1. Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.
    Dismiss Notice

How Much Security is Too Much?

Discussion in 'WDW Parks General Discussion' started by 21stamps, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Chef Mickey

    Chef Mickey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    6,873
    Apples and oranges, clearly.

    Although likelihood is small, a tragic event is more likely at Disney because of the massive amount of people and its iconic worldwide presence.

    Disney already spent millions after a once in a lifetime tragedy and the obviously see importance in this. They just need to go all the way.
     
  2. Matt_Black

    Matt_Black Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,975
    Likes Received:
    23,592
    All the way includes full body cavity searches for everyone, so let's actually hope they don't go that far. I couldn't imagine trying to ride Space Mountain after that.
     
    Angel Ariel and zengoth like this.
  3. drizgirl

    drizgirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,755
    Likes Received:
    3,531

    I'd feel a lot better about all the security additions outside the Disney parks if I knew they were being just as thorough with what's coming in the back gates (CM's and deliveries).
     
  4. beertiki

    beertiki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    456
    As long as you can bring a loaded double wide stroller or ride an ECV to the parks with a less than 30 second search, the lines are pointless. All you are going to get are the guys who carry pocket knives, and a gun nut who thinks his concealed weapon is making everyone else safer. I am sure behind some window there is a guy with binoculars scanning the crowd and communicating with guys on the ground, and they are really paying attention to any single male 18 to 30.

    As long as bags are only searched by hand, anything can brought in. No security baggage checker in a Disney line is ever going to open a bag bag of diapers or box of tampons. It's all just show, and all I can hope is the guys with binoculars and scanning the crowd with cameras had a good night sleep.
     
    zengoth, Johnny Hess and 21stamps like this.
  5. PatInCT

    PatInCT New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    16
    Agreed... the fallacy of "more invasive searches" is that if someone is set on doing something they can do it at the queue for bag search. Lots of people lined up there and they haven't passed through security yet. That's why the whole exercise is just pointless.
     
    Angel Ariel, 21stamps and beertiki like this.
  6. Vaughn4380

    Vaughn4380 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    104
    Don't give them any ideas.

    Just as an FYI, Disney World allows small pocket knives. Blade has to be 3 inches or less. Not sure about the other Disney parks.
     
  7. beertiki

    beertiki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    456

    It's does not matter if it happens in the security line, on main street, the mine train, the bus from CSR, or the pool bathroom at POP. The headlines will read Walt Disney World.
     
    Angel Ariel, Smiley/OCD and 21stamps like this.
  8. larryz

    larryz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    2,499
    Likes Received:
    4,794
    They COULD offer that as an upcharge...
     
    Alice a likes this.
  9. EOD K9

    EOD K9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    4,559
    Drug sniffing dogs would serve no purpose on property. Disney does have explosive detection dogs. A good K9 team can thoroughly search the exterior of a normal size vehicle in less than a minute. I kinda know what I am talking about on that one.
    To answer your question about how many attacks were stopped based on the lines, we measure success on the fact that nothing happened. The bad guys need to be lucky once, we need to be lucky and on point every day.
     
  10. PatInCT

    PatInCT New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    16
    So how many explosive detecting dogs and handlers would you need to cover all the cars heading into WDW? At an extra 1 minute per car you'd never get in there (even with 10 lanes open).

    How many attacks were there at WDW prior to 9/11? The same number as we've had since... it's a huge waste of time and money for all parties involved. Normal vigilence is all that's required of Disney security. 30 years ago if you were walking through the park and took your shirt off (a dress code violation) you wouldn't last 10 seconds before a security guard would approach you and tell you to put it on.

    My point is that this heightened security is 99.9% theater (not just as Disney).
     
    Matt_Black likes this.
  11. mousehockey37

    mousehockey37 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,360
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    The part in bold is true, but in the end, if something's gonna happen, it's gonna happen.

    Take your example of airline safety. You could do everything right while on the ground. But if there's something that goes wrong in the air, you're just along for the ride at that point.

