IASW Introducing Dolls in Wheelchairs

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
One member of a class of people does not speak for the entire class of people.
Nor am I saying that it does. i was providing one example, but this is the prevailing opinion I’ve heard from the community in general - from those actually using wheelchairs - that they do not like the term “wheelchair bound.”

You could listen to the community, or not. Up to you. 🤷‍♀️
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Nor am I saying that it does. i was providing one example, but this is the prevailing opinion I’ve heard from the community in general - from those actually using wheelchairs - that they do not like the term “wheelchair bound.”

You could listen to the community, or not. Up to you. 🤷‍♀️
Communities are not monolithic. I'm sick of "you can't say X, you have to say Y." Or "you have to say X, but only if you capitalize it." Or "you can't say Z Person, you have to say Person Experiencing Z-ness." Or "I know that five years ago we bullied you into saying X but we rethought it and X is offensive now."

Intent matters. If someone says something in good faith, I'm not going to hold them to some impossible standard that they have to keep up-to-date on a glossary of terms that serves no purpose beyond keeping adjunct faculty, grad students, and tumblristas occupied Online.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
Communities are not monolithic. I'm sick of "you can't say X, you have to say Y." Or "you have to say X, but only if you capitalize it." Or "you can't say Z Person, you have to say Person Experiencing Z-ness." Or "I know that five years ago we bullied you into saying X but we rethought it and X is offensive now."

Intent matters. If someone says something in good faith, I'm not going to hold them to some impossible standard that they have to keep up-to-date on a glossary of terms that serves no purpose beyond keeping adjunct faculty, grad students, and tumblristas occupied Online.
I wasn’t holding anyone to an impossible standard. I was asking someone to “please reconsider” the usage.

And no, communities aren’t a monolith which is why I said when speaking with specific individuals, it’s best to ask preferences and not assume.

I approached this from a place of good faith, nothing more. Obviously, you’re not taking it that way, which I can’t control. I hope you have a good night.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Communities are not monolithic. I'm sick of "you can't say X, you have to say Y." Or "you have to say X, but only if you capitalize it." Or "you can't say Z Person, you have to say Person Experiencing Z-ness." Or "I know that five years ago we bullied you into saying X but we rethought it and X is offensive now."

Intent matters. If someone says something in good faith, I'm not going to hold them to some impossible standard that they have to keep up-to-date on a glossary of terms that serves no purpose beyond keeping adjunct faculty, grad students, and tumblristas occupied Online.
I haven’t seen one sign of bullying anywhere. @Angel Ariel has been respectful this entire time.

One can educate themselves on evolving, more inclusive terms for specific groups and still recognize that not everyone from said groups will feel the same way. So, act accordingly. No reason to have such a negative view of this.
 

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
Communities are not monolithic. I'm sick of "you can't say X, you have to say Y." Or "you have to say X, but only if you capitalize it." Or "you can't say Z Person, you have to say Person Experiencing Z-ness." Or "I know that five years ago we bullied you into saying X but we rethought it and X is offensive now."

Intent matters. If someone says something in good faith, I'm not going to hold them to some impossible standard that they have to keep up-to-date on a glossary of terms that serves no purpose beyond keeping adjunct faculty, grad students, and tumblristas occupied Online.
We have had our disagreements in this discussion, but you are right on this…as a disabled person, if something is said out of ignorance rather than maliciousness, I’m NEVER going to hold that against them. I’m never ashamed to discuss my disease…I have an MS sticker on the back of my scooter so when they see a thin, relatively healthy looking guy riding one, it kind of shuts up the skeptics. I’ve overheard snide comments years ago about that at WDW…needless to say, I gave them a NJ education. Buy you’re right…it’s not WHAT you say, it’s HOW you say it.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
We have had our disagreements in this discussion, but you are right on this…as a disabled person, if something is said out of ignorance rather than maliciousness, I’m NEVER going to hold that against them. I’m never ashamed to discuss my disease…I have an MS sticker on the back of my scooter so when they see a thin, relatively healthy looking guy riding one, it kind of shuts up the skeptics. I’ve overheard snide comments years ago about that at WDW…needless to say, I gave them a NJ education. Buy you’re right…it’s not WHAT you say, it’s HOW you say it.
And I would agree with all of this as well.

