Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[CoasterFan27]

From the same company that obliterated Marvel, Pixar, and Star Wars within the span of a decade!

Over spent on Fox to the tune of $70+B

And blew up the equivalent of a half dozen or more worth of cruise ships on a streaming service that will never come close to making it back.


Yup they sure do know what they’re doing!

Pixar just had a record breaking release that was well received. Who can say how the studio would do if still independent, show me an example of any studio that's hit consistent quality for 30 years.

The Marvel releases have been broadly successful with inevitable waning interest (and some missteps) in the past few years but in any case are far more successful than previous and contemporary attempts (DC, Sony).

Right on Star Wars but they at least have started to correct in the past couple years so they aren't just blindly running into a wall.

You should see how much Apple have wasted on streaming services. I'm sure part of it acts as a marketing cost since they profit so much on merch and getting people to the parks.

They've made some big missteps in the past decade (and in many decades before), but this is absurd exaggeration of the problems. The real problems are a slow slide away from quality.

 

[LSLS]

Take it up with Iger. He basically said as much. When attendance goes down, people spend more money in the park. That's a fact.

Nevermind the fact that they have raised prices twice since this thread was started. So even after the fans noticed attendance declining, they continued to increase prices.

They are not dumb. They are the best in the business. They know what they are doing.

Yes by nature a person spends more if they pay when the price goes up. The problem at WDW is they have crossed that line where the decrease in attendance is made up for by the increase in prices. For years, it was "Well attendance has not changed (or slightly decreased), but revenues were up X% due to price increases." Last year, that line crossed where revenues were no longer up at WDW. You are now seeing that by following right along, Universal very likely crossed that line as well.

And the idea that you take what Iger says as gospel as opposed to spin is pretty hilarious honestly. If attendance decreases, do you honestly expect him to say "This is very bad for us"? Of course he will spin it as something they want and plan for. But again, don't kid yourself for a minute thinking it has anything to do with being "For the guests". The elimination of all sorts of benefits and extras tells you otherwise.

And finally, no, I don't think the executives are dumb. But plenty of businesses had people in charge who weren't dumb, but they tanked their businesses because they read what they were seeing in their data and what they thought of their consumers incorrectly. Let me stress here, I'm not saying Disney is going out of business, just illustrating a point that smart people can make wrong interpretations of their data. My entire career is working with data, I've seen it happen more than once. My guess, Disney World is going to announce a ton of stuff this D3. I think their interpretation is that people will pay the prices and return with new exciting IP in the park. They have for years run with the idea that all they need is new stuff replacing old stuff to justify raising the prices, and people will keep coming back at the new prices without needing to add more overhead to staff additional rides/areas. The results are lines don't change in length. The question would be are they interpreting what their data is showing correctly? I'm far from convinced on that.

 

[Lilofan]

Disney can never do wrong according to some on here. Everything is planned out and absolutely perfect. Always. Bob has the magic and pixie dust is flying everywhere. We are so lucky to live in a time when Disney manages everything so well and every decision is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

Bob and team are promoting what they have. Lower attendance but higher profits in parks and resorts looking like they are willing buyers to the dismay of a few.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Bob and team are promoting what they have. Lower attendance but higher profits in parks and resorts looking like they are willing buyers to the dismay of a few.

Bob and team aren’t doing jack except cutting things, decreasing quality, less maintenance, and raising prices. That’s the problem. Looking forward to all the new things opening the next 3-5 years?

 

[Lilofan]

Bob and team aren’t doing jack except cutting things, decreasing quality, less maintenance, and raising prices. That’s the problem. Looking forward to all the new things opening the next 3-5 years?

And to a number of willing buyers hence the increase in quarterly profits with lower attendance.

 

[GhostHost1000]

And to a number of willing buyers hence the increase in quarterly profits with lower attendance.

Stay tuned for the latest update on that in the next earnings call

 

[LSLS]

Bob and team are promoting what they have. Lower attendance but higher profits in parks and resorts looking like they are willing buyers to the dismay of a few.

That's not true domestically, especially at WDW.

 

[Lilofan]

That's not true domestically, especially at WDW.

Iger boastfully takes pride in the international parks doing well also and Genie is helping get profit numbers.

 

[bwr827]

Disney can never do wrong according to some on here. Everything is planned out and absolutely perfect. Always. Bob has the magic and pixie dust is flying everywhere. We are so lucky to live in a time when Disney manages everything so well and every decision is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

I’ve yet to spot any frequent poster who matches this description.

It undermines your argument if you overly exaggerate your “opponent”.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So if travel to Florida is up, and travel to not just Disney, but also universal is down, and we know it’s 100° over much of the country: why are we surprised that people are coming to Florida to go to the beaches instead of stand in open sun on hot asphalt fully clothed? I don’t think they’re going to Legoland instead of the other two.

Universal put out a pretty good deal for kind of a partial annual pass into December. That might actually get me to go for the first time in almost 20 years. I’ve always wanted to see the Harry Potter stuff.

They’ve outpriced themselves

There is zero doubt

The questions are:
1. Do they get aggressive to reset prices to create buzz and make it more attractive?
2. Do they institute an aggressive building program to reinvent the compound?


