Rumor Hollywood insiders say there's growing tension at Disney as CEO Bob Chapek chafes at Bob Iger's 'long goodbye'

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Whaddaya got?

A new Stitch meet and greet?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sure they are badly run, and we will all still be here in another 20 years claiming the sky is falling.



If they end up needing new attractions, they can build them, and certainly they can built them in less than five years.

There's a lot that can be said in assuming that Disney needs to keep building attractions, or that they can only build them on a ridiculous timeline. Don't make the mistake of thinking that being slow is a fault rather than a choice. It's a choice they can afford to make.

I’m not claiming the sky is falling. Disney is the one company maybe on earth (ok…Comcast too) where the decline in product and increase in price is tolerated and not questioned…it’s a “gift” I suppose. I’m saying that the lack of actual management skills would make almost any fan blush if they were privy to it.

Disney hasn’t constructed anything in under 5 years in Orlando as of late…frozen (refit) and springs (refit/expension) may have been 4 and they practically shot a rocket up their butt for those.

What’s not being talked about nearly enough is they have absolutely nothing in the pipeline…

It’s gonna get salty about that around these parts very soon.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

A new Stitch meet and greet?

To sell Marriott DVC at $275 a point?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

What’s not being talked about nearly enough is they have absolutely nothing in the pipeline…

It’s gonna get salty about that around these parts very soon.

You don't think Guardians and Tron are going to give them a very long runway? They coasted on Mine Train for five years.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You don't think Guardians and Tron are going to give them a very long runway? They coasted on Mine Train for five years.

Mine train is what it is because they added nothing since splash 20 years prior. And it was 10 years.

Guardians looks good…I think…and tron will please…but they are what they are.

They’ve opened a lot of underachievers with “short runways” these last 5 years

 

[el_super]

But I gotta admit I’m having a hard time with the “Josh” stuff.

Yeah let me be clear... I am a firm believer in actions speaking louder than words, and Josh says a lot of words. For some people though, words are important. If CMs take those words of encouragement from Josh, and pass them on to the CMs working under them, or to the guests directly, that still has benefit, however minor.

That being said, I still think it's folly to try to deduce which exec pushed for which initiative over another and it always leads down that arbitrary slippery slope of "good" qualities to some and "bad" qualities to others. Josh would certainly get points taken away for whatever involvement he had in Lake Nona or Ken Potrock.

I guess I'd consider it more of a delay tactic than a "response".

It's strategic. They have a whole team of people who can analyze social media and booking trends to determine when an attraction's marketing campaign will have the most impact. More than likely they realized that bookings this year were still soft compared to years prior, or that the long lead time in bookings already satisfied the need for 2022/2023, so they are planning for the future.

 

[el_super]

I’m not claiming the sky is falling. Disney is the one company maybe on earth (ok…Comcast too) where the decline in product and increase in price is tolerated and not questioned…it’s a “gift” I suppose. I’m saying that the lack of actual management skills would make almost any fan blush if they were privy to it.

Don't those two statements cancel out? If Disney management has found a way that their customers will completely tolerate any price increases without question, then they've certainly performed masterfully at their task.

I don't really think that's true though. I think the management is actually good at listening to what their customers want and providing more options for the broader audience. It just seems confusing to the fans on the extreme side of the spectrum, because what the broader audience wants, is not what they want.

You think of it this way: They can offer a premium experience for a high price (like Starcruiser) and satisfy the needs of the well-to-do people who value the experience. Or they can offer a cheap park experience with long lines and crowded walkways to the people who value ... value over everything else. Both options would confused the other group though. The people who can't afford Starcruiser think it's a waste of time, and the people who paid so much to be at Disney World don't want to wait 90 minutes for Space Mountain.

What’s not being talked about nearly enough is they have absolutely nothing in the pipeline…

It’s gonna get salty about that around these parts very soon.

Yeah and this is part of that disconnect with the fans. The fans seem to almost demand new attraction development, just so they have something to read on these boards. It's a very narrow segment of the overall Disney audience that are checking in for those weekly construction updates.

