Interesting new transportation Option: Whoosh - Autonomous Elevated Cable & Rail System

[TrainsOfDisney]

There were plans. I personally doubt they come to fruition, but I have zero information, it's just my gut feeling.

There were plans and some supports built for monorail expansion haha.

 

[Kevin_W]

It seems to me like if a concept like this was ever implemented in a place like WDW, some kind of ground based system would make more sense. Something like the peoplemover but with individual enclosed vehicles that are able to go around each other and take different paths. The track/roadway would be more expensive to build out but you wouldn't have the operational issues of a Gondola.

The problem is not just "more expensive to build", but "much, much more expensive to build" IMO.

 

[Phonedave]

I know I am probably not the brightest bulb on the tree, but I can't even picture how that would work. It seems like you are saying is that it is like you were driving your car there and just changing your mind and either going to a different place or turning around and going back. We can't even get motor vehicles to do that without killing thousands of people everyday. It would take a lot of "splainin" for me to picture how that possibly can work. I'm not saying it can't, I'm saying that nothing makes me easily understand even slightly how that would function physically.

It is actually quite easy to do when there are two factors that come into play
1. ALL of the vehicles in the system are controlled by the "computer"
2. The paths (roads / cables / rails) are well defined and the vehicles are constrained to the path.

The problem with motor vehicles is that most of them are controlled by other things (humans) that make irrational decisions, such as disregarding check points (running red lights for example), or going outside of the defined roadways.

When the "computer" is controlling everything, it "knows" that it can let one carriage get onto the main line from a spur, because it "knows" there is room to do so, because it "knows" that it is not going to speed up the carriage that is already on the main line.

 

[Phonedave]

Texas and Florida are warm all year. Jersey is not. It is my understanding snow and ice were major contributing factors to the deterioration of the airtrain at Newark. If the cable is not moving constantly, like a ski lift, ice will be an issue.

Back on topic, if a similar stationary cable system was successfully implemented at WDW and proved to be substantially less maintenance, how difficult would it be to modify the existing skyliner system? Could the existing towers carry the heavier “motor on board” vehicles? The existing stations would need to be retrofitted but could be reused. The Boardwalk parking lot turn could become a full hub. An intriguing idea.

It is not like a gondola system. The Cable Liner looks pretty much like the current Air Train, but there is a cable under the track that haul the trains around. The current Air Train at EWR runs 24/7/365. They change out the number of trains running, but there is always at least one in operation. I suspect the will keep the new Cable Liner on a similar schedule.

While I don't know the exact makeup of the Air Train "track", having ridden on the thing more times than I can recall it looks like it is partially made of concrete. Concrete and snow and ice are not a good mix. It is also OLD. It is not as if it prematurely failed because of the winter weather. It's been in operation close to 30 years now.

 

[UNCgolf]

There were plans. I personally doubt they come to fruition, but I have zero information, it's just my gut feeling.

I may be misremembering, but I think Martin indicated they while they do have some plans, they decided it's not the best way to use funds due to the Skyliner's downsides, other than maybe a couple of short add-ons.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I may be misremembering, but I think Martin indicated they while they do have some plans, they decided it's not the best way to use funds due to the Skyliner's downsides, other than maybe a couple of short add-ons.

He's good at guessing things.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It is actually quite easy to do when there are two factors that come into play
1. ALL of the vehicles in the system are controlled by the "computer"
2. The paths (roads / cables / rails) are well defined and the vehicles are constrained to the path.

The problem with motor vehicles is that most of them are controlled by other things (humans) that make irrational decisions, such as disregarding check points (running red lights for example), or going outside of the defined roadways.

When the "computer" is controlling everything, it "knows" that it can let one carriage get onto the main line from a spur, because it "knows" there is room to do so, because it "knows" that it is not going to speed up the carriage that is already on the main line.

San Francisco has been using cable cars for 151 years but they still have limitations that cannot be altered. They are cool but they are just big "gondolas" that run on rails instead of being carried by the cable. They have to have specific stops, they have to stay on whatever path they are on, if something happens in front of them they are not able to go around it and they can't switch to another cable on their own. That's were I am stumped. How is this different from San Francisco and how is that directional change able to happen and if it did wouldn't that much freedom of movement be a massive type of system? Where a city of any size, like that of WDW, would be so expensive and the equipment would be so sophisticated that it might be cheaper to just take a rocket to the Mars. Listen I'm in favor of new technology, but many times the concept is far more workable in ones brain then in the real world.

