Into The Woods

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Cutting "No More" was a major issue - they didn't kill Rapunzel, completely excised the reprise of Agony (which is pretty important for the development of both princes). They removed most of the sexuality from the film (though I respect Depp for trying), and they softened the deaths that were there. The whole thing felt tamer than what the film should be - changes that may have felt minor (like not killing Rapunzel) actually had domino effects throughout the whole thing.

I think you're over emphasizing the importance of the "Agony" reprise, removing it doesn't really change what Cinderella's Prince does in the second act and the ultimate point of that song is still communicated in "Moments in the Woods". Plus, Cinderella never knows about it anyway so it doesn't affect her decision in the end. It's an amusing song, but not essential to the overall story IMO.

How they handled Rapunzel was probably the biggest improvement for the movie. On stage she was largely played for laughs, which makes her death seem uneventful and more comedic than it should. Taking her seriously gives more weight to key scenes like "Stay With Me" and when she sees the Witch again after her change.
 

Skip

Well-Known Member
I think you're over emphasizing the importance of the "Agony" reprise, removing it doesn't really change what Cinderella's Prince does in the second act and the ultimate point of that song is still communicated in "Moments in the Woods". Plus, Cinderella never knows about it anyway so it doesn't affect her decision in the end. It's an amusing song, but not essential to the overall story IMO.

How they handled Rapunzel was probably the biggest improvement for the movie. On stage she was largely played for laughs, which makes her death seem uneventful and more comedic than it should. Taking her seriously gives more weight to key scenes like "Stay With Me" and when she sees the Witch again after her change.

You're forgetting that it's not just Cinderella's prince that wants to (and does) stray -- Rapunzel's prince wants to as well, before he knows that she's dead. Giving Rapunzel a tad more weight was beneficial to Stay With Me, I agree, but not killing her pretty much robs Witch's Lament of a majority of its power. I felt the whole prince losing his eyesight and then magically getting it back immediately felt overly sappy and entirely unearned.

Cinderella actually does find about it, she's told by the birds confronts the Prince when they cross paths again.

The other thing I forgot to mention was just the lack of general devastation seen. The film did a really great job making moments that could only be imagined or implied in the stage version realized cinematically, but it only really did so for the first act - the second act shied away from showing really anything. The giant's death is supposed to be pretty gruesome, and it comes off as oddly anticlimactic. We're supposed to see Jack's mother's death, and learn directly that Red's grandmother and mother are actually dead. By not seeing the destroyed village or castle and the implied (or explicit) death with that, the whole second act feels hollow.

Not to lean on more established critics to validate my opinion, but I'm not alone in feeling Disney kind of went halfway here (and yes, they did mandate a lot of these changes). Instead of cornering a true prestige, potential Oscar position by opting for a PG13 rating that depicted a less tame adaptation, they went with a calmer, safer version that could net that PG and get a potentially wider audience. I get the decision, there are just pros and cons to each. As someone who enjoys the original show and musical theater in general (as well as darker, more adult material), I was less enthused with the final product than I wanted to be.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
The other thing I forgot to mention was just the lack of general devastation seen. The film did a really great job making moments that could only be imagined or implied in the stage version realized cinematically, but it only really did so for the first act - the second act shied away from showing really anything. The giant's death is supposed to be pretty gruesome, and it comes off as oddly anticlimactic.

I think they ran out of money after a certain point. Same reason why we never see any of the Giant's world, or the festival inside the castle. Disney appeared to be very strict about the film's budget, which is unusual for them given their recent history.
 

Disneyfanman

Well-Known Member
We all liked the film up until the final third. Whether it was cuts, money, or editorial decisions, my family felt like the last third was awful, and it was enough kind of ruin it overall. Having never seen the source material I cannot comment on changes. I did love the music. It was a pacing issue for me. I so very much wanted to love this movie. Hopefully it does well, and not everyone likes every film, but I was pretty disappointed overall.
 