Unfortunately we will likely always hear skeptics and snide comments, as the cause of DD’s disabilities is quite rare.

I do apologize if at any point I came across as speaking for you specifically, as that was certainly never my intent (nor my intent for this conversation to go there at all).
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
But that’s the point, the article complained about a particular terminology but didn’t offer alternatives that would be acceptable (unless I missed it in the article). That strikes me as a poor way to evoke change.
That’s on me - I had to leave shortly when I posted that and was picking an article quickly. A little googling shows many similar discussions, many of which do have alternatives. The wheelchair user terminology is what the site of the article I posted uses in their “about” description (as well as what I’ve heard from people directly in the advocacy work I do).

But the point of listening to individuals is also important, as was pointed out, each individual will have their own preferences.
 

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
And I would agree with all of this as well.

Unfortunately we will likely always hear skeptics and snide comments, as the cause of DD’s disabilities is quite rare.

I do apologize if at any point I came across as speaking for you specifically, as that was certainly never my intent (nor my intent for this conversation to go there at all).
No, ABSOLUTELY NOT!! We are FINE!!
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Communities are not monolithic. I'm sick of "you can't say X, you have to say Y." Or "you have to say X, but only if you capitalize it." Or "you can't say Z Person, you have to say Person Experiencing Z-ness." Or "I know that five years ago we bullied you into saying X but we rethought it and X is offensive now."

Intent matters. If someone says something in good faith, I'm not going to hold them to some impossible standard that they have to keep up-to-date on a glossary of terms that serves no purpose beyond keeping adjunct faculty, grad students, and tumblristas occupied Online.
More specific to this topic, I think the term “wheelchair bound” is a medically derived one indicating someone who is dependent on a wheelchair for mobility. As opposed to a “wheelchair user” or such that would more likely mean someone who can walk (though perhaps with a cane or walker) but uses a wheelchair at times. Those kinds of clarifications can be important and the nuance might be lost when trying to find terms that are not viewed as offensive.

I think that’s why intent matters and what a person is saying by using a particular term.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I love it's a small world. I like the song. I like the aesthetics (of the World's Fair/Disneyland original, at least). And I like the classic Walt Disney happy vibe it provides.

It's classic Disneyland, in the finest sense of the phrase.

I think adding a couple dolls in wheelchairs is a nice, subtle change. It's cute. And they did this change with class and taste this time.

That said, I am not so naive to think that it's a small world is some sort of key barometer of the human condition or needs to be saddled with socio-political statements. It exists mainly to add hefty ride capacity to any park it's in, and also to shill for the sponsor. Originally Pepsi-Cola, but later Bank of America or Mattel or Sylvania. It's a cute ride that exists for financial reasons.

Just say Pepsi, Please!

8138343369f5e31c15ccc3e141d6dd53.jpg
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I thought it was actually created for UNICEF, but Pepsi sponsored it...

Pepsi asked Disney to build them a World's Fair pavilion, and Pepsi paid for it and put their name all over it. Joan Crawford slapped UNICEF on the billing to make it all seem charitable. UNICEF didn't pay a dime for any of it and had no creative input, but the UN staff was happy to take some charity checks from Pepsi-Cola. The US Committee for UNICEF did set up a little display near the exit however, and they sold their UNICEF Christmas stamps there. But it was really all Pepsi, all the time.

Ms. Crawford was not a stupid woman. :cool:

At the World's Fair it actually had a title that was perhaps one of the longest in Disney attraction history, even outdoing today's young Imagineers who slap colons and marketing junk onto every title.

PEPSI-COLA presents Walt Disney's "it's a small world" a salute to UNICEF and all the world's children

Phew! But it's friends just call it Small World.

pepsi-disney-sign.jpg
 
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Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
OK, I thought I read on the Disneyland website and when I saw Marty Sklar speak at both of his book signings that is was created by Walt for the UNICEF organization, and Walt solicited corporate sponsors to defray the costs and Pepsi stepped up to the plate, and to reward them, Walt allowed Pepsi to be sold in Disneyland , but if that's what you're saying, I guess we all stand corrected...thanks for the info!
 
