Imagination Track Layout

[EPCOT Explorer]

It`s technically possible to use all the old pit, but the merch area needs to be somewhere - and can you see marketing letting it go upstairs or be the small size of the original? Of course if the What If? Labs remained downstairs but the Imageworks was a separate entity upstairs...

I guess I`d love to write a book but I`d never get it finished. I barely have time to edit as much as I used to these days.

That's a shame to both things LOL...I would love to read a book by you and I would love to go back into the upstairs of JII...:lol:

 

[EpcotServo]

The way I see it, TDL's wireless-track (UOE-style) ride system would be the best use of the space. Since it'd be trackless, methinks the "Flight to Imagination" would be easier if you could redo the rotating sets. I'm sure WDI could pull-off some kind of system over the remants of the old system. They did manage to save the Submarines after all.

 

[PaisleyMF]

It can be interesting to see Disney try something as amazing as the JII. Now with the newer technology available (Digital HD Projection, Moving Lights, LED, Smaller Sound systems and so on) plus all that can be done in rigging for shows (after all Some shows in Broadway have amazing flying riggs)... Could Disney learn one or two things from Cirque Du Soleil?

 

[Rob562]

It`s technically possible to use all the old pit, but the merch area needs to be somewhere - and can you see marketing letting it go upstairs or be the small size of the original? Of course if the What If? Labs remained downstairs but the Imageworks was a separate entity upstairs...

What I could see them doing would be to keep the merch area downstairs, restore most of the original track, but chop off what used to be the unload, load and part of the pre-show. If you look at the 1983 diagram, find the word "Flying" (from the screens with all the Figments) and draw a straight line down to the word "Preshow". That straight line would be where the load and unload platforms would be.

That would give you a lot more show space for WDI to play with, and it would also dump the exiting Guests right into the merchandise area, which would be where the 1983 unload and load platforms were located (which I believe is about where the current merchandise area is now). It would also leave the space between "Load" and "Preshow" in that diagram for the queue.


-Rob

 

[The Oggmonster]

"Track Course B" leads to the vehicle storage track. It leaves the track at that point (after the Corrosive test for those who don't know the layout enough), goes under the handling turns, and joins the track in the darkness between non-ABS and with-ABS brake tests. Sometimes you can see an empty vehicle on your left as you approach the with-ABS brake test, waiting to be added onto the track. This track spur is intended only for fully operational vehicles that can be called into service at any time.

Test Track also has a separate maintenance bay track. It leaves the track by the seatbelt check (you can see it on your left), circles behind the unload platform (and over the on-ride photo area and some of the post-show), and re-joins the track at the far end of the loading platform.
From the maintenance bay, vehicles can also be wheeled outside and over to an external garage where they can have more-involved work done on them. (You can see this garage if you look down and to your right *immediately* before you re-enter the building after the high-speed loop)

-Rob

Ok I figured that what it leads you too. And I forgot about the beginning with the separate maintenance bay track next to the seatbelt check. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[montyz81]

Does anyone have video of the old show? It has been so long, I don't even remember it. I first experienced it in March of 1983. Another question I have is why didn't they put an addition onto the building somewhere? Why did they have to shorten the track?

IMO if you think of the amount of custom fabrication that goes on in any one of the Disney parks, one would have to believe that they could build anything and make it look like part of the original building without having to cut into an existing ride. This to me is just another example of the extent of the cheapening that happened at the Parks in the 90's. Thank god Eisner is gone now(I thought he was a Walt protege). The cost cutting is obvious to me now on Mission Space, Imagination, and Test Track. Test Track is the one that really kills me. I am car buff, which makes me floored that they got rid of WOM. I love Test Track, but they could have somehow kept the original WOM and created a Test Track like ride somewhere else, maybe. IMO, there wasn't nearly as much imagineering that went into Test Track as did the original WOM. Sorry, I am ranting. I guess I just really miss the original Epcot Center! Oh well, hopefully some of the originals will make their way back over the next 10 -15 years. Sometimes what is old ends up being whats new and exciting!

 

[wdwfan4eva]

So that we may get our almost entire original JII back.......

I say they replace the entrance of HISTA with the JII Merchandise Shop!!! :lol:

:lookaroun

 

[Empress Room]

As Lee said, the rotating set will never turn again (it wasn`t a turntable as such, more a set of circular rings joining at the hub like a bicycle wheel, with the show scenes suspended between) - and I wouldn`t hope for all the original track to ever be reinstated.

Let's face it, if Disney can dump one BILLION dollars into the total makeover of DCA and create/recreate what should have been built there in the first place, anything is possible, and the rebuilding of the turntable and reuse of the original track layout is at least theoretically possible. Clearly, the technological advances made in the last 26 years makes it conceivable.

It all comes down to money...the investment by Disney of $$ and the return on its investment. If those in charge believe that rebuilding Imagination (including the turntable) will result in more guests/greater spending per guest at Epcot, then it will happen, as simple as that. If, on the other hand, Disney determines that such an investment would only result in a marginal increase in guest satisfaction and spending, my guess is that only a modified makeover (or no makeover at all) will take place.

It does seem somewhat petty and shortsighted to underutilize a pavilion like Imagination, from the intricate and groundbreaking effects of the complete ride itself, to the unused upstairs. One would think that restoring pavilions to "wow" experiences would ultimately result in more guests spending more money.