It will take 4 or 5 years still for people to plan and book trips to go see Runaway Railway. Probably another 4 or 5 years after Tron opens for that to start slowing down too.

Disneyland went 24 years between Indiana Jones and SWGE opening, with two small minor additions in between. They will survive.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

SWGE took about 3 years of construction, and probably would have been done sooner if they ROTR was functioning properly. So they can build big things quicker if they want to. I guess I'd consider it more of a delay tactic than a "response".

But they overpromised and undelivered that…so i don’t know if you want to go that route.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah and this is part of that disconnect with the fans. The fans seem to almost demand new attraction development, just so they have something to read on these boards. It's a very narrow segment of the overall Disney audience that are checking in for those weekly construction updates.

It will take 4 or 5 years still for people to plan and book trips to go see Runaway Railway. Probably another 4 or 5 years after Tron opens for that to start slowing down too.

Disneyland went 24 years between Indiana Jones and SWGE opening, with two small minor additions in between. They will survive.

You got the wrong cat here, sailor…which you know.

I’m not saying that most travelers are clamoring for construction updates…

…but old is old and theme parks do need updates to stay popular…even Disney.

The belief that “most” travelers are one and done and don’t care Is not accurate…so these things still do matter.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Don't those two statements cancel out? If Disney management has found a way that their customers will completely tolerate any price increases without question, then they've certainly performed masterfully at their task.

I don't really think that's true though. I think the management is actually good at listening to what their customers want and providing more options for the broader audience. It just seems confusing to the fans on the extreme side of the spectrum, because what the broader audience wants, is not what they want.

You think of it this way: They can offer a premium experience for a high price (like Starcruiser) and satisfy the needs of the well-to-do people who value the experience. Or they can offer a cheap park experience with long lines and crowded walkways to the people who value ... value over everything else. Both options would confused the other group though. The people who can't afford Starcruiser think it's a waste of time, and the people who paid so much to be at Disney World don't want to wait 90 minutes for Space Mountain.




Yeah and this is part of that disconnect with the fans. The fans seem to almost demand new attraction development, just so they have something to read on these boards. It's a very narrow segment of the overall Disney audience that are checking in for those weekly construction updates.

It will take 4 or 5 years still for people to plan and book trips to go see Runaway Railway. Probably another 4 or 5 years after Tron opens for that to start slowing down too.

Disneyland went 24 years between Indiana Jones and SWGE opening, with two small minor additions in between. They will survive.

But shouldn’t we expect world class instead of just surviving? Great Josh, I can wear earrings now and show off my Homer Simpson tattoo, how inclusive. Oh and don’t forget those charging pods in the break room! Where’s the attention to details that made Disney, Disney? Where’s the pride? If Josh really wants to make a difference I want to see him walking the park and looking at the operation, not posing for photos. I want him to put on his “Disney Dad” shirt, park at the ticket center and schlep it across the swamp on duct taped monorails with the masses of crocs and tank tops and see how frustrating it is to try and order chicken nuggets with a REAL LIVE cast member. I also want him to apologize to the 10,000 disney store cast members that were all fired after being lied to about their stores not closing. I love working for this company, but they really are in a mess right now, and it’s becoming more and more apparent to the average guest.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Add a third one: amazing management. I know that's going to come off as sarcastic, but it's not.

Disney has been amazing at running their parks. Their parks business is nearing 70 years old now and has never been stronger. That's not just unheard of in the theme park world, but it's fairly rare in the corporate world, period.



The flaw in this assumption is thinking that Disney can't ever change/react to customer demands, and it's exactly that ability to change (to "turn on a dime" as Eisner used to say) that is Disney's strongest management tool. The current changes that have riled the fans up so much, were being undertaken (by Iger mostly) due to perceived problems with over crowding and demand. Raising prices curbs demand. Being able to say "let's try something different" is also a fairly rare thing in the corporate world, and certainly in this case Disney deserves the credit for trying.

If it doesn't work out, they can always go back to offering cheap discounted admission, and fill the parks up to whatever hte market will bear. The experience might be less, but if the audience really wants to prioritize cheap entry over experience, then Disney can change back and cater to them.

