Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[LSLS]

Most of those issues are related to the high demand. Needing dated reservations and planning for wait time management became integral parts of the experience because the place was too crowded all the time.

If you curb demand on the pricing side, you can start to pull back the need for park reservations and Genie+. Even Streetmosphere can be pulled back a bit, since a lot of it is used as extra capacity.

If you can go on every ride over and over with a minimal wait... can you NOT have a better time?

Reservations are absolutely not here because of demand. If they were the parks would constantly be at reservation capacity.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

My beef for several years is not that Disney needs another Park, they need to complete the Parks they have. AK has 7 rides (if you count Triceratops and 4 shows (counting that bird show and Tree of life). Hollywood studios is not much better with 9 rides and 5 shows (if you count the Dis Jr - not counting Fantasmic which is a night time attraction). Both should have a minimum of 4 more rides--and they do not all have to be E ticket rides. How many people remember that both Toy Story Land and Star Wars Land were supposed to have 4 new rides each until the 2 Bob's cut the budget?

Yeah, if you increase capacity across the 4 existing parks by 25% you have the same impact as adding a 5th gate (I know not exactly the same but directionally comparable)

 

[el_super]

Reservations are absolutely not here because of demand. If they were the parks would constantly be at reservation capacity.

What? That makes no sense.

The reservations are absolutely to control demand.

 

[LSLS]

What? That makes no sense.

The reservations are absolutely to control demand.

If the reservation capacity is at 25,000, and there are only 15,000 coming to the parks, it is not controlling any demand. It only controls the demand if 28,000 wanted to come to the park that day. What it does is let them know how many people to expect so they don't open any extra food carts or drink stands which may not see lines. The systems are designed to ensure the bare minimum in spending they need to do for the parks, not to keep people from coming through the door.

 

[twilight mitsuk]

and how many ride vehicles to activate that day

 

[el_super]

If the reservation capacity is at 25,000, and there are only 15,000 coming to the parks, it is not controlling any demand. It only controls the demand if 28,000 wanted to come to the park that day.

Oh I see what you're trying to say... I think the amount of days that have been completely booked out has definitely decreased over time, but it certainly has happened. July 4th was the most recent example.

What it does is let them know how many people to expect so they don't open any extra food carts or drink stands which may not see lines. The systems are designed to ensure the bare minimum in spending they need to do for the parks, not to keep people from coming through the door.

Not at all. They already had systems in place for handling this.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Whaaah, the parks are too crowded! Whaaah, the parks are too deserted! Make up your mf mind.

Please quote the posts where people are complaining that the parks aren't crowded. We'll wait.

 

[LSLS]

Oh I see what you're trying to say... I think the amount of days that have been completely booked out has definitely decreased over time, but it certainly has happened. July 4th was the most recent example.




Not at all. They already had systems in place for handling this.

July 4th was not capacity. MAYBE MK got there, but I only know they had casr members blacked out that one day there (and no issues other days). But reservations were easy at the other parks. In fact a couple parks were below the lowest levels for staffing they have to forecast at.

 

[SamusAranX]

Please quote the posts where people are complaining that the parks aren't crowded. We'll wait.

Exactly.

I am happy as an AP; i can do alot more of my favorites and not spend all day.

but i also recognize its not a good sign for the near term future of the parks.

 

[el_super]

July 4th was not capacity. MAYBE MK got there, but I only know they had casr members blacked out that one day there (and no issues other days). But reservations were easy at the other parks. In fact a couple parks were below the lowest levels for staffing they have to forecast at.

But that's part of the math - cap capacity at MK and spread the crowds out to the other parks.

Or more specifically, cap demand for a specific lower end tier of admission. Not really all that different from having block out dates for Annual Passes and CM Main Gate passes. The problem back then tho, was it was an all-or-nothing block on admissions. Now with reservations they can say specifically "I'm ok letting in 10k Annual Passes and 3k Main Gate Admissions" rather than the all-or-nothing approach from before.

 

[SamusAranX]

But that's part of the math - cap capacity at MK and spread the crowds out to the other parks.

