I don't like this CoP rumor. . .

[Woody13]

Losing a classic Disney story (that actually FITS into Tomorrowland) and replacing it with a few thrilling ride vehicles that can be ditched for the next-best thing? Please!

You hit the nail on the head Grizz, except you have it reversed. CoP does not fit into Tomorrowland. There is nothing futuristic about CoP. CoP has outlived its purpose. CoP was designed as a commercial for General Electric to sell the idea of "all electric living" back in the 1960's. It was a really great commercial and it worked well!


There is no way under the sun to "fix" CoP, mainly because it's not broken, but it has outlived its time. Any attempt to update it would simply ruin the attraction. It's just best to retire this 40 year old warhorse. It certainly does not belong in Tomorrowland.

Also, it is unfair to expect that CoP could be expected to live up to its name. The technological progress of the 21st century makes the 1960's look like caveman days! Saving CoP is a mistake.

However, if WDW ever decides to open up a "Geezerland", then CoP would be a perfect fit! However, I don't think that attempting to freeze CoP in amber is time well spent.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Jim Hill has been preaching about these flying suacers for the longest time. They have been for a while now, and he has been pushing the years off every time he mentions them. For some reason, this is his favorite rumor. I take everything he says with a grain of salt. He is a cynical pain in the...well you know...and I don't take what he says as fact until it happens.

 

[KevinPage]

Well, I have to say that I take slight offense to the idea that Jim and the other authors on the site are just throwing stuff into the air until it sticks. I have a behind the scenes view of how Jim and our other authors work and I can say without doubt, that ideas are not being just thrown against a wall until something sticks. To say that would be to demean the hard work done by all our authors. When you deal with an industry that has many ups and downs in the development of a concept, you are bound to have varying levels of accuracy in prediction. Not to mention when someone occasionally throws you false information under false pretenses.

Cory,

I can see how you would take offense, but none was meant. You have to remember the reader's point of view as well. We don't have inside info, but we hear all the crazy and non crazy rumors all the time. So while something that is passed along to an "insider" that may turn out to be hogwash from the beginning or go astray over the years, us the reader can say it's poppycock right from the beginning. Not being "in the know" we can make our own unbiased opinion if we think something is feasible or not. Having inside info could lead you away from your "guts instincts", thereby making you look like there's egg on your face.

Being part of the rumor and speculation business is going to have it's negative side. Any journalist worth their salt gets sucked into the machine and tends to put out "extra" stories when maybe they should "hold off" certain times. It's the nature of the beast, you gotta have some content on a daily basis. I'm sure there's stories that Jim would rather hold off on until he has more rock solid info, but people expect content, so some stuff is gonna get rushed. (or one would tend to assume such).

I did not intend to imply that Jim just says ANYTHING so he can look like a genius if something turns out true. But you gotta take the boo's if you are gonna get the cheers.

 

[tigger248]

I think we all have to remember that while MK is a family park it is a lot tougher to take small kids on CoP then it is to take them on Buzz. Walt always wanted a place where he could play with his daughters...if Walt were a normal adult now I doubt his daughters would have much fun on CoP. I am not saying that I do not love CoP and I would be very sad if it did go the way of some of the other great attraction like ATIS and the Mine Train Ride through Natures Wonderland here at DL. You have to remember that Walt was always looking for the next great thing..would bumper cars be that NO!!!! But if not for loosing those 2 attractions I listed we would not have had Star Tours or Big Thunder.

J

That is why Buzz already has an attraction. For the kids (and parents...). Kids can easily go on CoP, some may get bored, but they can still go on it. How many adults and elderly visiters will really want to go on bumber cars (especially buzz lightyear/alien ones)? In changing everything to only appeal to kids, it's heading farther away from Walt's vision than we'd like to think. My grandmother still very much likes to visit WDW, yet with each visit she finds more and more that she can not ride. Is she less of a visiter than a younger family? I'd hope not. Attractions aimed at specific ages (like small children) don't really belong, imo, because they tend to aim away from Walt's family ideas. Does splash mountain have a target age? No. Jungle Cruise? Nope. Country bears? nada. Would bumber cars? yep. The previous attractions mentioned really have no target age and are enjoyable by (most) all who go on them. One has a height limit, which eliminates a small percentage of guests. Other than that, they are perfect examples of family attractions, as is CoP. Bumper cars would have to have a height limit, eliminating a lot of Buzz fans. It would also appeal to very few adults. Kinda like SGE. Tomorrowland is becoming more and more of an extension of fantasyland.