It's pretty unlikely that Disney will falter due to poor management. Climate change and localization will probably destroy the tourism industry before Disney runs out of steam.

Disney certainly can change their quality output. But reputation is not something that “turns on a dime”. It takes time to change.

And if they want to fight “IP Wars”, they are surely going to lose. Universal just has access to more of the most popular media franchises, and this is going to become clear 5 to 10 years into the run of Epic Universe. Part of the reason is that Disney is reluctant to even touch an ever growing entertainment medium (video games) that Universal is now openly embracing. If they wait to long, and Uni keeps scooping up the franchises, how will they compete?

 

[Horizons '83]

Disney certainly can change their quality output. But reputation is not something that “turns on a dime”. It takes time to change.

And if they want to fight “IP Wars”, they are surely going to lose. Universal just has access to more of the most popular media franchises, and this is going to become clear 5 to 10 years into the run of Epic Universe. Part of the reason is that Disney is reluctant to even touch an ever growing entertainment medium (video games) that Universal is now openly embracing. If they wait to long, and Uni keeps scooping up the franchises, how will they compete?

Nostalgia is what they are banking on, and at some point, like you said, they will lose.

I'd only offer that they can compete by creating truly unique attractions/experiences NOT tie to purchased IP's.

 

[mightynine]

In my opinion, Disney thinks they'll create the IPs that'll end up in their theme parks.

The problem is the timeframe to turn those around into theme-park attractions means they'll be possibly out-of-date by the time they land in the parks.

For example, all the Frozen stuff in the parks has nothing of Frozen II, your Spider-Man attraction is already outdated based on where the character is in the MCU, Star Wars Land is tied to characters that certainly aren't on your merch...to me, tying everything to IP invites that dated feel even faster than something you developed from whole cloth for the parks that could actually be truly timeless and truly Disney, to coin a phrase.

 

[WDWJoeG]

Josh would certainly get points taken away for whatever involvement he had in Lake Nona or Ken Potrock.

And this is what is so amusing about this dynamic. Josh is the Chairman of the parks so he has 100% for the responsibility of these decisions. You can't have it both ways, either he is the Chairman and has responsibility for it all or he's just a puppet and sent out to take selfies for a living.

I've never seen people twist themselves to avoid placing blame on the executive for what falls under their control.

He owns it all, good, bad, and Genie+. It comes with the job.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And this is what is so amusing about this dynamic. Josh is the Chairman of the parks so he has 100% for the responsibility of these decisions. You can't have it both ways, either he is the Chairman and has responsibility for it all or he's just a puppet and sent out to take selfies for a living.

I've never seen people twist themselves to avoid placing blame on the executive for what falls under their control.

He owns it all, good, bad, and Genie+. It comes with the job.

My sense is “puppet”…just have a feeling…

I have a feeling this guy would never push for cap ex or operations programs/procedures that would increase the appeal of the parks…which is all you really want from that position.

 

[castlecake2.0]

My sense is “puppet”…just have a feeling…

I have a feeling this guy would never push for cap ex or operations programs/procedures that would increase the appeal of the parks…which is all you really want from that position.

The parks have been reopened almost two years and this guy hasn’t even been able to get parking trams fully back. Anyone who thinks this guy is what we need right now is insane.

 

[WDWJoeG]

The parks have been reopened almost two years and this guy hasn’t even been able to get parking trams fully back. Anyone who thinks this guy is what we need right now is insane.

No, no, you don't get it. THAT is Chapek's fault! You think the Chairman of Parks & Resorts has the power to fix that?! I mean, yes, of course when Chapek had that title, it was 100% his fault, but now that Josh is in charge, well, what's he supposed to do?!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The parks have been reopened almost two years and this guy hasn’t even been able to get parking trams fully back. Anyone who thinks this guy is what we need right now is insane.

No, no, you don't get it. THAT is Chapek's fault! You think the Chairman of Parks & Resorts has the power to fix that?! I mean, yes, of course when Chapek had that title, it was 100% his fault, but now that Josh is in charge, well, what's he supposed to do?!

