In the Cards or a Stacked Deck?

[WDW1974]

Read Kevin Yee's latest column, which is all about the new Sorcerors of the MK game:



I generally refrain from critiquing a product until I experience it in the theme park world, but I'm still gonna offer up some thoughts.

Kevin (who I am sure will chime in here) seems absolutely giddy about SotMK. But, to be fair, he has two young children -- which certainly appears to be a target audience. And he also is a local geek who visits weekly that is pretty bored with much of what is already there.

I am quite sure by those metrics, SotMK may well be successful. But I don't like the fact it exists at all. And I am a whole lot more down on it than the Kim Possible WS Adventure, which is a fun enough, small-scale attraction that draws folks into the WS pavilions and doesn't really take away much from what's already there ... except every once in a while when you have six people standing in front of a window attempting to get an effect to trigger.

The issues I have with SotMK seem to be things Kevin glosses over in his column.

Things like the fact it further toons down the MK. He bemoans the fact the Fire Station is no longer a shop (because God knows Disney doesn't have enough dead zones to set it up elsewhere), instead of the fact the Fire Station is no longer well ... a fire station.

Things like the fact those high quality paper cards are gonna be fodder for local bloggers and podcasters who want to collect them and eBay them (because that's what it's all about, after all ... do you know there is something called ephemera and that crazy fans will spend $125 for a 1977 Disney travel magazine I have in a box in my closet or $47 for an America on Parade guidebook for CMs or $25 for a 10/1/11 MK guidemap?!?!?)

It seems like Kevin is saying Disney needs to throw in the towel and make the MK a giant screen-filled scavenger hunt. BTW, maybe I am an old fart Spirit but I recall spending decades with countless visits to Disney Parks where I never was close to bored enough to ever wish to play a game in the park (other than, perhaps, making fun of the poorly dressed spirits I'd see!).

Kev seems to suggest that people are so stupid today and so into their electronic toys that Disney needs to just give them what they desire. I so disagree with the point. First, if the MK is so boring it needs scavanger hunts to justify its $90 a day admission, then Disney should be spending huge sums on reinvestment and adding quality attractions and shows and entertainment, so people aren't bored.

And if they are so addicted (and it IS an addiction for millions) that they'll be on those toys when in queues anyway (as Kev sez), I'd be doing as much to interfere with said devices as Disney's techno minions can. If people can't get onto FB or Twitter, they'll live without them and explore the park.

I found Kevin's column drepressing, frankly, because it basically suggests the battle is lost, people are simple, if kids and local geeks are happy then adding this was money well spent, the MK has already lost any sense of place, so adding toons to every land in any/every place is acceptable etc.

Again, I just don't see people (and they have the same toys) so bored from IOA to DL to TDS to DLP to SW to HKDL that they really aren't interested in anything beyond their little screen. This is just a giant WDI experiment in technology in a way that few people will experience and fewer will consider a value to their visits instead of doing something like building attractions.

Much like NEXTGEN, it sure doesn't look like something that's gonna make people spend $8,000 on a MAGICal WDW vacation.

~21~

 

[invader]

People are so anti-technology and anti-synergy, it makes me laugh.

 

[WDW1974]

People are so anti-technology and anti-synergy, it makes me laugh.

Technology for the sake of it is simply cold.

Test Track and Mission Space are so many worlds technologically beyond things like Mansion or PoC or CoP. Yet, they aren't great attractions because they have no heart, no soul, no real humanity. They are examples of what you can do with tech. Does your iPad keep you warm at night?:animwink:

Synergy has come to mean a whole lot more than was ever intended. It was always important to Disney, that's why you had Zorro and Davy Crockett in Frontierland in 1955! That's why you had parades open when films like the Lion King, Aladdin and Mulan opened in theaters.

There's a big difference between that and putting the Disney BRAND on anything/everything.

A fanboi or an Imagineer may be able to argue why Pocahontas or Princess and the Frog characters belong in Liberty Square, just like I can make an excuse as to why I should have an army of servants taking care of my every whim too. Doesn't make either of us right!

~Banks lying?!?!? In the USA?!??! NEVER!!!~

 

[Bork Bork]

While I heartily agree with most everything in Spirit's post on a heart-level, I have to concede that Kevin is probably right-on when it comes to peoples' habits and Disney's apparent catering to them.

I teach high school students, a majority of whom say they'd rather DIE than be without their phone. We had an honor student who violated our school's digital device policy and had his smartphone confiscated. He went ballistic and broke a door and several windows and ended up with a 2 week suspension plus restitution when he could have just picked up his phone at the end of the day. I'd hate to think what guests would do if "Disney's techno minions" were "doing as much to interfere with said devices" as they could.