    So Chef, for your sake, I hope your bunker is secured 24 stories underground.
     
    ford91exploder and drizgirl like this.
  12. EOD K9

    EOD K9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    4,559
    With the amount of vehicles and entrance points on property, coupled with environmental factors, and three shifts, that answer would be more than 100.
    Having their K9 teams search for person borne improvised explosive devices while waiting at the turnstiles is very quick and non-intrusive. They are being checked as they get off the monorail and headed to the gates. That is not really an issue as nobody is being detained during that search. If the K9 shows interest or indicates on a person, well, then that changes everything.
     
    Wolf43, 21stamps and MinnieM123 like this.
  13. Chef Mickey

    Chef Mickey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    6,873
    ;l
    I'm far from a bunker dweller...I just know you can work to prevent a lot of tragedy and it happens every da. You can't just point to the tragedy and say, oh see, it happened. The unmeasurable avoided tragedies are what you're striving to achieve. No news is good news.

    At some point, enough is enough and it no longer makes sense, actually becoming a negative. I'd argue airline safety is pretty much tapped out. Disney is nowhere near that point and a tragedy will have huge ramifications.
     
  14. mousehockey37

    mousehockey37 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,360
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    There is no measure of safety that will ever be "tapped out". Safety is an illusion.

    Disney has a team that handles these things. They more than likely work with the government and most definitely local law enforcement to stay aware of things as well as putting new measures into place if it is deemed necessary. As the world becomes more unstable by the second, Disney will be forced to alter and add to its already known and unknown security presence and practices.

    To some, Disney has enough security, to others, not enough. That battle will forever continue.
     
  15. Chef Mickey

    Chef Mickey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    6,873
    Flying has become almost absurdly safe, improving essentially every year as a percentage of miles flown, but it did not happen overnight.

    Some safety is an illusion, not all. I'd still say Disney has more to go and you'll see it should anything bad happen. I so hope it never does.

    The "badness" of the world is far more constructed by the media than it is in reality. You still need to be prepared and Disney can be better prepared, in my opinion.
     
  16. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member Original Poster

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    12,950
    Likes Received:
    14,273
    But to what point? Do you agree that personal watercraft rentals need a security station as well? This would mean multiple check points inside of a resort. Yet wide open areas 10ft away full of people who have never passed thru any security.
    In my opinion, this is nonsensical. If you are going to secure an area- Secure It.
    But this nonsense of 3 or more security locations, for specific activities, at the MK resorts just seems like a bunch of actions taken to make overly worried people "feel better" about seeing more security... when in reality, they are not secured.
     
  17. Chef Mickey

    Chef Mickey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    6,873
    That's my whole point about getting serious about security. At minimum, you've got to close the loopholes at whatever cost. They have money. Next, you need to beef up and at the same time streamline the park entry security. It can be both better and faster.

    I totally agree there is a point that the cost outweighs any benefit, but they aren't close. They need to spend more and view it as an investment in potential avoidance of bigger problems.
     
  18. mousehockey37

    mousehockey37 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,360
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    That's the problem. There's no way to do it. You can't secure every person, car, truck, plane, train, etc that passes over any property owned by WDW.

    Even if you could somehow fully secure everything, people who are intent on doing something will find a way to do it.

    Look at the White House. People aren't supposed to be able to get past the fence, nor the yard and reach the actual White House itself, yet over the past year, we've had more than 1 person get around that.
     
  19. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member Original Poster

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    12,950
    Likes Received:
    14,273
    IMO they are wasting money by investing in the things I mentioned above.. invest in securing the entire resort- 1 check point upon entry/re entry.

    I saw a photo of the Grand Californian where security guards are blocking everyone off unless they are resort guests. It was mentioned that WDW may go that route too. i don't know how they would accomplish it.. maybe set security before you even enter that area...that way everyone can still visit. All of it will be under a secure zone.
     
  20. Chef Mickey

    Chef Mickey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3,790
    Likes Received:
    6,873
    It's not about perfection. Currently, they aren't close enough and can improve a lot without being insane to do so.
     

Share This Page