lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Shouldn't people be similarly motivated to get the most out of their over priced room if they're staying on property?
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How to Un-Commando the Disney Vacation?
- Thread starter Sneezy62
- Start date
Prince-1
Well-Known Member
I agree with you on all your points. We are influenced by countless number of things everyday and being at Disney doesn't change that. I was simply saying that people already have the plan on either stayin at a park all day or not. Disney isn't doing anything to subconsciously alter those plans. Some might stay longer to see a parade perhaps but that isn't a subconscious thing that is planted. It is an entertainment offering that people might decide to enjoy. But I agree that Disney 100% percent tries to influence where to eat, where to stay, what to buy, etc. That is the business of Disney that is no different than any other entertainment venue.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
If parks could keep people around all day they wouldn't invest in the special night time entertainment.
wendysue
Well-Known Member
We are spontaneous...don't really like to plan ahead. That being said, I don't feel that the restaurants are that popular, but that Disney has MADE it impossible to walk into a place to eat without reservations being made 6 months out. Most people feel that they HAVE to make reservations that far out even if they might not want to eat there that day....
flynnibus
Premium Member
Yet that wasn't always the way people visited WDW...
And if that were true... Disney sure wasted millions in building so much recreation into WDW from the start outside the parks... and building places like Discovery Island, etc.
And why do people that visit other vacation resorts pace themselves different?
wolf359
Well-Known Member
In my mind (and based on experience) the parks were far more "commando-driven" in the days before dining reservations and Fastpass. I remember many trips to Disneyland where the first line of the day we stood in wasn't for Pirates or Space Mountain, but to get a lunch reservation at the Golden Horseshoe Revue. Or getting to the World Key terminal at EPCOT too late to get a reservation for a particular restaurant and having to settle on something else. Not to mention two and three hour waits for the E-tickets, and most importantly I remember wishing there was an alternative, and eventually, Disney provided.
Before reservations you simply stood in lines for everything that was popular. In the case of dining reservations you weren't even guaranteed that by the time you made it up to the podium you'd even get a reservation at all, let alone for the time you really wanted.
Of course no matter what the system is some will blame the system. Before Fastpass and dining reservations, you simply had no other alternative to standing in line for the things you wanted to do, and you had to plan out what you were willing to take a chance on missing out on by standing in one particular line first. Back then if you missed out on something it was your fault you didn't get there sooner.
Some may bemoan how Disney offering an alternative has somehow made it harder to see, do, and eat what you want but in my experience I'm able to accomplish more with less standing in line now than I did back in the "good old days." There has never been a time where a trip to a Disney park didn't require some form of advanced planning, it's just that what passes for advanced planning today is at one's fingertips via the internet.
Before reservations you simply stood in lines for everything that was popular. In the case of dining reservations you weren't even guaranteed that by the time you made it up to the podium you'd even get a reservation at all, let alone for the time you really wanted.
Of course no matter what the system is some will blame the system. Before Fastpass and dining reservations, you simply had no other alternative to standing in line for the things you wanted to do, and you had to plan out what you were willing to take a chance on missing out on by standing in one particular line first. Back then if you missed out on something it was your fault you didn't get there sooner.
Some may bemoan how Disney offering an alternative has somehow made it harder to see, do, and eat what you want but in my experience I'm able to accomplish more with less standing in line now than I did back in the "good old days." There has never been a time where a trip to a Disney park didn't require some form of advanced planning, it's just that what passes for advanced planning today is at one's fingertips via the internet.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Just the pacing at other Disney resorts seems to be different.
HouCuseChickie
Well-Known Member
Firstly, I 100% agree that the choice is up to you.
As for things like linesand FPs...I personally prefer all of this. All of our early trips- the pre-FP pre-interactive queue days -were full of long LONG lines. We still loved it, but to say it was better before fast passes were introduced is ridiculous. And if you think interactive queues are some kind of ploy, try waiting in that hour+ line with NOTHING to watch or do. Now I'm not saying you have to have some elaborate touring plan, but to say these things don't make the waits more tolerable is absurd. We still decide if we want to wait, if we want to grab FPs, or if we want to just take it slow...but to have the choice to make the lines shorter or more tolerable is a million times better to me than it was in the early days.
As for ADRs, I remember it being 1985 and my dad tried to make dinner reservations upon entering Epcot bright and early that morning...ya know, the ones where you could see your reservationist on the monitor in front of you. And I remember how heartbroken he was that all of the prime dinner spots were got at the few spots that really interested him, so we settled for Morocco (which was awful- at least to us- back then). Now maybe 180 days seems excessive, but I'd rather be able to have a way to book in advance to get into the spot of my choice. I don't even really have a problem with having to make a reservation period...I mean, reservations aren't just a Disney thing. I make reservations here in Houston for any popular restaurant and do the same pretty much anywhere where we travel if places take them.
