How did Universe of Energy survive but not Horizons and WOM?

[Wakkie Nu Nu]

Nah, UOE has never had a big fanbase. WOM and Horizons did. Everyone agrees those rides needed to be updated, Horizons anyway, but its not getting "love" now just because its gone. People don't miss Imagination only because its no longer there (because really, its not). WOM and Horizons were much bigger pieces of EPCOT than UOE..

I guess I just don't see it from that perspective - growing up going to the parks from the mid 80's to the early 90's, Horizons and WoM went from front line attractions to not being able to draw flies. Could they have used some renovations? Of course - most things could. But there's a REASON they were closed, and it has nothing to do with a sinkhole. I loved both of them, but I also understand (and witnessed) they had wait times equivalent of today's Imagination (Horizons was even seasonal!). The after the fact worship (by many people who never even had the pleasure) wouldn't even be necessary if people had cared enough to bother going on the thing when it was still open.

And I would also argue that UoE was absolutely as big a part of early Epcot as those two... the Radok blocks, amazing ride system, a great original score, a perfect fit with the theme of original EPCOT Center, and some of the most impressive and awe inspiring AAs on property. It wasn't at all as it is today.... again, this goes towards my point of its legacy being damaged by the refurb/staying open/becoming a dinosaur (so to speak).

 

[Wakkie Nu Nu]

Horizons and WoM's popularity are directly proportional to the amount of time you spent with AAs while on the ride and the number of set pieces. WoM had around 200 AAs, 30 sets and was 15 minutes long. Horizons had 50 AAs, 25 sets and was 15 minutes long. UoE has 35 AAs, 1 long set and is 7 minutes long (excluding the films - I'm just referring to the moving portion). Horizons and WoM featured music pervasive throughout the entirety of the attractions; UoE does not (don't get me wrong, the two original songs are terrific, but you're not bombarded with them throughout the ride portion).

And that right there is why Horizons and WoM (like Pirates, the Haunted Mansion and Spaceship Earth - and the original JII) have massive dedicated fanbases, and the UoE has less of one. Long darkrides can be enjoyed by everyone (from 4 to 70) and people can develop affection for them over time.

While I may agree with you personally (in most areas), I don't think we can say any of that is beyond just someone's opinion. I love dark rides, but it's all about quality and show, not number of AAs or length. Tower of Terror would have legions of sentimental fans if it left tomorrow... it has no AAs, it's very short, and it's certainly not for all ages. So would Dumbo, which is a simple state fair spinner. 20,000 Leagues does. A quality attraction is a quality attraction.

I agree with you, as I have a fondness for dark rides (AAs or otherwise). But I know several folks who would rather lose a GMR, IaSW, HoP, LwtL, Imagination!, Maelstrom, Gran Fiesta Tour, or WtP instead of RnRC, ToT, Space Mountain, E:E, Soarin', Test Track, or Kilimanjaro.

And maybe it's nostalgia or memory, but I recall those "35 AAs" in UoE to be some of the most amazing and awe inspiring on property in its heyday. The "dino scene" is still operating 28 years later.

 

[Studios Fan]

^ Well said.

 

[misterID]

I guess I just don't see it from that perspective - growing up going to the parks from the mid 80's to the early 90's, Horizons and WoM went from front line attractions to not being able to draw flies. Could they have used some renovations? Of course - most things could. But there's a REASON they were closed, and it has nothing to do with a sinkhole. I loved both of them, but I also understand (and witnessed) they had wait times equivalent of today's Imagination (Horizons was even seasonal!). The after the fact worship (by many people who never even had the pleasure) wouldn't even be necessary if people had cared enough to bother going on the thing when it was still open.

See, this just isn't accurate. Pretty much anyone who knows the story knows the REASON Horizons closed was over sponsorship. Replacing Horizons and WOM with thrill rides had everything to do with EPCOT as a whole and not so much the rides themselves. EPCOT was not a popular park back then. The decision was made to bring in thrill rides to bring in the younger crowd who, in disney's words, fought with their parents to stay at MK.

It has ZERO to do with "worshipping" a ride just because its gone. They had fans. The failed sonsorship of Horizons and the expensive upkeep of WOM for GM were the reasons they got replaced.

 

[drossjr]

Why and what location?

