Insane crowds, more space needed

[MattFrees71]

This will probably get some negative comments, but hear me out...

I would love to see another Disney theme park in the US, other than California or Florida. I know this won't solve the Main Street USA fireworks issue, but our family has opted for different vacation experiences the past few years because of the crowds at Walt Disney World and we always went there in off season. There is no place like it on earth, but using apps to beat lines, all the strategies to maximize FastPass+ and still waiting in crowds for just about everything just seem so opposite of Walt's vision.

Yes, he was a savvy businessman. Yes Disneyland was an ingenious way to have marketing synergy with the films. But early on Walt wrote about wanting the place to be "relaxing" and a place where "kids could play." He was heavily influenced by Griffith Park in LA, Tivoli Gardens in Copenhagen, Electric Park in Kansas City. Honestly, I think he would be horrified by the exiting stampede on Main Street USA and would be pushing Roy for another park or two even.

Disney toyed with building Mineral King at Sequoia National Park in the 1960s and more recently Disney's America in Williamsburg, VA. in the 1990s. I wonder if another park would thin out crowds at existing parks a little bit. I've written before that maybe Disney could even create smaller scale, innovative experiences in several locations around the country. This is Disney we're talking about, the Imagineers.

We want to take our son to see the new Galaxy's Edge before he graduates high school, but hearing podcasts say it will be overrun with crowds for the first few years just discourages us from going. It's a big investment for us.

Disney sets the standard in THEME parks. There are plenty of thrill ride amusement parks in the US, but few theme parks. I'd give Busch Gardens, Williamsburg a huge honorable mention with it's Europe themed lands, great rides, smaller crowds, decent shows and beautiful landscaping, but it's no Disney and I always leave there feeling like I wish I could have the crowds of Busch Gardens with the amazing features of Disney. Busch Gardens isn't even a full year park, but they've learned to do off-season Halloween and Christmas events.

Can we at least dream about a new park and enjoying the magic again? In the mean time, for goodness' sake create some other views of the nighttime show, fly some more amazing character drones that can be seen anywhere around the castle, stage some other popular experiences off Main Street each night, pretty up some extra exits.

I know they would probably never do it, but I can't help always thinking that they should build another Magic Kingdom somewhere in the Midwest or Deep South (if weather is a problem) to pull crowd pressure off of DW's Magic Kingdom. Or build a Disney Park in Brazil or somewhere in South America to lighten the crowds of South American's in January and February at WDW.

 

[thomas998]

I know they would probably never do it, but I can't help always thinking that they should build another Magic Kingdom somewhere in the Midwest or Deep South (if weather is a problem) to pull crowd pressure off of DW's Magic Kingdom. Or build a Disney Park in Brazil or somewhere in South America to lighten the crowds of South American's in January and February at WDW.

South America doesn't make a lot of sense, while the cost of land would be low, the reality is you just don't have enough people with the disposable income to make it work and would rely on people flying in from other continents to give them enough visitor traffic. People assume there are a lot of people in Brazil with enough money to support a park based on the number they see in MK... But most of the Brazilians you see in MK are once in a life time visitors where the parents have to save a lot to send their kids on the trip. The fact is there number of people in South America that have incomes equivalent to your average MK visitors is low, well below what you need to support a park.

Best place for a new park would probably be Texas as the US seems to have enough people to support a park and Texas has weather in some parts that would no require you to shut down during the winter. Going into the midwest I can't see many people willing to go to a theme park when the temps are below freezing, our daughter did a school trip in Missouri once where they did a theme park during an unseasonable cold spell, riding a rollercoaster in the cold isn't enjoyable at all.

 

[larryz]

What is a BOG?

Be Our Guest restaurant. It's in the "fall zone" for some of the fireworks.

 

[Kingoglow]

I think that we can all agree that you folks should all stop going, so that I can have more personal space when I visit.

