mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
You do realize families have kids over 8 who might not like to ride all-ages dark rides all day long right? They might want to alternate after each ride? Because as a teen, I count 5 rides I absolutely wanted to ride - the Mountains, POTC and HM when I went for the first time last month.
They just moved Dumbo, so who's to say PPF, IASW and Teacups couldn't be shifted around (one of them is just a really nice flat ride that can easily be moved somewhere else)
I have Asperger's too, so logic is key to me. IASW makes sense in World Showcase because it gives little kids something to do there (it's mainly a place for adults to get drunk at this point), unlike the Frozen overlay it could thematically fit, world peace has nothing to do with dragons, magic, flying elephants or talking bears, and Fantasyland needs an actual expansion that expands capacity significantly (SDMT and Mermaid are primarily making up for lost capacity due to 20K closure - it's a boost, but most of the capacity increase is due to wider walkways)
You do realize there's only 1 actual thrill ride in Magic Kingdom? Big Thunder and Splash are honestly a preschooler's first big coaster/log flume - they're fun, but nothing too scary. SDMT and Barnstormer are kiddie coasters. 95% of the park is for kids under 8 - look at the attraction lineup.
And again, I mention MK hasn't added an E-ticket in 22 years. I'm not expecting 20-30 E tickets. But 3-5 using the expansion space wouldn't be a lot to ask for. The rest of the attractions could be B, C and D tickets that everyone can relax on. Mermaid is a C. Buzz and Pooh are low-budget replacements. Stitch and Laugh Floor are low budget. SDMT is a solid D, but no E. Moreso, they haven't added a non-kid centric attraction since Alien Encounter and Timekeeper.
You're never going to stop the "go, go, go" mentality that people have developed when going to theme parks. In this economy, it's foolish to think everyone can take their time and ride stuff leisurely - people are trying to get the most out of their money. No reason to fault people for that. Most people only go to WDW once in a lifetime, so they have to make sure to do/see most everything. It's always the annual pass holders who say people should take it easy. But would you really take it easy if you knew you were never going to Disney World ever again? Would you say "I can do Jungle Cruise next time" or "Test Track can wait" if you knew you had one shot at going to the most magical place on Earth and then you'd never see it again?
As far as E tickets go, Disneyland has or has room for:
POTC
HM
Indiana Jones Adventure
Jungle Cruise
Space Mountain
Star Tours
Future Tomorrowland E-ticket (if it happens in the near-future) at Innoventions
Matterhorn
IASW (arguably)
Possibly an E-ticket at Big Thunder Ranch/Festival of Fools
Big Thunder Mountain
Splash Mountain
To add insult to injury, DCA's right across the way and has 5 more E-tickets (Soarin', Grizzly River Run, California Screamin', ToT, RSR) on top of those current 10 and potential 2. If those two new ones are built at Disneyland and the Monsters Inc coaster opens at DCA, you could potentially ride 18 E tickets in a single day (off-season or peak season if you use FastPasses, stay all day, keep hydrated, take small breaks once in a while, etc) along with some mid-level attractions in between (Fantasyland dark rides, Buzz, Roger Rabbit, TSMM, Mermaid, Goofy's Sky School, maybe a favorite show after lunch, with Fantasmic or World of Color to cap off the day)
15 E-tickets currently n a little more than MK's space (150 acres or so) vs 7 E tickets at MK (the three Mountains, POTC, HM, JC, IASW).
Just because a park is family-friendly doesn't mean they can't have something for everyone.
What about a family with a 2 year old, 5 year old, 8 year old and 17 year old. The 2 and 5 year olds will probably have a lot of fun on most of the attractions at MK (Space Mountain being the only thing the 5 year old can't do... the coasters, Speedway, Splash and Stitch being the things the 2 yr old can't do). The 8 year old will enjoy MK, but might want something a wee bit more thrilling (they may prefer re-riding Big Thunder or Space to Pooh or Dumbo).
But the 17 year old (especially if they're not a hardcore Disney fan) is going to be relatively bored out of their mind. They'll love the three Mountains and have fun on POTC and HM, maybe even laugh at a couple of the bad jokes on Jungle Cruise... but other than that, what do they do? Most of Fantasyland is for the under 7 set (with preschoolers likely to get the most enjoyment out of it) - young children aren't the only ones who love the Disney classics. Plenty of adults would love to see Bald Mountain from Fantasia, a place for the Disney villains, something Nightmare Before Christmas related, etc. Fantasy isn't just a toddler thing (LOTR, HP, Narnia, Game of Thrones, HTTYD, Legend of Zelda, Greek mythology, etc) -
Frontierland has thrills, but nothing for little kids to do (you can only watch Country Bears and ride the Riverboat so many times). More importantly, there's a huge bottleneck that gets insanely backed up during peak season due to two E tickets being backed into a corner. Expanding past Big Thunder would fix that and allow for Western River Expedition to finally come into frutation.
