Rumor Hollywood insiders say there's growing tension at Disney as CEO Bob Chapek chafes at Bob Iger's 'long goodbye'

[pdude81]

Surprising that the article that started all this didn't delve into Chapek's anger at the Board of Directors. They had to have approved of 'the mentoring' deal.

I thought him continuing through the end of his contract term was part of the Fox deal. I can't find the details on that, so hopefully someone else here more in tune with that deal can say if I'm off my rocker or not.

That would require him to be in charge, even if he were afraid to be in charge while the ship was sinking.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Correct…but the problem with physical things like parks and cruise ships is they require constant refresh for relevancy…

So it’s a very quick turn/drop if they become “not the place to go”

Disney has operated for 15 years…when you look at average capex/investment as if the label is really the only thing that matters. They get a lot of rope because of that…but not limitless.

We could be 3 years away from a competitor offering 3 parks with more sexy draws than Disney’s 4. And a nice collection of high quality hotels that have advantages over Disney hotels.

That will continue to erode.

Anybody have any indication Slaphead could handle addressing that?

That’s right…zero

If they continue to goof off like the hare, the tortoise will catch them (and it’s looking like that will be pretty soon).

 

[Brer Oswald]

I think you're forgetting two important little words.

Unprecedented DEMAND.

There's no possible way the money making machine that is Disney Parks can ever fail. I mean the sheer amount of arrogance alone embodied by Disney execs will protect them from anything!

Their success is based on two things: reputation and well known brands (IP).

If they destroy their reputation for quality, and their IP is less relevant than the competition (Mickey, Star Wars, and Princesses vs Mario, Spider-Man, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Pokémon), then how can they expect to maintain their lead?

Though I detect sarcasm from your last sentence, there are people that fully believe there’s no chance they will ever come in second.

 

[monothingie]

Though I detect sarcasm from your last sentence, there are people that fully believe there’s no chance they will ever come in second.

It is dripping with so much sarcasm you need a mop.

The prices have reached such a ridiculous level that even the media, who once feared The House of Mouse, are now openly taking shots at the sacred cash cow theme parks. This is the end result of Iger and Chapek's "leadership" which has resulted in nothing but cutbacks, nickel and diming, price increases, loss in quality. They have managed to destroy a reputation that took decades to build, and can not easily be put back together again. People are finally seeing that behind it all, the emperor wears no clothes.

@Sirwalterraleigh am I doing it right?

 

[Rickcat96]

It's obvious-the current management team is not on the same page, absolutely disconnected from the consumer's they serve, Iger referred consumers as the "market place" anywhere he could adjust pricing to make more $-with zero regard whether the brand could survive any mistreatment.

It matters not- who is in charge-nothing will change if and when Cappie is replaced- Wont get rid of Genie, parking fee's, add more rides, staff the parks etc. What will change the direction is a bad recession, war or more folks vote with their wallets.

 

[pdude81]

Correct…but the problem with physical things like parks and cruise ships is they require constant refresh for relevancy…

So it’s a very quick turn/drop if they become “not the place to go”

Disney has operated for 15 years…when you look at average capex/investment as if the label is really the only thing that matters. They get a lot of rope because of that…but not limitless.

We could be 3 years away from a competitor offering 3 parks with more sexy draws than Disney’s 4. And a nice collection of high quality hotels that have advantages over Disney hotels.

That will continue to erode.

Anybody have any indication Slaphead could handle addressing that?

That’s right…zero

I think there is an idealized world here where he's been building up the margins early on and slow rolling construction so that they can announce a big infusion and major additions in a few years. Now again this would take a lot of assumptions, but I can see him waiting until Epic Universe is nearly completed, wait to see what their new hotel offerings are, and how Uni plans to manage their annual passes moving forward, to make a big move and announce a bunch of new stuff to steal their thunder.

It's not going to stop huge numbers of people from going to check out Super Mario World, but it might hold off a chunk of those once-in-a-lifetime family vacationers to wait it out longer. Right now they are way behind in the new/fresh category. Now he could absolutely just be looking to pump up the stock price in case they decide to throw him overboard, but these bigger margins and paid ride skips allow him to pitch a new land as a money maker and not just the cost of doing business.