 

[ppete1975]

I know they kind of tried it with Disney quest but they almost need to have Disney lites. Not the full blown Disney world, but somewhere between six flags and Disney land. More of a park with small B rides lots of room to play but Disney shopping and Disney characters and special dining areas. Then have 2-5 E tickets. But it being more based on a park and a family vacation. Open 3-5 of these in the US and you are printing money and thinning out the crowds. Make these much cheaper, and ingrain Disney in these kids that might not get a chance to go. They would basically go to these every year or more then the BIG park every 5-10.

You could even go crazy and have a galaxys edge, or Pixar land and not a true "Disney land"

 

[SteamboatJoe]

They could build a park in a colder climate if they really, really wanted to. It would just have to run on a limited schedule between January and March, contain a lot of indoor attractions (like Epcot), and contain an alternative attraction in the resort that could capitalize on the winter months. People will endure some pretty cold temps for worthwhile entertainment. The succesful Winterfests atCedar Fair parks and holiday light offerings at zoos prove that. But it does seem very, very, very unlikely to happen.

 

[SteveBrickNJ]

South America doesn't make a lot of sense, while the cost of land would be low, the reality is you just don't have enough people with the disposable income to make it work and would rely on people flying in from other continents to give them enough visitor traffic. People assume there are a lot of people in Brazil with enough money to support a park based on the number they see in MK... But most of the Brazilians you see in MK are once in a life time visitors where the parents have to save a lot to send their kids on the trip. The fact is there number of people in South America that have incomes equivalent to your average MK visitors is low, well below what you need to support a park.

Best place for a new park would probably be Texas as the US seems to have enough people to support a park and Texas has weather in some parts that would no require you to shut down during the winter. Going into the midwest I can't see many people willing to go to a theme park when the temps are below freezing, our daughter did a school trip in Missouri once where they did a theme park during an unseasonable cold spell, riding a rollercoaster in the cold isn't enjoyable at all.

San Antonio and Houston Texas are separated by 200 miles and connected by Interstate 10
Can you envision a Disney Theme Park half way in between those two major cities?
To educate myself on the winter climate in southern Texas I put the following into Google:
"Average high temperature in San Antonio TX in January"
The search result was 64F

 

[thomas998]

San Antonio and Houston Texas are separated by 200 miles and connected by Interstate 10
Can you envision a Disney Theme Park half way in between those two major cities?
To educate myself on the winter climate in southern Texas I put the following into Google:
"Average high temperature in San Antonio TX in January"
The search result was 64F

As much as I would like to have a Disney park closer to the Dallas area, the reality is the weather would probably be better park wise if you were further south probably around the Conroe just to avoid the insane heat in the summer. The worst part of Texas weather is probably the summer heat.

 

[SteveBrickNJ]

As much as I would like to have a Disney park closer to the Dallas area, the reality is the weather would probably be better park wise if you were further south probably around the Conroe just to avoid the insane heat in the summer. The worst part of Texas weather is probably the summer heat.

Well then we are just killing time for kicks. The reality is that Disney is unlikely to put a 3rd park in the USA.

 

[thomas998]

Well then we are just killing time for kicks. The reality is that Disney is unlikely to put a 3rd park in the USA.

I don't know... at some point they are going to realize that the country has enough people to support another park and it will make sense. If they don't do it, there is always the chance Universal will and that would likely force Disney to follow them. Which is probably how a third site in the US will come about, Universal will realize it makes sense and then Disney will try to play catch-up.

 

[Jim Chandler]

Building another park won’t fix the crowds IMO. You forget you also have Universal and WDW is not going to lose the battle in Orlando. You also must realize Fl was one of the top vacation spots before WDW and Universal and still is. Another is that families will take vacations at any time this means more availability. The amount of kids taking on line or home schooling has skyrocketed allowing easier travel for families.
There was a time you stayed miles from the parks because there was nothing available in Wdw or closer that is no longer true. The saving grace is that they are adding to Epcot, HS and AK which might take some of the crowds out of MK.

Suck it up folks this is a golden goose for Florida

 

[kevhugh]

You know what would be a great idea? A Disney theme park based on American history. You could locate it in Northern VA. Iger is busy so maybe bring back Eisner to oversee it.