Sad story aside, I'd much prefer a park where people left behind the technology and trinkets that detract from the amazing "otherness" and escape that the parks can provide.

 

[WDW1974]

While I heartily agree with most everything in Spirit's post on a heart-level, I have to concede that Kevin is probably right-on when it comes to peoples' habits and Disney's apparent catering to them.

I teach high school students, a majority of whom say they'd rather DIE than be without their phone. We had an honor student who violated our school's digital device policy and had his smartphone confiscated. He went ballistic and broke a door and several windows and ended up with a 2 week suspension plus restitution when he could have just picked up his phone at the end of the day. I'd hate to think what guests would do if "Disney's techno minions" were "doing as much to interfere with said devices" as they could.

Sad story aside, I'd much prefer a park where people left behind the technology and trinkets that detract from the amazing "otherness" and escape that the parks can provide.

In my high school days (yes, well before the cell phone era -- didn't have my first until 1993!), you'd get suspended for having a beeper in school (remember those?)

I'd say that honor student has some real mental illness going on ... addiction is a REAL problem ... and people (and schools) need to face it and not ignore it like they did for years as Americans decided morbid obesity was a perfectly acceptable 'lifestyle choice'.

~I wish I had the patience of my doctor!~

 

[djkidkaz]

Noone is going to like everything. To me New Fantasyland is a classic Disney theme park addition, where as SotMK is geared towards a newer audience. Disney has to walk that line and keep itself relevant to every generation. And people are complaining about the Firehouse being repurposed? Did anyone actually ever go in there? You suggest there are deadzones all over the park, but you know what, the firehouse WAS a deadzone! I don't think I stopped in there once in all my trips over the past decade. Everybody gets something different from the theme parks. For some its about rides, for others its about characters, or architecture or taking photos, relaxing at the resort or just spending time with the family. You can't compare the relevance of a theme park between someone with kids and someone without kids. Or a teenager to a grown adult. Since my first trip to WDW some many years ago, even I have changed what I like about the parks and WDW as a whole.

I feel bad for those of you that labor over the smallest minutia. I hope I never get to a point where all I want to do is complain that some animatronics on Splash Mountain aren't working. If its for a prolonged period of time, like the Yeti, then ok, I can see the issue, but to have someone post a video of something not exactly right at WDW and people can't wait to remark how it is the decline of the product is mind boggling to me. Nothing as large as WDW is going to be perfect all the time and in this day of the internet and instant feedback through cellphones, etc. your going to see some things that aren't always perfect. But as long as Disney attempts to make things right, then I can't fault them.

 

[Horizonsfan]

While I heartily agree with most everything in Spirit's post on a heart-level, I have to concede that Kevin is probably right-on when it comes to peoples' habits and Disney's apparent catering to them.

I teach high school students, a majority of whom say they'd rather DIE than be without their phone. We had an honor student who violated our school's digital device policy and had his smartphone confiscated. He went ballistic and broke a door and several windows and ended up with a 2 week suspension plus restitution when he could have just picked up his phone at the end of the day. I'd hate to think what guests would do if "Disney's techno minions" were "doing as much to interfere with said devices" as they could.

Sad story aside, I'd much prefer a park where people left behind the technology and trinkets that detract from the amazing "otherness" and escape that the parks can provide.

Sounds like that student has some underlying issues. When I was in HS, people had there phones taken away all the time, nobody ever flipped out like that. Sure you'd have a girl or two get moody but other than that, people coped with the situation.

Many people are glued to their phones. Honestly, I'm not sure that WDW needs to worry about distracting them. They should worry about having engaging and exciting experiences for everyone, but to try to pander to folks who could care less where they're at is the wrong way of going about it.

SMK is sort of a wash, for the most part it's utilizing otherwise useless spaces. I'd prefer if they utilized original/more land specific characters but, the ones they're using are at least tangentially related. The main problem in execution with SMK (and the World Showcase Adventure) is that they're so loud/obnoxious in spots that they distract others who have no interest in it. If they could make them more subdue that'd go a long way towards improving things. The biggest problem overall is the fact that once again funds were spent on this rather than on sprucing up something that really needed it lookarounSplash:lookaroun).

 

[Thrill]

People are so anti-technology and anti-synergy, it makes me laugh.

Technology isn't bad. I am all for progress. However, when it comes to theme parks, the technology comes to the story, not the other way around. You don't say, "Here is this new, cutting edge mechanism we have, let's put it to use." You say, "We want to tell this story, but the best way to tell it doesn't exist using modern technology. Let's make it happen."