 

[mergatroid]

San Francisco has been using cable cars for 151 years but they still have limitations that cannot be altered. They are cool but they are just big "gondolas" that run on rails instead of being carried by the cable. They have to have specific stops, they have to stay on whatever path they are on, if something happens in front of them they are not able to go around it and they can't switch to another cable on their own. That's were I am stumped. How is this different from San Francisco and how is that directional change able to happen and if it did wouldn't that much freedom of movement be a massive type of system? Where a city of any size, like that of WDW, would be so expensive and the equipment would be so sophisticated that it might be cheaper to just take a rocket to the Mars. Listen I'm in favor of new technology, but many times the concept is far more workable in ones brain then in the real world.

I'm guessing there's several lines from several points along the route. If a 'car' breaks down the ones behind it reverse to a specific point where they're able to change onto a different line (if that makes sense?). With a computer controlling it all using mathematics it could devise various line changes for different 'cars' to get everyone where they wanted to go as efficiently as possible circumnavigating the broken 'car' and blocked line.

I imagine the points where the 'cars' can change lines would be on a spur section with a kind of similar system to a railway track spur. I can see it being a complex system and one where a lot of trust is needed in the computer system controlling it.

 

[danlb_2000]

San Francisco has been using cable cars for 151 years but they still have limitations that cannot be altered. They are cool but they are just big "gondolas" that run on rails instead of being carried by the cable. They have to have specific stops, they have to stay on whatever path they are on, if something happens in front of them they are not able to go around it and they can't switch to another cable on their own. That's were I am stumped. How is this different from San Francisco and how is that directional change able to happen and if it did wouldn't that much freedom of movement be a massive type of system? Where a city of any size, like that of WDW, would be so expensive and the equipment would be so sophisticated that it might be cheaper to just take a rocket to the Mars. Listen I'm in favor of new technology, but many times the concept is far more workable in ones brain then in the real world.

Their web site is a little light on details because they haven't actually installed one of these systems yet. You can see in this picture is what looks like some sort of switching hub where cars can transfer to different lines or to a station which at the far left of the picture. In stead of being just point to point the cables would form a mesh around the city so if there is a problem on one line the cars can take a different route to their destination.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Their web site is a little light on details because they haven't actually installed one of these systems yet. You can see in this picture is what looks like some sort of switching hub where cars can transfer to different lines or to a station which at the far left of the picture. In stead of being just point to point the cables would form a mesh around the city so if there is a problem on one line the cars can take a different route to their destination.

View attachment 824219

Wouldn't they have to have one of those at every intersection? Otherwise they could find themselves a long way away from where they actually wanted to go. I see what you they are saying, it's sort of a computer controlled traffic circle. I also understand that the cable doesn't move and that the drive power comes from the ride vehicle itself. I'd envision it being used right up until the novelty wears off. Looks good on paper, but I'm still not sure it would work and not have more potential problems than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

 

[Doberge]

The Skyliner cars are supposedly accessible anywhere for emergencies but because the line pulls the cars in practice there are fewer points that need to be accessed, and that seems easier and quicker to repair compared to a system where any car mechanically fail at any point, likely increasing need to access a car at any location, thus needing a more robust ground team. I'm imagining the press around a broken car over Hourglass Lake necessitsted one of the boats or barges (that already exists) to get a cherry picker out to repair or rescue guests. Such situation seems more likely than how the Skyliner is set up.

Or what am I missing?

 

[larryz]

The problem is not just "more expensive to build", but "much, much more expensive to build" IMO.

And there just wasn't quite enough supports for the project...

 

[larryz]

The problem with motor vehicles is that most of them are controlled by other things (humans) that make irrational decisions, such as disregarding check points (running red lights for example), or going outside of the defined roadways.

...and drive too fast for conditions, get distracted by phones and radios and in-car conversations, cut into safety space between vehicles, react violently when other people confront them about their distracted/unsafe driving, get lost, etc.