And yes, I have to twist myself into a pretzel to make this work.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Not sure what some think Chapek did at P&R other than raise prices and reduce quality/services. BTW - he was there for over 5 years, not exactly a "very very short time". Josh has overseen... pretty much the same things. Except he's adored by many because he takes selfies with stans and fanbois and appear personable. Being the polar opposite of the previous crap peddler isn't a bad thing, but it's also not exactly a ringing endorsement of one's abilities. Remember - He signs off on it all. No AP's? Josh approved. Price increases? Josh approved.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think there is an idealized world here where he's been building up the margins early on and slow rolling construction so that they can announce a big infusion and major additions in a few years. Now again this would take a lot of assumptions, but I can see him waiting until Epic Universe is nearly completed, wait to see what their new hotel offerings are, and how Uni plans to manage their annual passes moving forward, to make a big move and announce a bunch of new stuff to steal their thunder.

It's not going to stop huge numbers of people from going to check out Super Mario World, but it might hold off a chunk of those once-in-a-lifetime family vacationers to wait it out longer. Right now they are way behind in the new/fresh category. Now he could absolutely just be looking to pump up the stock price in case they decide to throw him overboard, but these bigger margins and paid ride skips allow him to pitch a new land as a money maker and not just the cost of doing business.

And yes, I have to twist myself into a pretzel to make this work.

In order to have any “response”…you need 5 years of lead time. So if things aren’t underway by 2023, you have no “response”.

Math is fun!

 

[el_super]

Their success is based on two things: reputation and well known brands (IP).

Add a third one: amazing management. I know that's going to come off as sarcastic, but it's not.

Disney has been amazing at running their parks. Their parks business is nearing 70 years old now and has never been stronger. That's not just unheard of in the theme park world, but it's fairly rare in the corporate world, period.

If they destroy their reputation for quality, and their IP is less relevant than the competition (Mickey, Star Wars, and Princesses vs Mario, Spider-Man, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Pokémon), then how can they expect to maintain their lead?

The flaw in this assumption is thinking that Disney can't ever change/react to customer demands, and it's exactly that ability to change (to "turn on a dime" as Eisner used to say) that is Disney's strongest management tool. The current changes that have riled the fans up so much, were being undertaken (by Iger mostly) due to perceived problems with over crowding and demand. Raising prices curbs demand. Being able to say "let's try something different" is also a fairly rare thing in the corporate world, and certainly in this case Disney deserves the credit for trying.

If it doesn't work out, they can always go back to offering cheap discounted admission, and fill the parks up to whatever hte market will bear. The experience might be less, but if the audience really wants to prioritize cheap entry over experience, then Disney can change back and cater to them.

It's pretty unlikely that Disney will falter due to poor management. Climate change and localization will probably destroy the tourism industry before Disney runs out of steam.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not sure what some think Chapek did at P&R other than raise prices and reduce quality/services. BTW - he was there for over 5 years, not exactly a "very very short time". Josh has overseen... pretty much the same things. Except he's adored by many because he takes selfies with stans and fanbois and appear personable. Being the polar opposite of the previous crap peddler isn't a bad thing, but it's also not exactly a ringing endorsement of one's abilities. Remember - He signs off on it all. No AP's? Josh approved. Price increases? Josh approved.

I tend to agree…they both concentrate on how to run the spin machine to charge more while avoiding an expansion of offerings and services.

Did anyone think in 2020 that it would perhaps 2023 to get what they did pre-shutdown up?

And a lot of that is actors - which they’ve waged a private wage war against…not reduced staffing in the world showcase because IPs aren’t available.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Add a third one: amazing management. I know that's going to come off as sarcastic, but it's not.

Disney has been amazing at running their parks. Their parks business is nearing 70 years old now and has never been stronger. That's not just unheard of in the theme park world, but it's fairly rare in the corporate world, period.

It’s not “sarcastic”…it’s incorrect.

They have certainly “been stronger”. You’re misreading pent up travel demand as proof of good product/management.