216bruce

Well-Known Member
We all liked the film up until the final third. Whether it was cuts, money, or editorial decisions, my family felt like the last third was awful, and it was enough kind of ruin it overall. Having never seen the source material I cannot comment on changes. I did love the music. It was a pacing issue for me. I so very much wanted to love this movie. Hopefully it does well, and not everyone likes every film, but I was pretty disappointed overall.
Weird. My wife and I felt the opposite way in that we loved the last portion of the movie and found the retelling of fairy tales in the early portions rather 'meh'. Also, I'm actually glad that there wasn't much cg devastation shown or detail of the festival etc. There's nothing at all wrong with letting your imagination work a little . Showing all of that sort of thing is distracting from the characters and their story.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Very good, highly recommended, but outside of technical nominations and maybe the yearly token bone sent Streep's way, its Oscar chances are very slim. Knowing nothing of the show, it was obvious that Rapunzel and her prince's story got shortchanged. Not to mention the alluded to but otherwise ignored sexuality of the Wolf and continously showing each death off screen made it clear that this film would have benefited greatly from a PG-13 rating.

Pine steals the film.
 
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RandomPrincess

Keep Moving Forward
Very good, highly recommended, but outside of technical nominations and maybe the yearly token bone sent Streep's way, its Oscar chances are very slim. Knowing nothing of the show, it was obvious that Rapunzel and her prince's story got shortchanged. Not to mention the alluded to but otherwise ignored sexuality of the Wolf and continously showing each death off screen made it clear that this film would have benefited greatly from a PG-13 rating.

Pine steals the film.
Rapunzel and her prince didn't have too much cut they are defiantly secondary characters even in the stage version. The prince has one an agony reprise with his brother (they both find other princesses in the woods (Snow, and Sleeping Beauty) to cheat on their current princesses with, Rapunzel has twins while banished and is the first victim killed by the giantess. The stage version shows all the deaths off stage as well. The wolf is tricky on stage Red is played by an young adult so the sexuality can be played up more without it being as creepy. Having a 10 year old play Red they were pushing what the wolf could do without making it PG-13. Which maybe it should have been.

I agree Chris Pine was awesome! I was dying watching him.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Rapunzel and her prince didn't have too much cut they are defiantly secondary characters even in the stage version. The prince has one an agony reprise with his brother (they both find other princesses in the woods (Snow, and Sleeping Beauty) to cheat on their current princesses with, Rapunzel has twins while banished and is the first victim killed by the giantess.

I actually have no issue with the screenwriter downsizing the roles for these two characters, considering they're never fully developed and never truly emotionally resonated with the audience; my issue is their treatment is that their storyline was either dropped completely/their finales underwritten. I didn't care one bit for them because they were underwritten, and more than anything, the pacing of the film suffered because of what seemed to be unneeded attention spent on them instead of the core characters.

The stage version shows all the deaths off stage as well.

Then this is something the film should have changed. Film has the benefit of providing finality to a character (since the actor on stage will reappear at the end no matter what), and while gruesome deaths aren't necessary, showing just how bad the losses are would have gone a long way toward creating grief and mourn.

Otherwise, "oh by the way, this person's dead" doesn't resonate as strongly.

The wolf is tricky on stage Red is played by an young adult so the sexuality can be played up more without it being as creepy. Having a 10 year old play Red they were pushing what the wolf could do without making it PG-13. Which maybe it should have been.

It probably should have been. The film tries to have it both ways - playing it a bit risqué while maintaining the ever-elusive family friendly monicker - but it can't decide what side of that line it wants to play on. A fully committed PG-13 version of the show would likely have played better. It just felt....restrained, to a certain extent.

And really, does Disney really think that PG vs. PG-13 for THIS film would have made all the difference for the box office?

Target the Les Miserables/Mamma Mia (ugh)/Chicago crowd in the ad campaign. Profit. Don't hide the fact that it's a musical until a week before release.

I agree Chris Pine was awesome! I was dying watching him.

The cast was very good-to-great overall (though I'm still trying to find out why Blunt has been given some awards consideration to a role I more-or-less consider wafer-thin). Streep is great, but Pine just runs away with every scene he's a part of. "Agony" is far and away the funniest moment in the film, and he plays it beyond perfectly.

And all my complaints aside, it has to be said:

The music is fantastic. The story is exceedingly clever. The performances were great. The production should be commended, especially given a relatively modest $50 million budget for a Oscar-season tentpole. I'm fairly critical of Rob Marshall's films, but this material suited him very well.

B+
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
The film is doing bigger bucks in the box office real then I had thought it would, I am so glad with that. As for the film I have yet to sadly see it as my family INSISTS we watch this one together. When It does I'll mention my own take on it being a fan of the original production. But based off what I have seen I think it's an excellent translation, the only thing I do miss is the lack of ever after and no more. But things are lost in the transition I suppose.
 