Adventureland has two classics, but it could use something new (Fire Mountain would have been perfect) to draw guests to the left - Fantasyland and Tomorrowland get barraged way too much while you could easily do Jungle Cruise, POTC, Big Thunder, Splash, HM, and a show or two before lunch on even a busy day. During off-season, you could probably do everything in Frontierland, Adventureland and Liberty Square without much of a line. Pretty sure Adventureland hasn't seen anything truly new since 1973 (as far as new D/E tickets go)
Liberty Square is a nice mini-land, but a Sleepy Hollow attraction could round out the area pretty well and give a lesser known Disney film a chance to shine in the spotlight.
Tomorrowland has one truly major attraction. Buzz is pretty secondary unless you have kids. Disneyland has Star Tours along with Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage. Even Autopia seems pretty major compared to our Speedway, which is a complete and utter eyesore. Don't care how nostalgic anyone is for it - it doesn't fit Tomorrowland or Fantasyland and greatly intrudes on the theming of both. Every other section of the park has seamless transitions. Tomorrowland/Fantasyland? Awful lol.
Speedway and Stitch just need to close... really, they do. Laugh Floor is something that easily could move to DHS as a quick fix when they're doing Star Wars Land. Buzz should close since DHS needs TSMM more than MK needs Buzz - no reason Toy Story should have two separate shoot 'em up dark rides in two separate parks. Theme it to Big Hero 6 or Guardians of the Galaxy - Marvel might cause troubles with GotG, but BH6 isn't at Universal so I could see them using it as long as the Marvel branding isn't apparent.
Beyond the Speedway, there's a huge chunk of land (Space Mountain's backstage areas could easily be hidden, no worries) for 3-4 more attractions which would bring MK's Tomorrowland up to par with DL's.
Would an E-ticket for each major land and an E ticket for a new land be a lot to ask? 5 isn't that many when you consider DL could fit 12/13 E tickets in a significantly lesser amount of space.
How's it not fair to compare Disneyland to MK? It's 50 acres smaller and still has nearly twice as many attractions. (85 acres vs. 133 acres) I'm not comparing MK to DisneySea or Epcot. I'm comparing it to its sister park which happens to be superior in terms of quality and quantity of attractions.
While I wouldn't expect MK to have more than Disneyland yet since it's 16 years behind, the fact that MK went 20 years without adding anything significant is telling. In those 20 years, MK could have lessened the gap between it and DL (especially since DL has taken a break since Indy for the most part). But they just replaced things rather than add something completely brand new. I don't see how it's unfair to compare DL and MK when they're both the same style park and one of them is significantly bigger than the other (by almost 50 acres of guest space and likely 35-45 acres of potential expansion space beyond the berm)
IASW doesn't fit with fairy tales. Winnie the Pooh, Cinderella and Peter Pan have nothing to do with world peace - nothing. World Showcase makes a lot more sense than Fantasyland. Yes, it's been in a castle park for years, but that doesn't mean it absolutely has to be in the Magic Kingdom. WDW has all that space for a reason. If IASW is the only thing preventing TDO from developing current backstage areas into expansion space and in turn, making new backstage areas farther back beyond the berm, I'd say relocate it. WS could use its own classic dark ride (Maelstrom isn't enough) and Epcot could get a new addition without having to replace anything (just use the old Odyssey building/area or one of the expansion pads). Mermaid and BoG's backstage areas could easily be hidden just like they've done with the Fantasyland dark rides, Liberty Square, Adventureland, Frontierland, etc. Just put a show building in front of Mermaid and BoG's backstage areas - have it share the same backstage space as those two. Maximizing space is something TDO should do more of since they have a blessing none of the other Disney resorts have.