And it's not just Disney that requests a credit card and has cancellation policies. Even dining in a couple of the places in Yellowstone, i was asked for a credit card to hold my reservation and could be hit with a no show fee. No show fees are becoming increasingly common b/c so many people lack the common courtesy of cancelling a reservation. We've seen this in Vegas too. And if you think 180 days is nuts...some of the popular spots in Vegas, NY, and even the national parks books up even farther in advance. I guess maybe you've had to have some experience with these things to have that perspective on it though.
Ultimately, we make all of our ADRs in advance and pick which parks we're going to be on which day and that's really about it. Yes, we do sometimes have to stop whatever we're doing to make an ADR, but how is that any different from DH getting up from the blackjack table to head to our dinner reservations for the evening? Or even just calling the kids in from the back yard or the park so we can head to a local RFC to make a reservation there? I mean, to me - that's just life.
Finally, one of the best things you can do...build in break time. Whether it's an afternoon back at your resort, shopping, in the pool, etc. or a full break day to just lounge around. This will totally help you have a nice and relaxing trip.
As for things like linesand FPs...I personally prefer all of this. All of our early trips- the pre-FP pre-interactive queue days -were full of long LONG lines. We still loved it, but to say it was better before fast passes were introduced is ridiculous. And if you think interactive queues are some kind of ploy, try waiting in that hour+ line with NOTHING to watch or do. Now I'm not saying you have to have some elaborate touring plan, but to say these things don't make the waits more tolerable is absurd. We still decide if we want to wait, if we want to grab FPs, or if we want to just take it slow...but to have the choice to make the lines shorter or more tolerable is a million times better to me than it was in the early days.
As for ADRs, I remember it being 1985 and my dad tried to make dinner reservations upon entering Epcot bright and early that morning...ya know, the ones where you could see your reservationist on the monitor in front of you. And I remember how heartbroken he was that all of the prime dinner spots were got at the few spots that really interested him, so we settled for Morocco (which was awful- at least to us- back then). Now maybe 180 days seems excessive, but I'd rather be able to have a way to book in advance to get into the spot of my choice. I don't even really have a problem with having to make a reservation period...I mean, reservations aren't just a Disney thing. I make reservations here in Houston for any popular restaurant and do the same pretty much anywhere where we travel if places take them.
And it's not just Disney that requests a credit card and has cancellation policies. Even dining in a couple of the places in Yellowstone, i was asked for a credit card to hold my reservation and could be hit with a no show fee. No show fees are becoming increasingly common b/c so many people lack the common courtesy of cancelling a reservation. We've seen this in Vegas too. And if you think 180 days is nuts...some of the popular spots in Vegas, NY, and even the national parks books up even farther in advance. I guess maybe you've had to have some experience with these things to have that perspective on it though.
Ultimately, we make all of our ADRs in advance and pick which parks we're going to be on which day and that's really about it. Yes, we do sometimes have to stop whatever we're doing to make an ADR, but how is that any different from DH getting up from the blackjack table to head to our dinner reservations for the evening? Or even just calling the kids in from the back yard or the park so we can head to a local RFC to make a reservation there? I mean, to me - that's just life.
Finally, one of the best things you can do...build in break time. Whether it's an afternoon back at your resort, shopping, in the pool, etc. or a full break day to just lounge around. This will totally help you have a nice and relaxing trip.
mickey2008.1
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately wdw is making it harder to slow down. The new rfid tags will make us plan our parks via fast pass. This is already done with ddp. You don't have to do it, but if you don't, your chances of a ressie are low and probably will not get on the attraction without a significant wait. Now you have to plan your fp's, or very soon., not sure what the transition period is. I currently like the fact that I can go get a fp that day, but that is coming to an end. And if you have to plan fp's, will this not have a big effect on park hopping? We just do one park a day anymore and enjoY it, so it won't afect me. That is how we have slowed down, no park hopper. Hey this is open late, let's go there. Not anymore, one park and done, hitpools and hot tub.
wolf359
Well-Known Member
That's what we've begun doing, and it has completely changed how we enjoy our vacation. One day in the middle of the trip to be lazy, shop, resort hop, go to the spa, whatever we want. Strange how Disney offers all of these amenities around the property yet no one seems ready to accuse Disney of making it easier to slow down because of all of the non-theme park diversions they offer...