Please, we can not let CoP turn into bumper cars. CoP must be saved!

 

[tigger248]

I don't buy this... The same decorations were up when I was there (2003).

The same decorations with the little green aliens were up in 2002 too.

Though that same year there was also a giant Stitch balloon on top of AE, which was a sign of things to come...

 

[Jerm]

Please, we can not let CoP turn into bumper cars. CoP must be saved!

I am in no way saying that CoP should leave and I am forsure not saying that it should be bumper car. I am saying that as far as the full family appel goes CoP is not a across the board attraction. Is Space an across the board attraction also no, but if you walk up to the avarage guest at MK more people would be running to Space then to CoP.

For some reason this has turned into be being the person pulling the plug on CoP. I am just starting the facts for why CoP would be a good attraction for for Disney to change out. I think CoP is a great attraction I have all the sound tracks for it I can get and I always go on it atleast 2 times each visit but we (the big Disney geeks) are the only people that will cry if it does leave us.

J

 

[Woody13]

...but we (the big Disney geeks) are the only people that will cry if it does leave us.

Very true and Disney knows this as well.

 

[se8472]

(the big Disney geeks) are the only people that will cry if it does leave us.

I don't know, you might see me cheering

 

[tigger248]

I am in no way saying that CoP should leave and I am forsure not saying that it should be bumper car. I am saying that as far as the full family appel goes CoP is not a across the board attraction. Is Space an across the board attraction also no, but if you walk up to the avarage guest at MK more people would be running to Space then to CoP.

For some reason this has turned into be being the person pulling the plug on CoP. I am just starting the facts for why CoP would be a good attraction for for Disney to change out. I think CoP is a great attraction I have all the sound tracks for it I can get and I always go on it atleast 2 times each visit but we (the big Disney geeks) are the only people that will cry if it does leave us.

J

I see CoP as more across the board than the proposed replacement, bumper cars. But, that's just me. :wave:

 

[General Grizz]

You hit the nail on the head Grizz, except you have it reversed. CoP does not fit into Tomorrowland. There is nothing futuristic about CoP.

In that case, what would be a "futuristic" replacement? Space aliens?

Carousel of Progress is one of the last Disney attractions that is based on foward-looking, inspiration for FUTURE progress. No bumper car attraction can capture this essence of what Walt's forward-thinking stood for.

It's up to you which ones fits into Tomorrowland: "There's a great big, beautiful, tomorrow" or "Strange things are happenin' to me". . .

 

[General Grizz]

. . .but we (the big Disney geeks) are the only people that will cry if it does leave us.

Then let's screw 'em again, by golly. If we molded Walt Disney World around Six Flags, we'd help the thrill fans and only make the big Disney geeks mad.

What's the point of uniqueness, then? Will this mean the "magic" is dead? Or perhaps Disney can stick to originality to impress the common guest and please the fan?

I think a retooled Carousel of Progress can help do that. (I mean, in my years on the Carousel, I've heard applause at the end of every show. Sure, it's a snoozer for some, but I know it can be brought into the 21st century. Keep something for the family. Keep something in the spirit. Keep something for Walt. I think it's a strength of a park to have a great variety of original forms of storytelling. Seeing Hall of Presidents across from Splash Mountain, for example, really shows a care for this. Something Disney should REALLY be proud of. I think the same pertains to Carousel of Progress being located across from Space Mountain).

The current trend cannot continue. . .

 

[General Grizz]

And before I sign out -- from the D-Troops site:

Reasons to Protect
Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress

10. A Disney tradition
Many Magic Kingdom guests (or their family members) first visited Carousel of Progress at the 1964-65 World’s Fair, and its presence at Walt Disney World today makes their visits even more magical. The Carousel of Progress is a gift that families can “pass down” from one generation to the next, and it is therefore one very direct connection that all guests have with Walt Disney and the origins of his theme parks.

9. A true Tomorrowland attraction
In an era in which Tomorrowland looks more like a futuristic Fantasyland, dominated by Stitch and Buzz Lightyear, Carousel of Progress is the only attraction (along with The Timekeeper) that looks to the future. Its view of tomorrow is optimistic, practical, and full of character.

8. It delights, informs, and inspires
Carousel presents the history of household innovations with humor and sensitivity, and guests also come to appreciate how far we’ve come in a century! The direct impact of electricity and other inventions on family life is vividly and heartwarmingly illustrated, and visitors can’t help but write themselves into the story and associate what they see with the quality of their own family lives.