The plot for WOL or UOE

 

[Master Yoda]

See, this just isn't accurate. Pretty much anyone who knows the story knows the REASON Horizons closed was over sponsorship. Replacing Horizons and WOM with thrill rides had everything to do with EPCOT as a whole and not so much the rides themselves. EPCOT was not a popular park back then. The decision was made to bring in thrill rides to bring in the younger crowd who, in disney's words, fought with their parents to stay at MK.

It has ZERO to do with "worshipping" a ride just because its gone. They had fans. The failed sonsorship of Horizons and the expensive upkeep of WOM for GM were the reasons they got replaced.

Actually he is partially correct. Sponsorship had wained due to low guest counts and high maintenance costs. If people were filling Horizons and WoM they would still have sponsorship and would still be open. The reality is they did not pull guests in their latter years. Could refurbs and updates changed this? Possibly, but the sure thing was making them thrill rides. Thrill rides consistently pull big numbers and if corporations are going to write 6 and 7 figure sponsorship checks they do not want to here "maybe".

 

[marni1971]

they had wait times equivalent of today's Imagination (Horizons was even seasonal!)

Horizons went seasonal (and came out its waiting-for-refurb state) when Epcot `94 was begun. Too many pavilions would be closed otherwise.

If people were filling Horizons and WoM they would still have sponsorship and would still be open.

GE pulled out in 1993 - once their 10 years were up - when lines for Horizons were still insane (as I witnessed that year) :wave:

 

[Figment632]

The plot for WOL or UOE

Why?

 

[Master Yoda]

Horizons went seasonal (and came out its waiting-for-refurb state) when Epcot `94 was begun. Too many pavilions would be closed otherwise.
GE pulled out in 1993 - once their 10 years were up - when lines for Horizons were still insane (as I witnessed that year) :wave:

I went to Epcot some what frequently (every couple of years) starting in 1985 and I have never encountered lines at Horizons outside of the 1980's and many of those trips were during Thanksgiving week. It would be nice to see some official attendance numbers so we could look at something other than anecdotes.

 

[misterID]

Actually he is partially correct. Sponsorship had wained due to low guest counts and high maintenance costs. If people were filling Horizons and WoM they would still have sponsorship and would still be open. The reality is they did not pull guests in their latter years. Could refurbs and updates changed this? Possibly, but the sure thing was making them thrill rides. Thrill rides consistently pull big numbers and if corporations are going to write 6 and 7 figure sponsorship checks they do not want to here "maybe".

But these rides keep getting singled out when the entire park was getting low grades. They did need thrill rides. The sponsor problems gave them a big opportunity to build those thrill rides. Sponsorship is the only reason M:S is on top of Horizons plot and not UOE's.

 

[PurpleDragon]

I went to Epcot some what frequently (every couple of years) starting in 1985 and I have never encountered lines at Horizons outside of the 1980's and many of those trips were during Thanksgiving week. It would be nice to see some official attendance numbers so we could look at something other than anecdotes.

I've been visiting Epcot since it opened and I completely agree with that assessment, once the 90's rolled around Horizons became stale and stuck in the 1980's. The guest traffic thru that pavilion dwindled down to virtually nil and I would assume that played a roll in GE pulling sponsorship after their 10 year contract expired. Once the pavilion lost its sponsorship that was pretty much the final nail in the coffin. Low guest numbers, high maintenance costs, and no sponsorship were the 3 main reasons many original Epcot attractions closed or were given a makeover (i.e. Horizions, WoM, Imagination, SSE, etc...)

I would also like to see some attendance numbers, because from what I remember on more than one visit I thought Horizons was closed because no one was entering the building.

 

[Master Yoda]

I've been visiting Epcot since it opened and I completely agree with that assessment, once the 90's rolled around Horizons became stale and stuck in the 1980's. The guest traffic thru that pavilion dwindled down to virtually nil and I would assume that played a roll in GE pulling sponsorship after their 10 year contract expired. Once the pavilion lost its sponsorship that was pretty much the final nail in the coffin. Low guest numbers, high maintenance costs, and no sponsorship were the 3 main reasons many original Epcot attractions closed or were given a makeover (i.e. Horizions, WoM, Imagination, SSE, etc...)