Those parks run IN SPITE of themselves and have had really bad management for 20+ years. Resorts are similar…they just “go”…it’s the label more than the substance.

Once the covid money is cleared…you may be surprised. You may get your lower attendance than Iger lied about long ago…and then a crisis on how to reverse it?

 

[el_super]

Not sure what some think Chapek did at P&R other than raise prices and reduce quality/services. BTW - he was there for over 5 years, not exactly a "very very short time". Josh has overseen... pretty much the same things. Except he's adored by many because he takes selfies with stans and fanbois and appear personable. Being the polar opposite of the previous crap peddler isn't a bad thing, but it's also not exactly a ringing endorsement of one's abilities. Remember - He signs off on it all. No AP's? Josh approved. Price increases? Josh approved.

I don't consider myself a fan of Josh so much, but if you've heard him speak, or been to one of his town halls... you would know he's a pretty capable communicator. His communication style is engaging and effective, and it's important to remember that his enthusiasm, does translate to Cast Members.

While I don't think there is anything really wrong with fans wondering, from a fan perspective, what he's done for them, it's important to remember that Cast Member morale in general, is still really important to the company (or at least it was until last week).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't consider myself a fan of Josh so much, but if you've heard him speak, or been to one of his town halls... you would know he's a pretty capable communicator. His communication style is engaging and effective, and it's important to remember that his enthusiasm, does translate to Cast Members.

While I don't think there is anything really wrong with fans wondering, from a fan perspective, what he's done for them, it's important to remember that Cast Member morale in general, is still really important to the company (or at least it was until last week).

Woah…Dust Flakes or Dusty Charms?

…I’m half kidding. It is important and he is way more personable than egghead…

But the old Dogs I talk to occasionally…who are far more accurate/critical than a kid that showed up last week from North Dakota State…seem to think it’s a hoax too.

The CMs have had this belief in “trickle down” (always where the stupidity begins) in their parks to their pockets for along time. The Bobs let it happen: “prices are good for the Company”…but they’re +12 from the last recession and have begun to drink their own koolaid. Eyes were opened some during the
Vid - I’m told - and Josh love is a diversion/desperation tactic.

 

[el_super]

Those parks run IN SPITE of themselves and have had really bad management for 20+ years.

It's not incorrect, and this statement proves it. I'm referencing literally 20 to 30 years of "Disney has lost their way" /"the parks can't survive like this" / "Universal is catching up fast!" commentary from the fan community. If it's been 30 years, and Universal hasn't caught up, how much longer is it going to be? Another 30? Maybe 60?

I know the pandemic has confused the numbers, but it's not as if we were looking at several consecutive years of mediocre attendance at the parks. We weren't seeing failing revenue numbers before the pandemic.

When it comes down to it: if the management was so bad, they'd have to be replaced or the company would go under. A company doesn't survive 20 years with bad management.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's not incorrect, and this statement proves it. I'm referencing literally 20 to 30 years of "Disney has lost their way" /"the parks can't survive like this" / "Universal is catching up fast!" commentary from the fan community. If it's been 30 years, and Universal hasn't caught up, how much longer is it going to be? Another 30? Maybe 60?

I know the pandemic has confused the numbers, but it's not as if we were looking at several consecutive years of mediocre attendance at the parks. We weren't seeing failing revenue numbers before the pandemic.

When it comes down to it: if the management was so bad, they'd have to be replaced or the company would go under. A company doesn't survive 20 years with bad management.

They are badly run. Because people have decided it’s hip to blow more money there does NOT equate better management. The analysis of it is just background noise. It’s a false equivalency.

Star wars 7 was a terrible movie…and it made $2.066 billion at the box office. It was more of a “thing” than a quality thing. Disney parks are on that kinda trajectory. If you invite the frivolous spender…they are true to their name and will move on. That was the essence of the park research Disney collected in the 20th century. And why they operated NOT resting on their laurels.

Times change…but not everything.

