly larger family coaster,a splash zone, and the removal of a ride for a meet and greet?

What will attract people that normally wouldn't go to WDW more?

I'm pro-Avatar in the possibility of what it could be if the bean-counters don't stand in the way. I can see how beautiful this area can be and how a nighttime experience of the area can be a completely different one than during the day. Certain attractions appeal to me (Big Thunder, Peoplemover, Astro Orbiter, Jungle Cruise...) due to the experiences being unique once the sun goes down. This could be an entire land that gives that experience. (Tomorrowland sorta does this now...with all of the lighting...but it's very stale and cold feeling).

Do I think Avatar is an amazing film? No.
Do I think that it will become a franchise with staying power? No...but at the same time, people will say it's a failure if it doesn't do as well as the first film...so it really can't win anyways.
Do I think the environment created was amazing? Yes.
Do I think that Disney can make that become a reality? Yes.
Do I want them to? Yes.
Do I feel that it fits into DAK? Yes and No. On the whole (message and design), yes...on the surface (theme), no.
Do I feel that it would work better in another area of WDW? Yes and No. (Message...no), Theme DHS.
 

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