7. A ‘progressive’ message.
As the attraction’s prologue declares, Walt Disney loved the idea of progress (especially in the context of the American family). This idea flourished at the core of all of his work, and it is the philosophical underpinning of practically all the wonders at Walt Disney World.

6. Classic methods of storytelling
The story of Carousel is impeccable. Audio-Animatronics figures engage the audience and bring the narrative alive, as well as lend the story a genuinely human dimension. Also, its story enhances the great variety of attractions at the Magic Kingdom.

5. Original characters, original song
While the parks increasingly use movie characters to tell stories (and use songs with much less frequency), Carousel of Progress is a stronghold of originality. The Carousel family has become a Magic Kingdom icon, while the Sherman Brothers’ “There’s a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow” is one of the most beloved and catchy theme park tunes of all time.

4. A unique ride system
Designed by Walt Disney himself, the Carousel theater is like no other show set on earth. It is the best vehicle for the attraction’s message (as progress is circular and continuous), as well as an interesting and engaging system to ride.

3. A living piece of Disney history
Carousel of Progress has always been one-of-a-kind, and it has one of the richest histories of all Disney attractions. Yet Carousel will never be condemned to be a historical relic (as long as it operates), for it can always be updated to reflect the times and the current direction of progress.

2. About the family, for the family
The attraction literally revolves around the family, the focal point of all of the changes happening in the world of invention. This is a hallmark of classic Disney entertainment, and it is seldom achieved better than in Carousel. Also, this attraction defines family entertainment, as family members of all ages can enjoy the show. Children will view the show as a humorous depiction of the past, while the attraction is nostalgic and wistful for elderly riders. Everyone can enjoy it, yet everyone comes away with something different.

1. It says Walt Disney all over it!
This speaks for itself, really. Carousel of Progress is a testament to Walt Disney’s genius as a showman, as an innovator, as a visionary, as a family man, and as a philosopher. It is the only Walt Disney World attraction that has his name on it and is the only ride in the Magic Kingdom in which guests learn about his creative legacy. The presence of Walt Disney will be alive and well in the Magic Kingdom as long as the gears of the Carousel of Progress are kept well oiled and turning.

Some tidbits you may not know. . .

· According to the archives and popular legend, the Carousel of Progress is the only attraction Walt Disney told his Imagineers to keep.

· “There’s a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow” is dedicated to Walt Disney. In the words of songwriter Richard Sherman, “that’s Walt.”

· The Carousel of Progress is the longest running stage show in the history of American theatre!

· The attraction has been seen by more people than any other stage show in American history.

· Unlike most Disney classics, which have versions in multiple parks, there is only one Carousel of Progress.

· Walt Disney’s Carousel of Progress is the only attraction in the Magic Kingdom that features Walt Disney and that features his name in its title.

· Although this is not confirmed, the robins showcased in Mary Poppins may be featured in the opening scene of the attraction. According to Richard Sherman, the robins appeared in the 1964 World’s Fair version, but it is uncertain whether or not they are the same animatronics as those in Walt Disney World’s version.

 

[joel_maxwell]

wow, well put grizz........................ maybe you should box that up in a nice little package and send it wdw way when (if) they ever decide to make changes to (cant say the name...... to sad)

 

[Hakunamatata]

I think we all have to remember that while MK is a family park it is a lot tougher to take small kids on CoP then it is to take them on Buzz. Walt always wanted a place where he could play with his daughters...if Walt were a normal adult now I doubt his daughters would have much fun on CoP.
J

Not true. I have enjoyed CoP as long as I can remember, and I started going when I was 7yo. CoP is an excellent place to allow our youth to see ages and times that are building blocks of our history. Its a real life history lesson. Take history out of it, its one of the few attractions in MK that allows you to sit for an extended period of time in an airconditioned sime-comfortable surroundings.

On a similar note, if they do ever take out CoP, after the hostilities have subsided, I hope they completely do away with the building. I was in DL last October and saw what they had done with the CoP building there and it honestly was sad.

 

[Master Yoda]

(Queue we are the word music)

First of all I would like to say Grizz and Woody you are both right. COP is outdated and it was initially a commercial for GE in that 60’s. But I also believe that the concept behind COP will never be outdated. So here is what I would propose for a solution. Condense virtually every scene in COP down to 1. This scene will show were we came from and how much progress we have made. After that the attraction should take more of a horizons feel. Start showing future technology and give the youth of Disney some goals to achieve. This would honor Walt’s desire to keep this attraction as well as embrace his idea of forward thinking.

