Inferno barge missing from illumiNation 11/6

[marni1971]

Any timeline on this?

I doubt by February, but I`d hope to see some new things by next summer.

 

[HMF]

ROE is a magnificent piece of art. Even though its old,

Hey quit making me feel old.

 

[Sage of Time]

Repairs are still being made to the Inferno Barge, hopefully it will be back in show by Monday. It will be going out for another rehab in probably Jan or Feb.

is it back yet? thanks!

 

[Epcotbob]

is it back yet? thanks!

It's back! It was there last night (11/17) in all it's glory....

However the Earth Globe malfunctioned and didn't open up for the final sequence.....so no pyro from the center.

 

[ToTBellHop]

RoE is getting to be like an 85-year old...just had the hip fixed and now the knee gives out...

 

[Epcotbob]

RoE is getting to be like an 85-year old...just had the hip fixed and now the knee gives out...

Ha! Ha! That's a perfect analogy....it's a great show, but it's getting harder and harder to keep it all together. Even the aerials were a little out of sequence.

 

[askmike1]

Ha! Ha! That's a perfect analogy....it's a great show, but it's getting harder and harder to keep it all together. Even the aerials were a little out of sequence.

The fireworks have been out of its original sync for years.

 

[wdwmagic]

It's back! It was there last night (11/17) in all it's glory....

However the Earth Globe malfunctioned and didn't open up for the final sequence.....so no pyro from the center.

Thanks, glad to hear its back

 

[JustInTime]

On the 15th the Barge was out and it worked perfectly. Infact, it seemed like the show was better than I remember. Also, all the torches were working.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

The fireworks have been out of its original sync for years.

To be honest, its been hit or miss since the show was created. Right now, Chaos (now that the inferno barge is back) is in great shape, and Celebration is in sync most nights as well, but Home and Adventure need work (not sure what happend but there's some really inconsistent product in these sections right now). And even if the Earth Barge didn't open last night, it finally has all its effects back (strobes, searchlights, etc) for the first time in years.

Every so often there will be a few weeks or so when the stars align and all the show effects go off more or less perfectly. There have ALWAYS been timing and technical issues, even in 2000 when the show and hardware was brand new.

 

[ToTBellHop]

To be honest, its been hit or miss since the show was created. Right now, Chaos (now that the inferno barge is back) is in great shape, and Celebration is in sync most nights as well, but Home and Adventure need work (not sure what happend but there's some really inconsistent product in these sections right now). And even if the Earth Barge didn't open last night, it finally has all its effects back (strobes, searchlights, etc) for the first time in years.

Every so often there will be a few weeks or so when the stars align and all the show effects go off more or less perfectly. There have ALWAYS been timing and technical issues, even in 2000 when the show and hardware was brand new.

It likely just needs upgrades. Wishes came out several years later and the pyro is noticably better synchronized with the music. Back in the late-90s, having fireworks synchronized with music was still pretty novel.

 

[WDW Monorail]

It likely just needs upgrades. Wishes came out several years later and the pyro is noticably better synchronized with the music. Back in the late-90s, having fireworks synchronized with music was still pretty novel.

The timing doesn't have much to do with the technology of the show, rather it is how the product is made. For instance, the red floating strobes in Chaos were out of synch for several months. Since these are mass produced, hundreds of these were made before they were shipped out. The production continued until the shipment arrived in Florida, the strobes were used and were discovered to be out of synch. The time from when one strobe is made to when it is used in the show could be a few months. There was a backlog of "bad" strobes that had to be used up before new, better synched ones could be made, shipped and used.

Occasionally there are timing problems with shells that are shared between Wishes and RoE that are quite noticeable. Again, it is due to how the shell is made, not the controller which shoots it.

 

[Rob562]

The timing doesn't have much to do with the technology of the show, rather it is how the product is made. For instance, the red floating strobes in Chaos were out of synch for several months. Since these are mass produced, hundreds of these were made before they were shipped out. The production continued until the shipment arrived in Florida, the strobes were used and were discovered to be out of synch. The time from when one strobe is made to when it is used in the show could be a few months. There was a backlog of "bad" strobes that had to be used up before new, better synched ones could be made, shipped and used.

Occasionally there are timing problems with shells that are shared between Wishes and RoE that are quite noticeable. Again, it is due to how the shell is made, not the controller which shoots it.

I've always wondered if they could develop a new dynamic pyro control system that could be easily changed without messing with the overall show programming.

I know that modern pyro design programs do a lot of the calculation for the designer, where the designer tells it when the in-air explosion should happen, and then the computer counts backwards to determine the proper moment where ignition should happen. But it's obvious that small defects in manufacturing can affect that pre-calculated launch point.

I envision something like a spreadsheet, where you have a long list of every type of shell they use in the show. Next to each shell is a timing number, which is the recording of the fuse's delay between ignition of the launch charge and the in-air explosion.