So far the answer is a resounding “no”…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's not true domestically, especially at WDW.

I marvel at how people can say the same bad, disproven ideas from 10 years ago?

 

[celluloid]

The few(and really one poster) who claims that this is a plan to get less people because Iger once said less crowded parks have people spending more. (sometimes on some things) is evident to not the case when Genie Plus is not often sold out or in high numbers for brand new E ticket budget attractions(and only new attractions at that) dining venues with many empty tables and on property owned hotels with far more vacancy than one expects.
It is not just attendance that is dropping, but the per family unit spend is dropping, and the adovate spending is lower.

All not good things.

 

[monothingie]

Pixar just had a record breaking release that was well received. Who can say how the studio would do if still independent, show me an example of any studio that's hit consistent quality for 30 years.

One good one doesn't make up for their last half dozen or so failures.

The Marvel releases have been broadly successful with inevitable waning interest (and some missteps) in the past few years but in any case are far more successful than previous and contemporary attempts (DC, Sony).

It's not fatigue it's crap product. Looking past Deadpool, which wasn't part of the MCU, there is nothing even remotely good or interesting coming down the pipe. Blade? Captain America? Iron Heart? Agatha? All hot garbage because they lost track of what the customers want.

Right on Star Wars but they at least have started to correct in the past couple years so they aren't just blindly running into a wall.

The Acolyte, Obi-Wan, Boba Fett, and Ashoka are not course corrects. Mando Season 3 was the lowest of the three.

You should see how much Apple have wasted on streaming services. I'm sure part of it acts as a marketing cost since they profit so much on merch and getting people to the parks.

Apple's DTC service is a toy. It is inconsequential if it makes or looses money. Same with Amazon Prime and to and an extent Peacock.

Because Disney is an Entertainment company first, just like WB-Discovery or Paramount , D+ has become a critical cornerstone of the company.

They've made some big missteps in the past decade (and in many decades before), but this is absurd exaggeration of the problems. The real problems are a slow slide away from quality.

There is no reason in the world other than pure incompetence and/or arrogance that Parks and Experiences should be on a downward trajectory. NONE. The downward slide in quality did not happen by itself. There has been about two full decades of steadily compounding failure by Disney leadership which has brought us to things like paying $30 for G+ or MPLL in empty parks or $700+ Rack Rate Hotel Rooms in empty Resorts.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That was an excuse in the moment

Anyone repeating it looks the fool

Public companies never want less business

That’s patently too stupid to say outloud

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Pixar just had a record breaking release that was well received. Who can say how the studio would do if still independent, show me an example of any studio that's hit consistent quality for 30 years.

The Marvel releases have been broadly successful with inevitable waning interest (and some missteps) in the past few years but in any case are far more successful than previous and contemporary attempts (DC, Sony).

Right on Star Wars but they at least have started to correct in the past couple years so they aren't just blindly running into a wall.

You should see how much Apple have wasted on streaming services. I'm sure part of it acts as a marketing cost since they profit so much on merch and getting people to the parks.

They've made some big missteps in the past decade (and in many decades before), but this is absurd exaggeration of the problems. The real problems are a slow slide away from quality.

…I don’t know whether to cry or wind my watch after reading this one

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

It seems like the markets have noticed that this portends a dreadful quarter for Disney:

View attachment 802976

Incidentally, they have now dropped below the dreaded Chapek Line* once again.

*The Chapek Line was the stock’s closing price ($91.80) in November ‘22 when the BOD decided they had enough and fired him.

And the DOW since Nov 22

 

[celluloid]

That was a bull$h!t excuse in the moment

Anyone repeating it looks the fool

Public companies never want less business

That’s patently to stupid to say outloud

Imagine saying that when the business you are speaking of and the leadership of calls the thi gs you build "attractions"

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Imagine saying that when the business you are speaking of and the leadership of is called build things "attractions"

Imagine setting up that business unchecked as your own cult of personality for 20 years?

To the point where we are now…the
Market is waiting for new leadership. Just waiting. The writing is written on the wall in blood

 

[GhostHost1000]

I’ve yet to spot any frequent poster who matches this description.

It undermines your argument if you overly exaggerate your “opponent”.

You must be new here

 

[el_super]

Yes by nature a person spends more if they pay when the price goes up. The problem at WDW is they have crossed that line where the decrease in attendance is made up for by the increase in prices.

Revenue isn't at some point where it's trying to maintain stability: it's literally the highest it has ever been for the parks division. They keep raising prices and it keeps paying off for them. There is a point here in this argument where the bias really shows through: to believe that they are able to raise prices to counter attendance forces the realization that people are still readily willing and able to pay those increased prices for the experience. Demand is still pretty high for the product then.

And the idea that you take what Iger says as gospel as opposed to spin is pretty hilarious honestly.

At this point, I would take Iger's spun data over the hopes and feelings of "fans" on the internet.

My guess, Disney World is going to announce a ton of stuff this D3.

Yes. Absolutely. Because they have raised prices, increased revenue and are pivoting the parks business back to growth.

The level of investment you will see at d23 though is only possible due to those increased prices and the continued demonstration of high demand for the product.

You can't have new rides without new revenue.