T-1MILLION
New Member
When Disney decided it was time to ruin the classic character by taking away her fun attitude and make her talk and give her pants.
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Is anyone else dissapointed by lack of AiW?
- Thread starter ABigBrassBand
- Start date
When Disney decided it was time to ruin the classic character by taking away her fun attitude and make her talk and give her pants.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
The Pixie Hollow haters are seriously underestimating the success of the franchise. It's not up to princess numbers yet ($4/billion annually) but it's over $2 billion/year and growing. Disney has expanded their plans for DVD releases. The only area where the franchise is weak is the merch that does not feature Tink. That's a relatively small flaw when you consider the mega bucks this franchise rakes in for Disney. It is the number one franchise among girls 6-9.
Alice in Wonderland is not even on that radar. It's not a franchise. It's not an annual cash cow. You can't begin to compare the two. It's an old movie that was something of a disappointment when it was released that has accumulated a small cult following (primarily due to having been prominently featured in Disney Parks for decades).
Sure, I'd welcome an AiW attraction to WDW. But to say it belongs there more than PH is silly. That's letting your own biases blind you to the reality of each property's importance to the company.
Alice in Wonderland is not even on that radar. It's not a franchise. It's not an annual cash cow. You can't begin to compare the two. It's an old movie that was something of a disappointment when it was released that has accumulated a small cult following (primarily due to having been prominently featured in Disney Parks for decades).
Sure, I'd welcome an AiW attraction to WDW. But to say it belongs there more than PH is silly. That's letting your own biases blind you to the reality of each property's importance to the company.
My oldest sister has always been a huge Tinker Bell fan and the whole "Pixie Hallow" thing has just been a new way for her to get her Tinker Bell "fix". I'm sure its the same for a lot of older fans of Tinker Bell.
Why is my sister a HUGE Tinker Bell fan? I honestly have no idea. There is a cult following for the character, but its not something I will ever understand. :shrug:
That leads me to question that everyone seems to be asking.. why are characters from a direct to DVD francise getting such a huge chunck of the expantion? I mean.. give Tink her meet and greet, but the rest of them don't need to be there. I think Disney Marketing was trying to expand the Tinker Bell cult into the new things for tweens, but as a mother of a tween .... I can say that it didn't happen. Alice in Wonderland, even the classic Disney version.... very popular with the 8-12 crowd.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
I've seen no evidence of this whatsoever. Aside from anecdotal evidence, do you have anything at all to back up this claim?
I could see a brief spike in popularity based on the Tim Burton movie. (We dug out the DVD once in the spring.) I've seen a little bit more classic Alice merch at the parks and the Disney Store. But a lot of it is marked down.
inluvwithbeast
New Member
It seems to me that Alice is more popular with older teenager/young adult female audience. I say this because that includes me and my peers, and from what I observed, a great many of us are big fans of Alice. Heck, my senior prom was AiW themed. Unfortunately us 17 to 20-somethings aren't exactly a huge, money-spending group. We don't have mommies and daddies buying us merch.
Another note, my bf's younger sister (she's 15) said something horrible the other day. We were talking about Tinkerbell somehow and this came up.
"Tinkerbell? She's kinda trashy now. Up there with playboy bunny purses."
:lookaroun When did Tink become trashy for teenage girls?? Lol. Oh kids say the darnedest things.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Well, Tink was always a little trashy. But I do think some of the merch today is a little over the top. That's true of some of the princess stuff too. I'll look at some of the stuff in my daughters room and wonder when all the Disney heroines turned into bimbos.
I don't doubt that AiW has had a moderate swell in popularity based on the success of the Tim Burton film. And it's always popular with the parks crowd since it's been featured in the parks for decades. But it's not remotely in the same league as the Disney Faires franchise and it seems unlikely it ever would be.
All this talk about the Fairies franchise losing popularity over time is unfounded. The franchise has grown in popularity annually. If it follows the pattern of the princess franchise, it'll be around for a long time.
Also, remember the primary target group of the Fairies is girls 6-9. These are generally girls who are outgrowing the Princess stage. With the Fairies franchise, Disney holds on to them until they are ready for the latest tween fad on the Disney channel.
Another common criticism I've seen of Pixie Hollow is that it is based on a mere direct-to-video franchise. I don't understand why this is somehow a less deserving medium than feature animation. Walt was among the first to realize the potential in televison. And aside from Fantasyland, most of the lands in Disneyland were themed to his TV shows of the time. If Walt were around today, you better believe he'd be making the most of the direct-to-video market. And promoting it in the parks.
It'd be great to see Alice get some love for all of the AiW fans out there. But to say it belongs there more than Pixie Hollow is silly.
AndyMagic
Well-Known Member
Try over 125 years! The Alice novels were written in the 1800's and after countless film adaptations, new generations continue to like them. It's baffling that Alice isn't in this expansion.
DisneyNut2007
Active Member
Well, we do already have at least one Alice-themed attraction in WDW's Fantasyland---the Mad Tea Party. 
cheezbat
Well-Known Member
Actually, I was just referencing the Disney classic cartoon. I know Alice is older than that.
Why would we hate on something based off a direct-to-DVD movie? Because almost all direct-to-DVD movies are garbage. They're nothing like what's put into theaters...which they happen to spend more time on. I can't honestly think of ANY Disney Direct-to-DVD movie I really enjoyed.
Why would we hate on something based off a direct-to-DVD movie? Because almost all direct-to-DVD movies are garbage. They're nothing like what's put into theaters...which they happen to spend more time on. I can't honestly think of ANY Disney Direct-to-DVD movie I really enjoyed.