 

[aladdin2007]

But is Kodak willing to foot another redo bill again? I mean with the economy and all are they still going to be able to put anything into this, I dont know their current stance or anything as a company but just wondering. Or are they pulling out come 2009 and Disney will pay the next redo? Or both will pay some? Wouldnt it be be great if both poured a whopping amount of money into it together and brought back some of the original magic and imagination again.
Those track layouts are fantastic, its just inbelievable to me what a ruthless massacre job they did when you compare them.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

But is Kodak willing to foot another redo bill again? I mean with the economy and all are they still going to be able to put anything into this, I dont know their current stance or anything as a company but just wondering. Or are they pulling out come 2009 and Disney will pay the next redo? Or both will pay some? Wouldnt it be be great if both poured a whopping amount of money into it together and brought back some of the original magic and imagination again.
Those track layouts are fantastic, its just unbelievable to me what a ruthless massacre job they did when you compare them.

No kidding! I had no idea that there was so much additional space there (Thanks for the layouts, Martin!). Hopefully, we'll see at least some of that area reclaimed. If there is one thing a refurb of JII has going for it, its that Disney knows the pressure is on. They know they can't afford to screw it up like they did the first time; the fan base would go ballisitc. I expect Disney will go all out on this, and we'll see quite a bit of capital put into this next version.

 

[marni1971]

Does anyone have video of the old show? It has been so long, I don't even remember it. I first experienced it in March of 1983. Another question I have is why didn't they put an addition onto the building somewhere? Why did they have to shorten the track?

MouseBits has my full multi angle video extravaganza of the original ride, how it was designed and built, and what was done to it. I`m sure YouTube and the usual haunts can also help.

You were one of the first to ride it back in `83! I wish I`d have been there.

For your second question, you answered it. Money. Cost cutting. The dark ages of Eisner and Pressler in the late 90`s. The original ride system and rotating show scenes were troublesome and were never fully fixed - the shorter layout elimiated these instead of solving the problems. Try a thread search where we discussed this in detail :wave:

As for version 4, I don`t think I`ll be dissappointed. The budget has grown and grown - the project has even been deffered a few times to allow more money in the kitty.

 

[hokielutz]

HIGHLY unlikely. The turntable is totally screwed up, as I hear it.

I am sure the current turntable and mechanism is not worth its weight in gold at this point in time.

Of course... as unlikely as it is... it is always possible to completely destroy that area, and rebuild a re-engineered turn-table from the ground up. And not use reconstructed existing infrastructure of the table. Its possible to improve upon the 1980 design with composite materials, technology, and architecture from today, but highly unlikely.

 

[hokielutz]

MouseBits has my full multi angle video extravaganza of the original ride, how it was designed and built, and what was done to it. I`m sure YouTube and the usual haunts can also help.

You were one of the first to ride it back in `83! I wish I`d have been there.

For your second question, you answered it. Money. Cost cutting. The dark ages of Eisner and Pressler in the late 90`s. The original ride system and rotating show scenes were troublesome and were never fully fixed - the shorter layout elimiated these instead of solving the problems. Try a thread search where we discussed this in detail :wave:

As for version 4, I don`t think I`ll be dissappointed. The budget has grown and grown - the project has even been deffered a few times to allow more money in the kitty.

And THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR VIDEOS of the original ride. It was a complete blast to see again the great wonders of what the imagination can come up with in practice vs. the cheap refurb that is was replaced with. I really think Walt would have been proud of the original Imagination attraction and would have done what was necessary to properly fix the issues that plagued it rather than cheaply overhaul it.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

MouseBits has my full multi angle video extravaganza of the original ride, how it was designed and built, and what was done to it. I`m sure YouTube and the usual haunts can also help.

Ah, yes, thank you for your videos! I especially enjoyed the one on SSE 86 and the Communicore/Innoventions area. Fascinating stuff! In my opinion, another travesty of a refurb.

For your second question, you answered it. Money. Cost cutting. The dark ages of Eisner and Pressler in the late 90`s. The original ride system and rotating show scenes were troublesome and were never fully fixed - the shorter layout elimiated these instead of solving the problems. Try a thread search where we discussed this in detail :wave:

Ah! But all was not lost! For far across the land, fom the US to the UK, casual observers and obsessive fanatics continued the quest for change. With the keyboards of their computers, they debated ideas, and shared new discoveries with all who would listen! :lookaroun

:lol:

Wow, do I miss the Irons narration...

 

[Rob562]

Ah! But all was not lost! For far across the land, fom the US to the UK, casual observers and obsessive fanatics continued the quest for change. With the keyboards of their computers, they debated ideas, and shared new discoveries with all who would listen!

Finally, from the depths of the Eisner Era, came the Age of Enlightenment: The Iger-sance....

-Rob

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Ah, yes, thank you for your videos! I especially enjoyed the one on SSE 86 and the Communicore/Innoventions area. Fascinating stuff! In my opinion, another travesty of a refurb.




Ah! But all was not lost! For far across the land, fom the US to the UK, casual observers and obsessive fanatics continued the quest for change. With the keyboards of their computers, they debated ideas, and shared new discoveries with all who would listen! :lookaroun

:lol:

Wow, do I miss the Irons narration...

Finally, from the depths of the Eisner Era, came the Age of Enlightenment: The Iger-sance....

-Rob

Stop your electronic babble.
:lol:

 

[HMF]

Finally, from the depths of the Eisner Era, came the Age of Enlightenment: The Iger-sance....

-Rob

I am still not sure about Iger yet. He still seems to be using Eisners playbook.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

At least the wand is down...

 

[olmec26]

All three of you win the thread...haha!

God, I miss Irons...