 

[LaughingGravy]

Another part of the park crowding is the limitation of hours for the price of a main ticket.
I've often commented on how you get more time per $ at DL , but I now have a business trip coming up in April in Orlando ( Yippee!!) , but I won't be able to make it to any of the parks, just Disney Springs.
Downtown Disney District in California is open 7am -2am. Florida's Disney Springs is 10 am - 12am.

 

[Jim Chandler]

Nothing good happens after midnight anywhere.

 

[MagicRat]

One minute till Midnight?

 

[MagicRat]

Or maybe quit complaining and accept that others want to go to Disney and the mouse wants to make a buck.

 

[MagicRat]

I can’t wait to drop my byyearly 300 points and $300 a day on Budlight. Everyone enjoy what they can get, how they want to get it. Disney takes all, be it the the guys who brings cooler and sandwiches or the lady who goes to Victoria & Alberts, enjoy your time and suck it up. Life is short.

 

[Trackmaster]

South America doesn't make a lot of sense, while the cost of land would be low, the reality is you just don't have enough people with the disposable income to make it work and would rely on people flying in from other continents to give them enough visitor traffic. People assume there are a lot of people in Brazil with enough money to support a park based on the number they see in MK... But most of the Brazilians you see in MK are once in a life time visitors where the parents have to save a lot to send their kids on the trip. The fact is there number of people in South America that have incomes equivalent to your average MK visitors is low, well below what you need to support a park.

Best place for a new park would probably be Texas as the US seems to have enough people to support a park and Texas has weather in some parts that would no require you to shut down during the winter. Going into the midwest I can't see many people willing to go to a theme park when the temps are below freezing, our daughter did a school trip in Missouri once where they did a theme park during an unseasonable cold spell, riding a rollercoaster in the cold isn't enjoyable at all.

Plus, Florida is kind of the hub for Latin America in the United States anyway. WDW is already incredibly popular with South Americans, and they're already taking a lot of trips over here for Miami anyway.

I think that Germany would be a good next step market to get into -- but the only problem is that there are already several Disney like parks there. Europa Park is arguably even more magical and grandiose than Disney is. But I was just mentioning Germany because its the spot that's keeping the EU afloat, and they've proven to be a people that will support their theme parks. South Korea would also make sense as its bursting at the seems with economic development and innovation.

In terms of America -- Disney has experimented with putting limited park experiences across the country up north, and its always just come back to WDW and DL. I think that anything that they'd do would have to be a 365 park -- as even as far south as Atlanta it will still get below freezing as early as November, and Disney needs that time for the Thanksgiving and Christmas rush. So the only states that are really even eligible are California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Hawaii, and Florida. Texas obviously makes a lot of sense, and would probably be the go to spot. Hawaii would be ideal too, but land might be way too expensive. I actually kind of think that South Florida would make sense too, as its really a whole different world from Central Florida, and could capture some more of the Latin market. Arizona and New Mexico could work great as well with the dry heat -- but may be too close to DL.

 

[Trackmaster]

I think that another solution to help containing the crowds beyond building more parks is to extend the hours. The hours are already pretty generous, but if instead of opening at 9:00 AM and closing at 8:00 PM, why not open at 8:00 AM and close at 11:00PM? At least then, if people complain about crowds you just could remind them how dead it would be for an EMH at 6:00AM.

Well let's not kid ourselves, it would still be crowded even if they extend hours.

 

[MattFrees71]

Here's an interesting look at what crowds were like in mid-August 1982 at Magic Kingdom with footage of a walking tour. Incredibly good quality home video for that time also. Boy I wish it was like this today. Seems to have a much more relaxed atmosphere, and it's amazing how uncrowded Main Street is. Notice though how even back then it got a little more crowded in some of the narrow pathways in Frontierland, Adventureland, and Fantasyland (in front of Small World and Peter Pan). In regard to my earlier comment in this thread- you can see how if back then it got a little more crowded in those areas, it is absolutely horrendous today. Also remember that Magic Kingdom was the only park there at the time. It's amazing to think that with the crowd levels at MK in this video, that was consisting of most people at the resort! and now today- even though there are 4 parks- the crowds there are that much more worse!