Then, on a regular basis, they test-fire one of each shell and determine the actual delay of the current shells they're using (perhaps filming each firing with a high-speed camera). Then they update the spreadsheet as necessary, and the show pulls the data from the spreadsheet. That way the show is launched using the *actual* time-delay of the pyro being used in the show, and not the specs that the pyro is *supposed* to be manufactured with...

This could be done on a regular basis, at least for the shells deemed critical for the show. Or even on a non-scheudled basis where they test one shell from each new shipment. (I don't know how in-bulk they buy their pyro) It could also be used more sparingly for the most expensive shells unless a real timing problem in them develops.

-Rob

 

[Alektronic]

I've always wondered if they could develop a new dynamic pyro control system that could be easily changed without messing with the overall show programming.

I know that modern pyro design programs do a lot of the calculation for the designer, where the designer tells it when the in-air explosion should happen, and then the computer counts backwards to determine the proper moment where ignition should happen. But it's obvious that small defects in manufacturing can affect that pre-calculated launch point.

I envision something like a spreadsheet, where you have a long list of every type of shell they use in the show. Next to each shell is a timing number, which is the recording of the fuse's delay between ignition of the launch charge and the in-air explosion.

Then, on a regular basis, they test-fire one of each shell and determine the actual delay of the current shells they're using (perhaps filming each firing with a high-speed camera). Then they update the spreadsheet as necessary, and the show pulls the data from the spreadsheet. That way the show is launched using the *actual* time-delay of the pyro being used in the show, and not the specs that the pyro is *supposed* to be manufactured with...

This could be done on a regular basis, at least for the shells deemed critical for the show. Or even on a non-scheudled basis where they test one shell from each new shipment. (I don't know how in-bulk they buy their pyro) It could also be used more sparingly for the most expensive shells unless a real timing problem in them develops.

-Rob

Like WDW Monorail said, 99% of the time it is product issues. You get what you pay for, most of the fireworks come from China, there is about a 6 month lead time for big orders, so the product used by the Holiday ROE and Peace Tag had to be ordered in May. It takes a slow boat from China, then has to be trucked from California. So by the time they get it, they have to stock it and inventory it and get it ready for the pyro installers. Then if the product has issues or manufacturing problems, then they just have to use it anyway, you can't easily get an replacement.

 

[marni1971]

For instance, the red floating strobes in Chaos were out of synch for several months.

More like a few years :wave:

 

[Rob562]

Like WDW Monorail said, 99% of the time it is product issues. You get what you pay for, most of the fireworks come from China, there is about a 6 month lead time for big orders, so the product used by the Holiday ROE and Peace Tag had to be ordered in May. It takes a slow boat from China, then has to be trucked from California. So by the time they get it, they have to stock it and inventory it and get it ready for the pyro installers. Then if the product has issues or manufacturing problems, then they just have to use it anyway, you can't easily get an replacement.

Right. The system I described would take those manufacturing defects into account (at least somewhat, assuming that an entire shipment was made similar to each other).
With each new shipment, they could test-fire one shell to determine it's delay, and then have the system adjust launching times in the show to account for the change between the original programming and the now-off-spec pyro shipment they just got.

-Rob

 

[PhilharMagician]

Like WDW Monorail said, 99% of the time it is product issues. You get what you pay for, most of the fireworks come from China, there is about a 6 month lead time for big orders, so the product used by the Holiday ROE and Peace Tag had to be ordered in May. It takes a slow boat from China, then has to be trucked from California. So by the time they get it, they have to stock it and inventory it and get it ready for the pyro installers. Then if the product has issues or manufacturing problems, then they just have to use it anyway, you can't easily get an replacement.

Does WDW make any of the shells onsite or are all of them imported?

 

[WDW Monorail]

Does WDW make any of the shells onsite or are all of them imported?

WDW does not make thier shells, rather they are bought from companies in America, China, Italy and maybe another which I don't remember right now.

As for the system that Rob proposed, that is likely what happens whenever a seasonal show is added. Take a look at a video of the first Holiday Wishes show this year. Then watch one of the more recent shows. The timing is different in several places. A designer is likely brought in to tweak the cues. It may not happen on a regular basis, but I'm sure it does occasionally.

Timing issues are much more noticeable in RoE since pyro is highly dependent on the music. Other shows such as WIshes are more loosely choreographed. Even if one hasn't seen RoE before, one can expect when a break or burst or some other effect is supposed to happen.

 

[PhilharMagician]

WDW does not make thier shells, rather they are bought from companies in America, China, Italy and maybe another which I don't remember right now.

As for the system that Rob proposed, that is likely what happens whenever a seasonal show is added. Take a look at a video of the first Holiday Wishes show this year. Then watch one of the more recent shows. The timing is different in several places. A designer is likely brought in to tweak the cues. It may not happen on a regular basis, but I'm sure it does occasionally.

Timing issues are much more noticeable in RoE since pyro is highly dependent on the music. Other shows such as WIshes are more loosely choreographed. Even if one hasn't seen RoE before, one can expect when a break or burst or some other effect is supposed to happen.

Thank you for the answer.