Imagination Update

WDWFigment

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
MythBuster said:
Let me clarify this first, the part about constant breakdowns, 99% of the time it isn't a ride problem because of mechanical breakdown, it does happen but not too often. Usually, problems are induced by guests or operators, guests standing up when they aren't supposed to, or not getting on and off vehicles fast enough, and then operators trying to comopensate for that, and slow everything down or stop it. and vehicles cascade or throw the timing off.

Have you ever seen that commercial about Visa? Where everything works like a well-oiled machine, everything is flowing smoothly like the garden supply or the cafeteria, then there is one person who makes everyone else stop, and clogs things up, then it goes again? You do that enough times and it gets things confused or clogged up and then they have to reset everything again and start over.

So if you are constantly slowing or stopping the ride and then restarting, then it will eventually have problems. If the rides were operated like they were designed, then there wouldn't be as many problems.
Click to expand...

I understand this, but I thought the problem was that the old JII mechanism couldn't accommodate for this constant stopping and starting very well, whereas newer ride mechanisms can? Or is it just a product of the opening scene in general? I know Space Mountain suffers from the same type of problem (long downtimes due to stopping and starting) and much of this was fixed in DL with an update to the ride mechanism. Wouldn't it be possible to do the same with JII?
 
mousermerf

mousermerf

Account Suspended
In short what was wrong with Journey:

The vehicles worked sort of like the TTA. They start as a chain like an omnimover and then break into little groups. The same problem occurs at the TTA, that the vehicles get out of proper pacing and some return to the station late. This just means a gap at the TTA.

At Imagination, it's a bigger problem, because the turntable was designed with the idea that the vehicles would always be departing the station in their perfect chain. They didn't, and gaps form, and the vehicles end up stuck between two shows or half a train in one show and half in another.

Simple, easy, that's what was wrong with it.

Oh - also the reverse. Trains would arrive early and push on the trains locked into the unload station. It would cause the whole set to bow outward and occasionally jump the track.
 
E

Enigma

Account Suspended
mousermerf said:
In short what was wrong with Journey:

The vehicles worked sort of like the TTA. They start as a chain like an omnimover and then break into little groups. The same problem occurs at the TTA, that the vehicles get out of proper pacing and some return to the station late. This just means a gap at the TTA.

At Imagination, it's a bigger problem, because the turntable was designed with the idea that the vehicles would always be departing the station in their perfect chain. They didn't, and gaps form, and the vehicles end up stuck between two shows or half a train in one show and half in another.

Simple, easy, that's what was wrong with it.

Oh - also the reverse. Trains would arrive early and push on the trains locked into the unload station. It would cause the whole set to bow outward and occasionally jump the track.
Click to expand...

However with modern advances in engineering and computer technology couldn't these problems be fixed now?
 
Slowjack

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
mousermerf said:
In short what was wrong with Journey:

The vehicles worked sort of like the TTA. They start as a chain like an omnimover and then break into little groups. The same problem occurs at the TTA, that the vehicles get out of proper pacing and some return to the station late. This just means a gap at the TTA.

At Imagination, it's a bigger problem, because the turntable was designed with the idea that the vehicles would always be departing the station in their perfect chain. They didn't, and gaps form, and the vehicles end up stuck between two shows or half a train in one show and half in another.

Simple, easy, that's what was wrong with it.

Oh - also the reverse. Trains would arrive early and push on the trains locked into the unload station. It would cause the whole set to bow outward and occasionally jump the track.
Click to expand...
Part of what I loved about the original ride was the cleverness of the ride system. I mean seeing the cars split up, speed up, and then turn to face Dreamfinder for his scene. Intellectually I know that a simulator system like Dinosaur is more complicated, but it's not as impressive somehow. There's something fun about a system that does something amazing but in a seemingly low-tech way--like a cuckoo clock.
 
T

theadmiral459

Member
All this talk about the ride system anyone notice at the end of the current ride after the last scene and the cars turn forward to drop you off look over to the ride side there you will see another part of the track thats not being used anyone know how track there is and where does it go?

John
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
theadmiral459 said:
All this talk about the ride system anyone notice at the end of the current ride after the last scene and the cars turn forward to drop you off look over to the ride side there you will see another part of the track thats not being used anyone know how track there is and where does it go?

John
Click to expand...
That IS interesting.... if it`s right before unload its in the right place to be the old track spur. If it`s just coming out of the final bend before the unload straight it`s the maintainence spur.

Regarding the old layout and ride system issues; the original system had the cars rotate 90 degrees to the right (to face the rotating Flight to Imagination scenes) and physically lock onto the front of the rotating set (there wasn`t a turntable as such, more a rotating ring) - it was this locking onto that didn`t always work as the cars wouldn`t line up perfectly. With the redesigned system from `99 it seems now the cars could just turn 90 degrees and travel at the same pace as a rotating set without physically touching it.