SilentWindODoom
Well-Known Member
Actually, you just gave me a great idea. What is they were to do the opposite of what you just said? Rather than move Peter Pan's Flight to Pixie Hollow, why don't they bring Pixie Hollow to Peter Pan's Flight. What is currently sitting across from Peter Pan's Flight? The empty Skyway to Tomorrowland building/stroller area. Why not finally put something new in that large gap between Small World and the Mansion show building. You could expand in that direction and place Pixie Hollow or a small Peter Pan themed area there. If you covered the Mansion show building with a rock face or plant cover, you could probably build right up to it, giving you what looks to be about a 15,000 sqft plot of land to build upon.
Then there'd be plenty of room in the center of the expansion to place an Alice-themed area.
DisneyNut2007
Active Member
Stop obsessing over your Wonderland fantasies already, people! It's already well beyond the point of being annoying!
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Don't hate the medium. Just hate that they haven't put it to proper use.
Also, PH isn't based off of a single direct to DVD movie. It's based off a hugely popular multi-media franchise that includes a series of direct-to-video movies (the 5th was announced earlier this year), a very successful on-line game, a book series and several lines of merchandise.
Alice is certainly a classic tale. Disney's version of it has stood the test of time despite being a disappointment when it was released. But it has no where near the number of fans that Tink and PH have. There's really no comparisson to be made.
I get it. You want Alice. You hate PH. But your personal preferences aside, passing over PH in favor of Alice makes no sense at all.
DisneyNut2007
Active Member
Not only that. The "Tinker Bell" series is not a series of sequels/prequels, but, instead, is more of a seperate spin-off series and thus does not deserve to be lumped in with most other direct-to-video movies.
And with people like Lassetter invovled in the Fairies series, high quality is guaranteed.
Optimus Mouse
New Member
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'm having a hard time buying this. Is there data to back this up?
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Sure. According to Disney's financial statements, PH is a 2-billion-dollar/year (and growing) franchise.
Also, the Fairies franchise appeals to an older demo than the Princesses. Princesses are #1 among girls 3-6 and Fairies are #1 among girls 6-9. That is key because it lets Disney hold on to this demo until they reach the tween/Disney Channel stage.
(This all comes from the notes in the 2009 financial statements.)
There's no mention of Alice because its not a franchise. It's just another film in the Disney library. Disney expects the Disney Fairies to track along the lines of the princesses and continue growing till about 4-billion a year before it levels off.
marcriss
Member
As much as I love the Disney Alice and the Burton Alice I don't think you're going to see Disney do anything major with either. Disney himself didn't like the Alice cartoon. He felt she was an unsympathetic character. And Disney certainly underestimated the appeal of Burton's Alice. The lack of merchandising is amazing considering what Disney can do.
I'm not a huge Tink fan but there are tons of people who are, she's actually got her own Goth niche. I agree some is trashy. But the direct to DVD movies are pretty good and the animation is top quality. The next DVD is coming out soon.
As an adult I'm bummed about meet'n greets, but they are a cheap way for kids to connect with characters they love and that means selling a lot more stuff.
I loved the Alice maze in DLP and would love to see it, I just don't see Disney committing any money to something that may just be a passing fad.
I'm not a huge Tink fan but there are tons of people who are, she's actually got her own Goth niche. I agree some is trashy. But the direct to DVD movies are pretty good and the animation is top quality. The next DVD is coming out soon.
As an adult I'm bummed about meet'n greets, but they are a cheap way for kids to connect with characters they love and that means selling a lot more stuff.
I loved the Alice maze in DLP and would love to see it, I just don't see Disney committing any money to something that may just be a passing fad.
Mr. Morrow
New Member
I just wish they would build Neverland instead of PH.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
If the day ever comes when there is more of a demand for Neverland than Pixie Hollow, they should be able to convert it fairly easily.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Recent history has shown that when Disney has an unexpected hit on their hands, they milk it for all its worth. Cars and High School Musical are good examples of this.
Considering the $1.021 billion Burton's Alice has made along with the millions of copies of it sold on DVD and Blu-ray I find it had to believe Disney will just forget about this like Bolt. With a 59 year old movie that still has selling power already having a presence in the park, it would be smart and simple to "plus" what already exists and to add to the hype of this new Fantasyland.
But the faries deserve thier place as Lebeau has already said numerous times.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Jim Hill (grain of salt) has reported that they are looking at putting Burton's Alice in DHS. Or at least the Depp version of the Mad Hatter.
Unless Burton's Alice becomes a franchise, I don't see them milking this one in the parks. They will try to push as much merch as they can, but Burton's Alice will be a distant memory before they can take advantage of it in the parks.
From what I hear, Disney is hot to have Burton make the Maleficent movie even if it means no Alice sequel. So I think the prospects of a franchise are pretty limited.
I think Disney will treat Maleficent (if it happens) as the de facto sequel to Alice and will push that at the parks (or at least DHS). But until a sequel is announced, I doubt we'll see more of Burton's Alice beyond merch and maybe a Hatter M&G.
Also, I think it's important to differntiate between the Burton Alice and the Disney Alice. The success of the Burton Alice doesn't really indicate much of a demand for the classic animated Alice.
Finally, lest I come across like an Alice-hater, I'd love to see them do something more with Alice. One of the highlights of our last trip was riding the tea cups and seeing Alice and the White Rabbit at the exit. I just see it as very unlikely to happen.