I would also like to see some attendance numbers, because from what I remember on more than one visit I thought Horizons was closed because no one was entering the building.

Exactly. There is never just one black and white cause for a closure. It almost always takes a combination of factors to bring an attraction down. Had GE kept its sponsorship regardless of guest counts Horizons might still be there.

 

[Figment632]

I've been visiting Epcot since it opened and I completely agree with that assessment, once the 90's rolled around Horizons became stale and stuck in the 1980's. The guest traffic thru that pavilion dwindled down to virtually nil and I would assume that played a roll in GE pulling sponsorship after their 10 year contract expired. Once the pavilion lost its sponsorship that was pretty much the final nail in the coffin. Low guest numbers, high maintenance costs, and no sponsorship were the 3 main reasons many original Epcot attractions closed or were given a makeover (i.e. Horizions, WoM, Imagination, SSE, etc...)

I would also like to see some attendance numbers, because from what I remember on more than one visit I thought Horizons was closed because no one was entering the building.

I went to Epcot some what frequently (every couple of years) starting in 1985 and I have never encountered lines at Horizons outside of the 1980's and many of those trips were during Thanksgiving week. It would be nice to see some official attendance numbers so we could look at something other than anecdotes.

Horizons never had a line for the same reason SSE rarely has one, it is a people eater with a huge capacity!

 

[Master Yoda]

Horizons never had a line for the same reason SSE rarely has one, it is a people eater with a huge capacity!

No line but full cars is fine. No line and 4 out of 5 cars empty is not.

 

[Figment632]

No line but full cars is fine. No line and 4 out of 5 cars empty is not.

I only experienced this towards the end in 97 when the pavilion was in dire need of an overhaul. If it had gotten LOVE in 94 like SSE it would have been fine.

 

[Master Yoda]

I only experienced this towards the end in 97 when the pavilion was in dire need of an overhaul. If it had gotten LOVE in 94 like SSE it would have been fine.

It should have received it long before that. If guest counts had remained high the sponsor might not have pulled out at the end of their contract.

 

[Figment632]

It should have received it long before that. If guest counts had remained high the sponsor might not have pulled out at the end of their contract.

Yes if it did get the complete overhaul in 94 however imo it would still be around today!

 

[Master Yoda]

Yes if it did get the complete overhaul in 94 however imo it would still be around today!

Who was going to pay for it? GE was gone by 1993. Had that big refurb of 94 happened in say 1990 GE very well might have extended their contract. The big problem with an attraction like Horizons is that they need to be updated quite frequently. When they don't attendance withers and the attraction dies. Disney should have planed for frequent changes and updates but they didn't. They looked at Horizons like it was a timeless piece like POTC or HM that just needed to be kept running.

 

[Figment632]

Who was going to pay for it? GE was gone by 1993. Had that big refurb of 94 happened in say 1990 GE very well might have extended their contract. The big problem with an attraction like Horizons is that they need to be updated quite frequently. When they don't attendance withers and the attraction dies. Disney should have planed for frequent changes and updates but they didn't. They looked at Horizons like it was a timeless piece like POTC or HM that just needed to be kept running.

Should have bee and was 99% going to be Disney till Darth Eisner stepped in.

 

[PurpleDragon]

Who was going to pay for it? GE was gone by 1993. Had that big refurb of 94 happened in say 1990 GE very well might have extended their contract. The big problem with an attraction like Horizons is that they need to be updated quite frequently. When they don't attendance withers and the attraction dies. Disney should have planed for frequent changes and updates but they didn't. They looked at Horizons like it was a timeless piece like POTC or HM that just needed to be kept running.

Exactly!!

Any attraction about the "Future" (not the future that never was like TL) requires constant updates to keep up with current technology. SSE got these updates on a regular basis, especially since AT&T continued sponsorship thru the second refurb. I'm pretty sure GE pulled sponsorship because they couldn't justify spending large amounts of money to sponsor an attraction that no one was riding.

Also the excuse that Horizons was a huge attraction that had high capacity doesn't explain why there was never anyone entering the building. I could see if there was a constant flow of people into the attraction, but when there is not a sole within 50 yards of the entrance that sort of tells me no one was really interested in the ride. I remember on a few trips back in the early 90's I thought the ride was closed and had to walk up to the doors to tell if it was actually open.