Technology for the sake of technology is not beneficial.

As for synergy, I'm cool with it here or there, but it gets to be excessive at a certain point. The parks, at some level, need to be their own entity, not a billboard to advertise the latest movie or TV show Disney is releasing. The Pirates of the Caribbean refurb a few years ago is a shining example of synergy gone wrong. I'm cool with a Johnny Depp cameo, but they turned a classic into a Johnny Depp fest.

 

[wdwmagic]

I have not seen this first hand, so I don't want to comment much. BUT, much like KP at Epcot, I feel that in theory it is a good use of existing infrastructure to make a game. I'm not one for card-based games, so I don't know if I will actaully enjoy the gameplay, but I'll give it a go, and I'm sure a lot of others will like that style of play. I really don't see the harm in it so far - I think it can be viewed as another level to the parks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I just said this in the Eddie Sotto thread, but I am still not convinced that people "need" the constant stimulation now any more than in the past. I think more needs to be looked at the number of people who are repeat visitors.

I think all of this emphasis on the technology platforms is an example of the industry as a whole being lazy. Instead of trying to create experiences that deal with the new dynamics, it is easier to just compete with the little games. I think that, in time, the luster will wear on these as well once people go through the variations and there is no longer anything new to experience.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I played the game (was there with Kevin when we tried it out for his article), and I also enjoyed it even in test mode. It won't make people come to the park, but I think that it gives you something fun and new to do there. However, I don't really want to get into much of a review since it will be a futile effort where I will be told sarcastically why my opinion is wrong and I am for walmarting and pixie dust. However, you are entitled to your opinion even if you haven't tried it yet.

 

[ToTBellHop]

A bit odd to post your views of something you have admittedly not experienced.

I will say this--my wife and I are both in our late 20s and thought SotMK was phenomenal.

 

[WDW1974]

Technology isn't bad. I am all for progress. However, when it comes to theme parks, the technology comes to the story, not the other way around. You don't say, "Here is this new, cutting edge mechanism we have, let's put it to use." You say, "We want to tell this story, but the best way to tell it doesn't exist using modern technology. Let's make it happen."

Technology for the sake of technology is not beneficial.As for synergy, I'm cool with it here or there, but it gets to be excessive at a certain point. The parks, at some level, need to be their own entity, not a billboard to advertise the latest movie or TV show Disney is releasing. The Pirates of the Caribbean refurb a few years ago is a shining example of synergy gone wrong. I'm cool with a Johnny Depp cameo, but they turned a classic into a Johnny Depp fest.

I bolded the part I feel most important, although it's all a great post ... I sometimes feel like Bob Iger and many in Glendale want nothing more than hordes of visitors walking through the parks with iPads (special Disney editions), eyes manically glazed over and fingers doing that absurd finger/hand motion that has become so 'natural' to those addicted to the altar of Jobs.

Technology on its own isn't all that impressive. Look at AAs ... imagine if in 1963 you took all the showmanship out, the quality, the storytelling and just had robot birds making birdie-sounds ... no singing, no joking, no personalities.

There's only so far tech will take you. I love rolley coasters, but I'll take a ride on any version of BTMRR worldwide over a Cedar Point record-setter because I want an immersive experience. I want to be pulled into a story, not ripped away and reminded that its 2012 and I can simply play with a toy I am addicted to.

~Ohhhh ... puppppppiess!~

 

[WDW1974]

I have not seen this first hand, so I don't want to comment much. BUT, much like KP at Epcot, I feel that in theory it is a good use of existing infrastructure to make a game. I'm not one for card-based games, so I don't know if I will actaully enjoy the gameplay, but I'll give it a go, and I'm sure a lot of others will like that style of play. I really don't see the harm in it so far - I think it can be viewed as another level to the parks.

Not sure yet, which I said in my original post ... sometimes I think I need Frank Luntz here saying 'Spirited dude, it isn't what you say that counts, it's what they hear!'

I wasn't thrilled with the idea of KP and I actually enjoy it a fair bit and think it's very well done (again, with the caveat of what it is). This seems and looks to be much more intrusive and out of place. And, frankly, I've watched the parks get so stale over the years that I want a nice 5 and 10-year plan for growth and REAL new things ... like attractions, parades, shows, night spectaculars, even dining and retail.

But even as nice as KP is -- and maybe I'm being harsh on this SotMK -- I don't believe 99.9% of park guests are going to be driven to visit because of the ability to play a glorified scavanger hunt in the MK. This is an example of vain Imagineers and out of touch execs (all the way up the ladder) trying to reinvent the Disney Park experience instead of simply building on and improving it.