Assuming this is what could be ressurected.... but I have to say that`d be a large undertaking. Especially in todays corporate climate.
 
blakesse06

blakesse06

New Member
MythBuster said:
Let me clarify this first, the part about constant breakdowns, 99% of the time it isn't a ride problem because of mechanical breakdown, it does happen but not too often. Usually, problems are induced by guests or operators, guests standing up when they aren't supposed to, or not getting on and off vehicles fast enough, and then operators trying to comopensate for that, and slow everything down or stop it. and vehicles cascade or throw the timing off.

Have you ever seen that commercial about Visa? Where everything works like a well-oiled machine, everything is flowing smoothly like the garden supply or the cafeteria, then there is one person who makes everyone else stop, and clogs things up, then it goes again? You do that enough times and it gets things confused or clogged up and then they have to reset everything again and start over.

So if you are constantly slowing or stopping the ride and then restarting, then it will eventually have problems. If the rides were operated like they were designed, then there wouldn't be as many problems.
Click to expand...


True but in this case the turntable system that was in use back then worked off of an A.R. cabnet like the ones uesd to control the show effects/anamation I guess this was the only way to sync the cars with the turntable because companys like allen bradly ect. did not have the technolgy at the time. they had constant prolbems with the turntable system
if the trains werent in the right spot when the ride was first brought up after being powered up it would send one into the wall or cause outher issues some times bringing the ride down for days at a time while it was being repaired and thats one of the resons its gone now ,but with todays technolgy this could be done very easy if they wanted to bring the system back though i doubt that it will ever happen it would be cool if they did
out of all the things disney has changed/removed I miss this ride the most:cry:
 
MythBuster

MythBuster

Active Member
blakesse06 said:
True but in this case the turntable system that was in use back then worked off of an A.R. cabnet like the ones uesd to control the show effects/anamation I guess this was the only way to sync the cars with the turntable because companys like allen bradly ect. did not have the technolgy at the time. they had constant prolbems with the turntable system
if the trains werent in the right spot when the ride was first brought up after being powered up it would send one into the wall or cause outher issues some times bringing the ride down for days at a time while it was being repaired and thats one of the resons its gone now ,but with todays technolgy this could be done very easy if they wanted to bring the system back though i doubt that it will ever happen it would be cool if they did
out of all the things disney has changed/removed I miss this ride the most:cry:
Click to expand...

It didn't work off a AR cabinet, that was for the show. It worked off a RDC, in fact, RDC #4 controlled the turntable entrance area. And it worked fine. Maintenance could run the ride all night with no problems. So the actual ride design and equipment would work as designed.

Then you throw in Ride Operators, some who were not experienced, and really didn't know how to properly run the ride. Then you add guests, and that creates many more problems.

I don't know how many people know this, but each ride operator had a handpack which could slow the ride or stop the ride instead using the operator console. So sometimes operators would slow the ride to help someone, then return to normal speed, then someone would stop it and sometimes operators would try to slow the ride and others would return to normal speed at the same time and sometimes the computers got overloaded and froze up.

The same thing happens at Kali River Rapids, they are always slowing down and speeding up the turntable and that usually causes problems or getting a raft stuck on the handicap gate.

So it is usually the way the ride is operated, not the ride itself.
 
Rob562

Rob562

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
That IS interesting.... if it`s right before unload its in the right place to be the old track spur. If it`s just coming out of the final bend before the unload straight it`s the maintainence spur.
Click to expand...

I'm sure he's talking about the Maintenance spur. I doubt they'd leave old, unused track sitting in there.

-Rob
 
WDWFigment

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
Assuming this is what could be ressurected.... but I have to say that`d be a large undertaking. Especially in todays corporate climate.
Click to expand...


From all of this discussion, it sounds like a more stable ride system is at least possible, So essentially the hurdling point for getting the original JII back is egos and money. I really wish the imagineers would just swallow their pride and admit they screwed up with the first ride overhaul. It doesn't even have to be exactly the same ride, just very similar. Unless they can actually improve upon that. :rolleyes:
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Speaking of JII props.... Jeff Lange has a new Imagaination DVD available. There`s quite a lot of photo coverage of the props how they used to be and how/where they are today.

Pssst... also some vid of The original Imageworks how it is today too....

http://www.jefflangedvd.com/
 
WDWFigment

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
Speaking of JII props.... Jeff Lange has a new Imagaination DVD available. There`s quite a lot of photo coverage of the props how they used to be and how/where they are today.

Pssst... also some vid of The original Imageworks how it is today too....

http://www.jefflangedvd.com/
Click to expand...

Marni, as far as ride-through footage goes, would you say this is worth getting? I already have your tribute videos, but there are some points where it gets too dark to tell what's going on, I notice one of the testimonials on the Jeff Lange site states that the color and video quality is really good... what would you say about that? I just don't want to drop $30 on this if I don't really need to do so.
 

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