RandomPrincess

Keep Moving Forward
The film is doing bigger bucks in the box office real then I had thought it would, I am so glad with that. As for the film I have yet to sadly see it as my family INSISTS we watch this one together. When It does I'll mention my own take on it being a fan of the original production. But based off what I have seen I think it's an excellent translation, the only thing I do miss is the lack of ever after and no more. But things are lost in the transition I suppose.

Ever After plays over the credits - not quite the same but it is there. I enjoyed it. I did miss the second agony but only because Chris Pine steals the show. The first Agony was hilarious the staging was awesome! His seduction of the Bakers wife was great as well.
 

jensenrick

Well-Known Member
I loved this movie SO MUCH, and the packed house that I saw it in all applauded when it was over.

I had considered not seeing it, because of Depp. IMO the only thing stupider than his Wolf costume is his Tonto costume. (with it's bonus racism)

However Meryl is in it, so I had to see it, and I'm SO glad I did. It's been ages since I've enjoyed a movie musical this much. Over the moon!

While Chris Pine is amusing, and everyone laughs when he is on screen- the movie is OWNED by Emily Blunt and Anna Kendrick! Of course Meryl Streep was great and funny and sang beautifully of course, but the sun rose every time Kendrick or Blunt were on screen. Transcendent.

I loved that the trailers before the movie also had Pitch Perfect 2, everyone seemed very excited about seeing Anna in that one, too.
 

BuddyThomas

Well-Known Member
And now a "minimalist" version is opening this month off-Broadway in New York at the Laura Pels Theatre. Here is a preview video from its out of town production:

 

BuddyThomas

Well-Known Member
Very good, highly recommended, but outside of technical nominations and maybe the yearly token bone sent Streep's way, its Oscar chances are very slim. Knowing nothing of the show, it was obvious that Rapunzel and her prince's story got shortchanged. Not to mention the alluded to but otherwise ignored sexuality of the Wolf and continously showing each death off screen made it clear that this film would have benefited greatly from a PG-13 rating.

Pine steals the film.
Rapunzel's prince is great too. He's a wonderful stage actor and was awesome in VANYA AND SONIA AND MASHA AND SPIKE on Broadway. Here is a clip. And stay tuned for Sigourney Weaver dressed as Snow White:

 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Rapunzel's prince is great too. He's a wonderful stage actor and was awesome in VANYA AND SONIA AND MASHA AND SPIKE on Broadway. Here is a clip. And stay tuned for Sigourney Weaver dressed as Snow White:


He was excellent in the scene as well. I just wish the role was better defined.
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
Cutting "No More" was a major issue - they didn't kill Rapunzel, completely excised the reprise of Agony (which is pretty important for the development of both princes). They removed most of the sexuality from the film (though I respect Depp for trying), and they softened the deaths that were there. The whole thing felt tamer than what the film should be - changes that may have felt minor (like not killing Rapunzel) actually had domino effects throughout the whole thing.
The change to not kill rapunzel had such a negative impact on the witch. Not to mention the timing of her departure was also different. WHy would the witch stick around if she knew rapunzel was out there in the first place? It just left her character in a weird place that wasn't as desperate as it needed to be in order for last midnight to work well. The witch was basically on edge after losing rapunzel and her anger was being directed at jack for it, she had a reason to give him up. Here she is just kinda there.
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
Finally saw into the woods, and I think it's a film that could have been a perfect broadway adaption. But due to the neutering of the material it fell short. B+ for what it is though, as it's a beautiful film that has such a great color palette to it. Plus the music that was left in was all performed wonderfully the only issues this film has is when it tries to avert from what was laid out before it. The loss of ever after was what I feel when this production started to lose momentum and steer into it's issues.
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
We all liked the film up until the final third. Whether it was cuts, money, or editorial decisions, my family felt like the last third was awful, and it was enough kind of ruin it overall. Having never seen the source material I cannot comment on changes. I did love the music. It was a pacing issue for me. I so very much wanted to love this movie. Hopefully it does well, and not everyone likes every film, but I was pretty disappointed overall.

I agree, the last third of the film was soooooo boring compared to the rest. It just dragged on and on. Maybe it worked better on stage, but on film it just didn't.

Not to mention there was a lot of telling and not showing. There was that one moment where the narrator was like "oh and Cinderella sat down and cried a magic tree into existence" and then it just shows her under the tree and I'm like "wait, what?! Show us that!" There was also the moment where we see Jack's mom hurt and later on the baker was like "oh yeah, your mom died." and again I'm like, "when did that happen?! We didn't see her die. They have to show us this!"
 

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