Maybe RSR at DCA is taking things to a new level. It's certainly aiming high. WWoHP at IOA certainly also aimed (and I would say succeeded) to raise the bar.

This? ... This sounds like the waste of a lot of time, money and effort that clearly could have gone to better use.

 

[Monty]

You haven't experienced it for yourself, but you're expounding as though you're an expert?

To steal brazenly from Barbie in Toy Story: "Buh-Bye"

I have the courtesy to save my diatribes for when I at least can rationally pretend I know what I'm talking about.

 

[WDW1974]

I just said this in the Eddie Sotto thread, but I am still not convinced that people "need" the constant stimulation now any more than in the past. I think more needs to be looked at the number of people who are repeat visitors.

I think all of this emphasis on the technology platforms is an example of the industry as a whole being lazy. Instead of trying to create experiences that deal with the new dynamics, it is easier to just compete with the little games. I think that, in time, the luster will wear on these as well once people go through the variations and there is no longer anything new to experience.

I need to head over to that thread. Someone told me the same discussion is going on over there, which I didn't realize (although for newcomers this will be easier to wade into).

But I also have my doubts about the constant stimulation excuse. I heard the same thing about my generation -- the MTV Generation ... we needed constant action, we needed to be doing 3-4 things at once, we couldn't sit still and enjoy a show, a play, a movie. No attention span etc.

Hear the same now. I think there's a TINY bit of truth in it with all the 24/7 online addicts. But if Disney Parks are where you go to escape from the real world and immerse yourself in Pixie Dust, I can't see how it follows that you need to tweet or update your status or play Angry Birds.

When you start worrying about platforms and being enamored of them instead of content, you are in trouble. And, no Mr. Iger, I don't believe anyone really wants to watch a movie on a smartphone.

 

[WDW1974]

I played the game (was there with Kevin when we tried it out for his article), and I also enjoyed it even in test mode. It won't make people come to the park, but I think that it gives you something fun and new to do there. However, I don't really want to get into much of a review since it will be a futile effort where I will be told sarcastically why my opinion is wrong and I am for walmarting and pixie dust. However, you are entitled to your opinion even if you haven't tried it yet.

My comments were regarding Kevin's column and the concept in general. I can't talk about experiencing it myself, so I'm refraining from it (although that doesn't often stop folks who haven't visited parks around the world that I have or experienced some of what I have behind the scenes from telling me that I am talking out of my behind!:brick

My questions are: does this dilute the lands further? (it would seem so) was this the best use of capital? (one could simply look at how much is falling apart and think maybe not) does this kind of implicitly say 'we know the MK is boring and hasn't had enough new things?' (again, seems so) is this best direction Disney can go in theme park experiences when UNI is building things like Potter? (I don't think so, even if I were to enjoy the experience).

That's where I am coming from.

I don't see folks tweeting from their Doombuggies, do you? I have yet to see one person updating their FB status while inside Hogwart's at IOA, have you? I don't see people playing Angry Birds in the ToT queue at ANY park, do you?

It just seems like a great excuse to lower the bar in general, even if the specific thing may not be so bad.

 

[Tigger1988]

I've seen people post pictures and statuses while in Hogwarts at IOA, yes. I've also seen people on their phones in line at ToT and just about every other queue on property.

Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[grunter]

I don't see folks tweeting from their Doombuggies, do you? I have yet to see one person updating their FB status while inside Hogwart's at IOA, have you? I don't see people playing Angry Birds in the ToT queue at ANY park, do you?

I've actually seen a woman talk on her cell phone through the entire "It's a Small World" ride - despite a whole boat of people asking her to shut the phone off.

Or what about these people that use their crappy cell-phone cameras in every dark ride at EVERY ANIMATRONIC, flashing their way through the ride, ruining the atmosphere for everyone?

I'd be more than happy to have a no cell-phone policy at the parks. It's *that* distracting for people that don't want that constant intrusion into their Disney experience.

 

[KevinYee]

Over in micechat proper (the discussion boards), the issue also came up about cartoonization of the parks. And I realized right away that yes, I think I have internally given up the fight on this point. Thrown in the towel, even.

The Magic Kingdom is not Disneyland, and the purist in me would fight for Disneyland theme integrity longer than Magic Kingdom. Possibly that's because I'm from the West Coast, but I think it might also be because it's already a lost cause in the MK.

For the average visitor (let alone the first time visitor), SotMK will be a non-issue, I think. For the repeat visitor, it will either be a lark or an irritant. For the frequent visitor, local, or DVC returnee, it may well be welcomed with open arms for just being new and different (this was the point of my article - that the regulars are being courted for perhaps the first time ever in Orlando).