Or more specifically, cap demand for a specific lower end tier of admission. Not really all that different from having block out dates for Annual Passes and CM Main Gate passes. The problem back then tho, was it was an all-or-nothing block on admissions. Now with reservations they can say specifically "I'm ok letting in 10k Annual Passes and 3k Main Gate Admissions" rather than the all-or-nothing approach from before.

Regardless of what it is for, it's a band-aid for the entrenched problems when WDW needs the whole dang roll of gauze

 

[el_super]

Regardless of what it is for, it's a band-aid for the entrenched problems when WDW needs the whole dang roll of gauze

What problems? If you asked me what the biggest problem was in 2019 I would have said the place was too crowded. That seems to be fixed now.

 

[SamusAranX]

What problems? If you asked me what the biggest problem was in 2019 I would have said the place was too crowded. That seems to be fixed now.

Capacity, capacity, and capacity. Refusal to invest in the actual levels it needs. That's part of the reason why the parks were "too" crowded in 2019 as well.

 

[mkt]

*sigh* I loved Toronto.

It is one of my favourite cities to visit on the planet. I tend to go there once a quarter, piggybacked to a Detroit work trip. Next work trip though might be Austin, which... I have no complaints about.

 

[el_super]

Capacity, capacity, and capacity. Refusal to invest in the actual levels it needs. That's part of the reason why the parks were "too" crowded in 2019 as well.

There's no point in adding capacity to chase lower dollars. You build a park to accommodate Annual Passholders and you get a park full of flat spinners and cheap additions.

 

[networkpro]

There's no point in adding capacity to chase lower dollars. You build a park to accommodate Annual Passholders and you get a park full of flat spinners and cheap additions.

Like DCA ?

 

[SamusAranX]

There's no point in adding capacity to chase lower dollars. You build a park to accommodate Annual Passholders and you get a park full of flat spinners and cheap additions.

That's not my position at all [cheap additions]; and even they have their place(s) as people eaters. The company has been adding D and E tickets piecemeal and as replacements sometimes, not outright new capacity; and trying to use Fastpass+ and Genie+ to shuffle deck chairs and monetize a problem they created. It worked for a time, but without the quality, regular additions ALL parks needed at WDW, it was always going to seem and be crowded. Can only shift them so much. We may be starting to see the chickens coming home to roost. At some point it was going to catch up to them

 

[LSLS]

But that's part of the math - cap capacity at MK and spread the crowds out to the other parks.

Or more specifically, cap demand for a specific lower end tier of admission. Not really all that different from having block out dates for Annual Passes and CM Main Gate passes. The problem back then tho, was it was an all-or-nothing block on admissions. Now with reservations they can say specifically "I'm ok letting in 10k Annual Passes and 3k Main Gate Admissions" rather than the all-or-nothing approach from before.

If they did hit capacity (and I have yet to see any evidence they did) they need to work on their math, cause I can't imagine the goal is to have the other parks thousands of people under the lowest levels they staff for. But, that doesn't even really matter. Hitting capacity one day at one park does not make your point that the reservations keep the crowds down the other days (unless the point is people are fed up because of them).

 

[LSLS]

What problems? If you asked me what the biggest problem was in 2019 I would have said the place was too crowded. That seems to be fixed now.

Except they aren't less crowded. Look at the wait times posted, they aren't that different (unless like I said above, it's drastically down like the 4th was). What they are doing is staffing lower so your waits stay similar. None of these things are to get a better guest experience, it's to milk the most money they can.

 

[el_super]

Like DCA ?

Exactly like DCA. Spending the billion+ to fix it in 2012, didn't significantly move the needle on attendance/revenue and now they're stuck again.

It worked for a time, but without the quality, regular additions ALL parks needed at WDW, it was always going to seem and be crowded.

It was always crowded because the demand was outrageously high. Despite the lack of actual regular additions as you noted.

They could continue adding attractions and spending, and to be fair they have outspent most of the competitors (if not all) on capital projects for their parks. The return just isn't there because the parks were already being maxed out by cheap admissions and discounting and the crowding itself was the detriment to the experience. The new attractions they added all ended up with 100, 200 or 300 minute waits.

They could go back to discounting admission and filling the parks up again, but it's going to be the death knell for any kind of future development.