To be fair…ole skinny jeans has zero purse string power. You can thank Eisner for that…because it was eliminated 20 years ago.

The ceo/board approves every penny…that’s the culture now. They don’t sign checks…but underlings know not to approve anything or they’re out. What would the stockholders think?

It’s why chapek as “parks head” is a joke too…Iger dictated every cent. The last two to even mention it were rasulo and staggs. But they didn’t make the calls.

Parks head is more like a forensic accountant now. And this one takes selfies too

 

[el_super]

Where’s the pride? If Josh really wants to make a difference I want to see him walking the park and looking at the operation, not posing for photos. I want him to put on his “Disney Dad” shirt, park at the ticket center and schlep it across the swamp on duct taped monorails with the masses of crocs and tank tops and see how frustrating it is to try and order chicken nuggets with a REAL LIVE cast member.

Couple issues with this...

For an executive at Josh's level, this is one of those double-edged-sword problems that can't easily be solved. Going out into the park and getting feedback is good, but he also has to trust the executives and leaders that are tasked with solving these issues at the lower level. Dropping in and solving one issue, can just alienate the mid level leaders, precipitate a long list of "what about this other issues" complaints, and even come off as somewhat insincere to the fans/audience.

The fans will still demand fixes to tangible things that impact them directly... that usually means something directly related to the daily operation of the parks/resorts, but at Josh's level, he has to have responsibility for so much more that the audience doesn't see.

That sort of leads to issue two... even if Josh wants to solve all the problems, and is sincere in his desire to make the parks better, his hands are still completely tied but budgets and accounting. If customers/guests keep insisting on value over experience, then that is exactly the type of product Josh will have to offer, regardless of whatever direction he wants to take. Absolutely no point in steering the ship against the current.

And if they want to fight “IP Wars”, they are surely going to lose. Universal just has access to more of the most popular media franchises, and this is going to become clear 5 to 10 years into the run of Epic Universe.

Maybe today, but 5 to 10 years from now, Disney could still be producing IP where Universal will still be seeking to buy. Lack of IP is not a problem for Disney.

The problem is the timeframe to turn those around into theme-park attractions means they'll be possibly out-of-date by the time they land in the parks.

Splash Mountain was added to Disneyland, 43 years after it was released in theaters.

And this is what is so amusing about this dynamic. Josh is the Chairman of the parks so he has 100% for the responsibility of these decisions. You can't have it both ways, either he is the Chairman and has responsibility for it all or he's just a puppet and sent out to take selfies for a living.

Nothing is that clear cut. Josh can definitely have come into the role, with long term plans in motion for Lake Nona, that he had almost no input on and no real ability to stop. Other things could be completely driven by him. We have no way of knowing.

 

[WDWJoeG]

Couple issues with this...

For an executive at Josh's level, this is one of those double-edged-sword problems that can't easily be solved. Going out into the park and getting feedback is good, but he also has to trust the executives and leaders that are tasked with solving these issues at the lower level. Dropping in and solving one issue, can just alienate the mid level leaders, precipitate a long list of "what about this other issues" complaints, and even come off as somewhat insincere to the fans/audience.

The fans will still demand fixes to tangible things that impact them directly... that usually means something directly related to the daily operation of the parks/resorts, but at Josh's level, he has to have responsibility for so much more that the audience doesn't see.

That sort of leads to issue two... even if Josh wants to solve all the problems, and is sincere in his desire to make the parks better, his hands are still completely tied but budgets and accounting. If customers/guests keep insisting on value over experience, then that is exactly the type of product Josh will have to offer, regardless of whatever direction he wants to take. Absolutely no point in steering the ship against the current.






Maybe today, but 5 to 10 years from now, Disney could still be producing IP where Universal will still be seeking to buy. Lack of IP is not a problem for Disney.




Splash Mountain was added to Disneyland, 43 years after it was released in theaters.




Nothing is that clear cut. Josh can definitely have come into the role, with long term plans in motion for Lake Nona, that he had almost no input on and no real ability to stop. Other things could be completely driven by him. We have no way of knowing.

And yet, when it was Pressler, Chapek, pick your villain, it was completely known.

Funny how that works.