 

[danlb_2000]

The Skyliner cars are supposedly accessible anywhere for emergencies but because the line pulls the cars in practice there are fewer points that need to be accessed, and that seems easier and quicker to repair compared to a system where any car mechanically fail at any point, likely increasing need to access a car at any location, thus needing a more robust ground team. I'm imagining the press around a broken car over Hourglass Lake necessitsted one of the boats or barges (that already exists) to get a cherry picker out to repair or rescue guests. Such situation seems more likely than how the Skyliner is set up.

Or what am I missing?

If these are meant for urban environments then accessibility probably isn't a big problem since they could be accessed from the street using normal fire rescue equipment. I do wonder if it would be possible to have a special tug vehicle that could be deployed on the line to pull a car to a station.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

I think the Skyliner is too expensive and too inefficient (mainly due to speed) for what it offers, which is why they haven't expanded it.

It's okay for shorter routes (I think a couple of short expansions are possible), but it would not be an effective way to get people around all of WDW.

Plus the novelty factor means they can charge more for the resorts that are on the Skyliner.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

We have never stayed at a Skyliner resort. I am curious for anyone who has, is there really a significant time savings between time it would take for a Disney Bus to take you from the resort to the park, and what the Skyliner offers? Is there really any efficiency/benefit to the Skyliner Transporation as a system, or it is it just a nice added perk/novelty for those resorts?

For any internal transportation system, I generally don't see where alternative systems outweigh the benefits of simple bus systems.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

We have never stayed at a Skyliner resort. I am curious for anyone who has, is there really a significant time savings between time it would take for a Disney Bus to take you from the resort to the park, and what the Skyliner offers?

There can be, Pop Century to Studios is definitely faster on the skyliner vs. the bus.

Using the back entrance of Epcot is also much nicer - it’s less crowded and the walk from the Epcot bus to the entrance is pretty long.

But really it is more the novelty and fun just like monorails and boats all around property.

 

[donaldtoo]

We have never stayed at a Skyliner resort. I am curious for anyone who has, is there really a significant time savings between time it would take for a Disney Bus to take you from the resort to the park, and what the Skyliner offers? Is there really any efficiency/benefit to the Skyliner Transporation as a system, or it is it just a nice added perk/novelty for those resorts?

For any internal transportation system, I generally don't see where alternative systems outweigh the benefits of simple bus systems.

We’ve never stayed at a Skyliner resort.
We stayed at AoA back in June of ‘12, but that, of course, was well before the skyliner came along.
At the end our Epcot day last October, we took it from the IG to DHS just for grins, as our young granddaughters wanted to try it. We took a bus from DHS back to our resort, AKL. We meant to ride it again (just for grins) on our last trip at the end of June/early July, but we never got around to it.
It was fun, but fortunately we had nowhere to be so weren’t on a schedule, per se, because it seems like what could have easily been a more direct trip from Epcot to DHS, is actually pretty convoluted.
I’m no expert on gondola systems, but it seems like they could’ve easily added a connection where I’ve shown the red dashes in the pic below, to make the whole system more efficient…?!!!

 

[UNCgolf]

We’ve never stayed at a Skyliner resort.
We stayed at AoA back in June of ‘12, but that, of course, was well before the skyliner came along.
At the end our Epcot day last October, we took it from the IG to DHS just for grins, as our young granddaughters wanted to try it. We took a bus from DHS back to our resort, AKL. We meant to ride it again (just for grins) on our last trip at the end of June/early July, but we never got around to it.
It was fun, but fortunately we had nowhere to be so weren’t on a schedule, per se, because it seems like what could have easily been a more direct trip from Epcot to DHS, is actually pretty convoluted.
I’m no expert on gondola systems, but it seems like they could’ve easily added a connection where I’ve shown the red dashes in the pic below, to make the whole system more efficient…?!!!

View attachment 824325

I'm not even sure this would be possible with the system. They'd have to have some kind of station there that merged the cars coming from two separate lines, or just build two completely distinct lines that didn't connect.

I assume it would not have been worth the additional expense.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It was fun, but fortunately we had nowhere to be so weren’t on a schedule, per se, because it seems like what could have easily been a more direct trip from Epcot to DHS, is actually pretty convoluted.

The goal of the system was not to connect Epcot and DHS - it was to connect those 2 parks with the resorts.