 

[Lauriebar]

I think we all have to remember that while MK is a family park it is a lot tougher to take small kids on CoP then it is to take them on Buzz. Walt always wanted a place where he could play with his daughters...
J

You are right, he wanted a place where he could have fun with his children...not sit and watch them have fun and not be a participant. If the park is filled with mindless childrens attractions then where does that leave the adults?

"The idea for Disneyland came about when my daughters were very young and Saturday was always Daddy's day with the two daughters. So we'd start out an try to go someplace, you know, different things, and I'd take them to the merry-go-round and did all these things-sit on a bench, you know eating peanuts-I felt that there should be something built where the parents and the children could have fun together. so that's how Disneyland started. And eventually it evolved into what you see today at Disneyland. But it all started from a daddy with two daughters wondering where he could take them where he could have a little fun with them, too."

We do not give our children enough credit for their willingness to learn or their ability to pay attention for more than thirty seconds. My children like CoP. Is it their favorite? No. But that's okay because they can see how much their daddy and I enjoy it which makes them want to see it on every trip.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

I very much welcome the aspect of discussion raised by Jerm and CoryMitchell in reminding us of our commonality. I have railed against Jim Hill in other posts, BUT, I regularly visit his site and consider it an interesting source of supported rumor. We have no problem with our speculation (occasional misinformation), guesses, wishes and rumors originated here, why is there a problem fielding them from Jim. My criticism is with his format and delivery which is a separate thought (and thread). If you would notice, Jim got brought into this thread in Grizz's opening, not as a criticisim, but a source of a valid rumor.

Oh, by the way, welcome Cory...I haven't seen your previous postings, but your thoughts and insight are welcome (at least by me)...we usually do welcome new folks...where are our manners!

Anyway, we know a lot is changing and will continue to do so. I wholeheartedly agree with Grizz in that I want change and innovation too, but include the theme, the detail, the story, the life that only Disney can infuse into an attraction. I always thought the Stitch character had great potential, and would still love to see him associated with an attraction, just not the junk we were given.

As this thread had originated with the MNSSHP add on to the Carousel sign, what about the regular sign. Don't have my picture handy, but the sign did have another (nice) add-on. A part of the sign that said 2004. Don't know if that has been upgraded to 05, but I for some reason took that as a positive omen that it was being recognized as "current".

Sorry for the drifts, but JH is not the antichrist (necessarily ). He has more in common with us here than not, and ultimately does provide a real service to us Disney geeks. JMHO

 

[DisneyMemories]

Not true. I have enjoyed CoP as long as I can remember, and I started going when I was 7yo. CoP is an excellent place to allow our youth to see ages and times that are building blocks of our history. Its a real life history lesson. Take history out of it, its one of the few attractions in MK that allows you to sit for an extended period of time in an airconditioned sime-comfortable surroundings.

On a similar note, if they do ever take out CoP, after the hostilities have subsided, I hope they completely do away with the building. I was in DL last October and saw what they had done with the CoP building there and it honestly was sad.

Well l don't want COP to disapear either but what about the TTA track it runs along the edge of the building,they would need to have support beams and walls from the eliments,hate for that to be lost too if COP were to be no more. lf classic disney attractions keep disapearing then it's going to be hard to keep on loving disney.

 

[trackbarroness]

Well, I have to say that I take slight offense to the idea that Jim and the other authors on the site are just throwing stuff into the air until it sticks. I have a behind the scenes view of how Jim and our other authors work and I can say without doubt, that ideas are not being just thrown against a wall until something sticks. To say that would be to demean the hard work done by all our authors. When you deal with an industry that has many ups and downs in the development of a concept, you are bound to have varying levels of accuracy in prediction. Not to mention when someone occasionally throws you false information under false pretenses.

Hello Cory :wave: Good to see you posting here also. Any news about that pirate water park? Or was that just something someone just tossed a bone your way? Now Cory you know Imaginears can't reveal projects their working on or that have been given the green light? Idk

 

[wannab@dis]

Hello Cory :wave: Good to see you posting here also. Any news about that pirate water park? Or was that just something someone just tossed a bone your way? Now Cory you know Imaginears can't reveal projects their working on or that have been given the green light? Idk

psst... this thread is a year old.