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JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Pepsi asked Disney to build them a World's Fair pavilion, and Pepsi paid for it and put their name all over it. Joan Crawford slapped UNICEF on the billing to make it all seem charitable. UNICEF didn't pay a dime for any of it and had no creative input, but the UN staff was happy to take some charity checks from Pepsi-Cola. The US Committee for UNICEF did set up a little display near the exit however, and they sold their UNICEF Christmas stamps there. But it was really all Pepsi, all the time.

Ms. Crawford was not a stupid woman. :cool:

At the World's Fair it actually had a title that was perhaps one of the longest in Disney attraction history, even outdoing today's young Imagineers who slap colons and marketing junk onto every title.

PEPSI-COLA presents Walt Disney's "it's a small world" a salute to UNICEF and all the world's children

Phew! But it's friends just call it Small World.

pepsi-disney-sign.jpg

OK, I thought I read on the Disneyland website and when I saw Marty Sklar speak at both of his book signings that is was created by Walt for the UNIEF organization, and Walt solicited corporate sponsors to defray the costs and Pepsi stepped up to the plate, and to reward them, Walt allowed Pepsi to be sold in Disneyworld, but if that's what you're saying, I guess we all stand corrected...thanks for the info!
I remember in the early 60's trick or treating with a cardboard bank to collect pennies for UNICEF. Later I think it shifted to dimes but awareness and support was large in those days with ads of food deliveries in starving countries and public appearances by celebrities' with kids that had been helped.
This ride was about the world's children so the organization that was dedicated to helping the world's children would have prominent representation at the WORLD'S FAIR in an exhibit about children
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
OK, I thought I read on the Disneyland website and when I saw Marty Sklar speak at both of his book signings that is was created by Walt for the UNICEF organization, and Walt solicited corporate sponsors to defray the costs and Pepsi stepped up to the plate, and to reward them, Walt allowed Pepsi to be sold in Disneyland , but if that's what you're saying, I guess we all stand corrected...thanks for the info!

Yeah, that's not really how the timeline played out or happened. Also, Pepsi had been sold at Disneyland since opening day on July 17th, 1955. They were the first, and only, sponsor of the Golden Horseshoe Saloon in Frontierland since '55.

By the summer of '63, Pepsi's board had not made a decision on what to do at the World's Fair. There was a rumor that Coca-Cola was going in big, and had been in talks with WDI to do a clone of the Enchanted Tiki Room (Coke had made an inquiry with Disney, but those talks quickly went nowhere). Joan Crawford used her Hollywood connections to get in touch with Walt directly and ask him if it was too late to get him to do Pepsi's pavilion, as it was already well known that Disney was handling Ford and General Electric's big pavilions at the fair. Walt had an idea for a boat ride, and he pitched it to Pepsi over the objections of Marty Sklar and others at WDI who felt that Imagineering was already tapped out by building the three other big shows for the fair. The Pepsi board waffled on the Small World idea, and Joan Crawford put her not-so-ladylike foot down and demanded that Pepsi go with Walt's idea. The rest, is history.

What's funny is that when Coke backed out of a Tiki Room clone, they never got their act or their budgets together for something else. Coca-Cola ended up with a forgettable little pavilion that had an organ and a "Sandwich Garden" snack bar where you could sit and have chicken salad and a Coke. Pepsi-Cola with it's instant hit of Walt's little boat ride won the Cola Wars at the 1964 World's Fair. Mostly thanks to Joan Crawford. 🤣

If Marty Sklar was telling stories late in his life that it was all a work of charity and selfless love for the children of the world and the bureaucrats at the UN, then that's a real shame. None of the corporate pavilions Disney built at the World's Fair were done for free or out of the goodness of anyone's heart, and they were designed with one goal in mind; to sell GE toaster ovens and dishwashers, Ford Galaxie 500's and Mustangs, and millions of gallons of Pepsi-Cola.
 
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