And TDO doesn't know something we don't. They simply choose to ignore that new D tickets and E tickets are how you bring in guests rather than promotional offers. Universal has been doing most everything right lately aside from petty grievances of mine (FJ showbuilding, Gringotts extended queue, Transformers' lack of a facade, KidZone, Fear Factor, front area of Toon Lagoon, lack of a ride in LC, lack of a headliner in Seuss, etc). Why is it unfair to compare to two theme park resorts? They're theme parks. But TDO has shown they do not really know what they're doing as far as parks go. Hotels and shopping are just fine of course
Universal is the place adding new and exciting adventures - the kind Disney used to do regularly back in the mid 80s to mid 90s. I'm not trying to be critical on WDW but it's hard not to when they have shown a utter lack of competence in terms of expanding the park and satisfying all guests - not just a select few demographics (little kids, Mommy bloggers, Lifestylers)
While I agree that MK should be primarily family-friendly, one or two more thrill rides (Disneyland has 2 - why can't MK have 3 with the amount of space available) isn't going to hurt, especially when you consider only 5 rides at MK have a major height requirement. 2 have small ones (32" and 35") while the other 27 are all-ages in addition to M&Gs, shows, parades, etc. 5 out of 34 is a little more than 1/7 of the park... and Stitch and SDMT aren't even that restrictive/scary. Plus most 5 yr olds are about 40" so they could essentially do everything at MK currently except Space Mountain.
Bald Mountain, Fire Mountain, a Frozen trackless dark ride, Western River Expedition, Discovery Bay (3 attractions), revamped Tomorrowland (adds 2-3 attractions beyond berm along with replacements for Speedway, Laugh Floor, Buzz and Stitch)... not really that much to ask for. Especially when 6 of those could be all ages (Frozen dark ride, WRE, 2 of the Discovery Bay attractions, 2 of the new Tomorrowland attractions). Only Bald Mountain and Fire Mountain would be true-blue thrill rides (I would say 48" and 52") along with an E-ticket in Tomorrowland (42"-48" range)
33 all-ages attractions
11 rides with height requirements
75% of the park would still be completely family friendly while 25% would be thrilling attractions for teens/adults/adventurous kids. Not really that bad of a balance.
- Sugar Rush Racers (Speedway replacement - 32" for Fantasyland side, 42" for Hero's Duty side)
- Space Mountain - 44"
- New time travel E ticket - 48" (2 new all-ages attractions added alongside it)
- Fire Mountain - 52" (all of Adventureland nearby)
- Splash Mountain - 40"
- Big Thunder Mountain - 40"
- Bald Mountain - 48" (all of Fantasyland nearby)
- Discovery Bay E-ticket - 42" (WRE and a D ticket family dark ride in Discovery Bay would be nearby)
- SDMT - 38"
- Barnstormer - 35" (maybe rethemed as Caterpillar)
- GotG replacement for Stitch - 40"
The park is ridiculously shifted towards preschoolers as is. Why would a few thrill rides completely shift the paradigm and ruin MK for families? It's a smart business move because little kids will want to go back and ride what they weren't tall enough to do last time. Hence, you've got families trying to book two or three trips rather than just one. It also balances out crowds if you have thrill rides throughout the park. Everyone rushes to do Space, Splash and Big Thunder. But if there was Fire Mountain, Bald Mountain, the time travel E ticket, a new Discovery Bay E ticket and the Sugar Rush replacement for the Speedway, you spread out the current crowds and ease tension on the older attractions that might need upgrades/TLC.
Plus, Disney tends to lose families once all or most of their kids are past the age of 7/8. Don't see families with 10, 14, and 17 yr olds walking around MK too often. 4-5 thrill rides and a few more large scale family dark rides (Frozen trackless dark ride, WRE, one in Discovery Bay and one in Tomorrowland that isn't a replacement of Buzz)... MK would be a balanced experience.
by family dark rides, I mean Spaceship Earth, POTC, HM, Horizons, GMR, Journey into Imagination, Adventures Through Inner Space, stuff that may appeal to kids, but isn't explicitly geared toward the younger set like the latest additions have been. Even the most recent thrill rides have been kid centric (Radiator Springs Racers and SDMT). Everest is the last resort-wide addition that aimed at teens/adults... it was 8 years ago and the main feature is broken.
I don't hate families or the all-ages nature of MK, but the park could definitely use a little more variety. Similar to how Universal could use some more family rides, Disney could use some more thrill rides... not unthemed Six Flags thrill machines, mind you. But attractions where the story couldn't be told using an Omnimover. Where KUKA arms and high speed launches are necessary to bring the adventure to life. Certain stories wouldn't work with a slow moving ride system.
75% family, 25% thrill would be about perfect since you wouldn't alienate any particular demo, the park could still maintain its family-friendly reputation, and the thrill rides could bring new sorts of stories/ride systems into MK's arsenals.