I see things for what what they are, what they mean to me, and their usefulness. I am also willing and capable of doing my part in making sure I enjoy my own vacation. If I don't have the vacation I want to have, knowing I'm going to the single most attended vacation destination in the entire world, I'm not sure who else to blame but myself. Disney offers plenty of things to do that don't require pre-planning or even theme park admission. Their introduction of dining reservations, Fastpass, and the soon to be Fastpass plus are all offered up in addition to the old way of just showing up and taking your chances. Sure, if you "just show up" and expect to see the most popular attractions or restaurants you might be disappointed in how few you manage to get into, but that really isn't any different than the old system of standing in line for everything. At least now you have the option of not standing in that line because you did a little pre-planning.
Disney is doing what every business does...maximizing their income stream. Every empty table is lost revenue so Disney created a situation where most of the restaurants operate at near 100% capacity every day.
You can still do last minute table service at WDW, you just have to be flexible about where you go.
blueboxdoctor
Well-Known Member
Do what you wish, Disney has options for everyone to go at the pace they want to. Who cares if some are going fast and others slower? Do a bit of both to mix it up if you think Disney is getting to fast paced.
moonwishes2013
Active Member
My Wish list!!
I wish it was cheaper,
I wish it did not have any long lines
I wish for a standing ADR at the resturants that I like & when I want it.
I wish it was built just for me!!!
WAIT A MINUTE --- THIS IS JUST A WISH????
I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON THAT LOVES DISNEY???
OH WELL, IT IS WHAT IT IS!!!
I wish it was cheaper,
I wish it did not have any long lines
I wish for a standing ADR at the resturants that I like & when I want it.
I wish it was built just for me!!!
WAIT A MINUTE --- THIS IS JUST A WISH????
I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON THAT LOVES DISNEY???
OH WELL, IT IS WHAT IT IS!!!
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I care because Disney has been more and more focusing on certain demographics to the detriment of others.
EOD K9
Well-Known Member
The only way to un-commando the experience is for the vacationer to choose it for themselves. The missus and I are going later this year for a Disney Cruise but staying at AKV for one night prior to the trip. We are choosing, for the first time ever, to be on Disney property and NOT hit the parks. This is our chance to just be really lazy and enjoy everything else. It does however help though that we have pretty much hit everything in previous visits. However, to sum up, see my first sentence.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Wow.. people are so blind to how companies shape and influence the choices you make.
Of course ultimately the choice is yours in most cases.. but that doesn't mean your choice was without influence from the company and that those influences aren't very strategic in nature.
It amazes me how people don't connect the dots in how pricing, bundling, marketing, and others steer customer behavior. And no, it's no 'inevitable' in what the conclusions are.
Do you not realize that by bundling hotel stay to length of tickets discourages people from NOT being in the parks every day.. and how it discourages offsite adventures by making the default choice for tickets include all days.. and how by skipping a day they 'penalize' you by making the per day price higher if you do so? It's these types of choices that steer customer's choices.
A simple example of how that could be different is if Disney did not incentivize ticket purchases with room and suggest a # of ticket days coupled to your length of hotel stay. Imagine if Disney instead had a website that suggested a ratio of 60/40 for tickets vs hotel stay to start with combined with marketing about Disney's non-park offerings during your stay.
Do you really believe AllStars is a better hotel experience than many other options? Well through bundling they lead you to believe allstars is 'good enough' and condition you to downplay those areas AllStars lacks in because they offer you a bigger carrot if you ignore those shortcomings. Do you really prefer staying a motel efficiency over a hotel when you are staying at any other place besides Disney?
Do you not see how through Disney's upsell of Ticket duration they try to loop you into longer stays and even repeat stays? Do you not see how the marketing encourages you not to just take advantage of the entertainment, but pushes you to see ALL the entertainment?
How many times at other resorts do you feel compelled to try ALL the resturants?
The trends, choices, marketing.. all of these are pushing the idea of 'there is so much..' and 'you get more value if you do more..' and the pricing all influence people into the ideas of 'we gotta see it all' 'we gotta get our value for our dollar' and 'these perks offset our normal expectations'.
Of course ultimately the choice is yours in most cases.. but that doesn't mean your choice was without influence from the company and that those influences aren't very strategic in nature.
It amazes me how people don't connect the dots in how pricing, bundling, marketing, and others steer customer behavior. And no, it's no 'inevitable' in what the conclusions are.
Do you not realize that by bundling hotel stay to length of tickets discourages people from NOT being in the parks every day.. and how it discourages offsite adventures by making the default choice for tickets include all days.. and how by skipping a day they 'penalize' you by making the per day price higher if you do so? It's these types of choices that steer customer's choices.
A simple example of how that could be different is if Disney did not incentivize ticket purchases with room and suggest a # of ticket days coupled to your length of hotel stay. Imagine if Disney instead had a website that suggested a ratio of 60/40 for tickets vs hotel stay to start with combined with marketing about Disney's non-park offerings during your stay.
Do you really believe AllStars is a better hotel experience than many other options? Well through bundling they lead you to believe allstars is 'good enough' and condition you to downplay those areas AllStars lacks in because they offer you a bigger carrot if you ignore those shortcomings. Do you really prefer staying a motel efficiency over a hotel when you are staying at any other place besides Disney?
Do you not see how through Disney's upsell of Ticket duration they try to loop you into longer stays and even repeat stays? Do you not see how the marketing encourages you not to just take advantage of the entertainment, but pushes you to see ALL the entertainment?
How many times at other resorts do you feel compelled to try ALL the resturants?
The trends, choices, marketing.. all of these are pushing the idea of 'there is so much..' and 'you get more value if you do more..' and the pricing all influence people into the ideas of 'we gotta see it all' 'we gotta get our value for our dollar' and 'these perks offset our normal expectations'.
Club Cooloholic
Well-Known Member
Well, I plan on De-Commandoing this next trip. I will be going with my wife and our 3 yr old and 5 month old(at the time of trip) so we need to go slower. I had planned to on starting the trip at Universal, staying onsite and everything there, but when I really started thinking about I realized this would force me to commando both Disney and Universal, because I was going to lose at least a day at Disney. So we are just doing Disney and I plan on not being out at the parks as late, and resting more at POR.
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
Very true. My family met in Disney last summer for a family vacation. My 2 sisters and mom went to the beach for 3 days before we met in Disney. We decided that to get our moneys worth, we would not go to the beach as well, but stay in Disney the whole time. Why? The cost for the extra 3 days on our tickets was so small and the room didn't cost anything extra because of DVC.
Thanks for the responses! I think there are three things at work.
1. The way people vacation has changed greatly, whether it's Disney or not. When WDW opened the great American vacation was a road trip to a national park or other destination. Much of the trip was getting there and getting home. Flying was a very expensive proposition. Vacations were of necessity longer. Families often meandered along the way. People in general don't think like that any more. It's all climax all the time. Get where you are going and do big things as much as possible. There is no tomorrow! We may never be able to do this again!
2. Disney plays into this by front loading ticket prices and expiring them after 14 days. Use it or loose it! Or pay a big penalty for no expire if something happens. 5 night 6 day packages make you feel that you must spend as much time as possible in the parks. The marketing doesn't focus on going to a resort that has the advantage of being close to the theme parks. It focuses on going to theme parks that have expensive hotel rooms close by, the more you pay the closer you are to the parks. The DVC model does go against this direction but it commits you to spending most of your vacations at Disney. In general DVCers and possibly campers are the folks who still enjoy WDW the way it was intended when it opened.
3. The internet. When a novice starts looking around the thing that pops out are all the discussions about getting the most for your money. Of course that's the first thing someone asks so it's the first thing they start to learn about. It becomes a cycle and a competition to find the best deals, get the most FPs, get the best ADRs, see the most characters, get the most ride photos ect. Is there a shortcut? How to I get ahead? You want to sleep in and enjoy your resort ? FINE, but you're never gonna ride Toy Story without standing in the loser line!
1. The way people vacation has changed greatly, whether it's Disney or not. When WDW opened the great American vacation was a road trip to a national park or other destination. Much of the trip was getting there and getting home. Flying was a very expensive proposition. Vacations were of necessity longer. Families often meandered along the way. People in general don't think like that any more. It's all climax all the time. Get where you are going and do big things as much as possible. There is no tomorrow! We may never be able to do this again!
2. Disney plays into this by front loading ticket prices and expiring them after 14 days. Use it or loose it! Or pay a big penalty for no expire if something happens. 5 night 6 day packages make you feel that you must spend as much time as possible in the parks. The marketing doesn't focus on going to a resort that has the advantage of being close to the theme parks. It focuses on going to theme parks that have expensive hotel rooms close by, the more you pay the closer you are to the parks. The DVC model does go against this direction but it commits you to spending most of your vacations at Disney. In general DVCers and possibly campers are the folks who still enjoy WDW the way it was intended when it opened.
3. The internet. When a novice starts looking around the thing that pops out are all the discussions about getting the most for your money. Of course that's the first thing someone asks so it's the first thing they start to learn about. It becomes a cycle and a competition to find the best deals, get the most FPs, get the best ADRs, see the most characters, get the most ride photos ect. Is there a shortcut? How to I get ahead? You want to sleep in and enjoy your resort ? FINE, but you're never gonna ride Toy Story without standing in the loser line!