That’s why this management is bad…they feed the frivolity and have no personal strings attached. Bad combo

And I said park management was bad…rhe corporate management was pretty stable until last year. Parks are a piece…a big one…but a piece. Iger made hay buying IP and courting the Chinese…he did next to nothing in his flagship parks for 12 years…the effects of which will continue for years to come.

What do you got after Tron? At that point Pandora will be 8 years old and you have a 5 year construction lead time.

Whaddaya got?

 

[el_super]

But the old Dogs I talk to occasionally…who are far more accurate/critical than a kid that showed up last week from North Dakota State…seem to think it’s a hoax too.

It's not a hoax... it's just not as important to some people over others.

It seems pretty clear now that the parks pivot toward diversity and inclusion, is something that Josh feels pretty strongly about, and most likely has been the champion of, from the beginning. Obvious now that didn't come from Chapek. That pivot toward diversity and inclusion is something that is really important to cast morale, and it's something that has been widely praised about Disney.

I won't say for sure that Josh was absolutely responsible, but while Josh has been leading the parks division, there have been significant gains in CM Pay and working conditions. He spent the money for a new E ticket on breakroom refurbishments at Disneyland, and of course they introduced new programs for child care and education too (Disney Aspire). Josh was also on the forefront of repairing the relationship with the City of Anaheim after that whole fiasco.

Sure they don't translate into tangible gains for the guests, but obviously having CMs be proud of where they work has to account for something right?

 

[HauntedPirate]

I don't consider myself a fan of Josh so much, but if you've heard him speak, or been to one of his town halls... you would know he's a pretty capable communicator. His communication style is engaging and effective, and it's important to remember that his enthusiasm, does translate to Cast Members.

While I don't think there is anything really wrong with fans wondering, from a fan perspective, what he's done for them, it's important to remember that Cast Member morale in general, is still really important to the company (or at least it was until last week).

That is a very valid point. He is definitely a good speaker and personable to CM's, I didn't mean to imply otherwise (even though I probably did!).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's not a hoax... it's just not as important to some people over others.

It seems pretty clear now that the parks pivot toward diversity and inclusion, is something that Josh feels pretty strongly about, and most likely has been the champion of, from the beginning. Obvious now that didn't come from Chapek. That pivot toward diversity and inclusion is something that is really important to cast morale, and it's something that has been widely praised about Disney.

I won't say for sure that Josh was absolutely responsible, but while Josh has been leading the parks division, there have been significant gains in CM Pay and working conditions. He spent the money for a new E ticket on breakroom refurbishments at Disneyland, and of course they introduced new programs for child care and education too (Disney Aspire). Josh was also on the forefront of repairing the relationship with the City of Anaheim after that whole fiasco.

Sure they don't translate into tangible gains for the guests, but obviously having CMs be proud of where they work has to account for something right?

I agree with some of what you’re saying…

But I gotta admit I’m having a hard time with the “Josh” stuff.

He’s just like pressler…and unfortunately I’ve had the displeasure. Some of the middle managers have a suspicion he’s using those selfies as a “jump point” to a corporate head somewhere in the evolving social media world.

More power to him…but it makes the routine less than genuine right now.

 

[pdude81]

In order to have any “response”…you need 5 years of lead time. So if things aren’t underway by 2023, you have no “response”.

Math is fun!

This covid construction delay is embarrassing, and seems designed for them to have the "newest" stuff until 2025. I can't believe they have no ideas/proposals for new rides and lands at the ready . The problem is and always was getting the green light to announce and build.

SWGE took about 3 years of construction, and probably would have been done sooner if they ROTR was functioning properly. So they can build big things quicker if they want to. I guess I'd consider it more of a delay tactic than a "response".

 

[el_super]

They are badly run. Because people have decided it’s hip to blow more money there does NOT equate better management. The analysis of it is just background noise. It’s a false equivalency.

Sure they are badly run, and we will all still be here in another 20 years claiming the sky is falling.

What do you got after Tron? At that point Pandora will be 8 years old and you have a 5 year construction lead time.

If they end up needing new attractions, they can build them, and certainly they can built them in less than five years.

There's a lot that can be said in assuming that Disney needs to keep building attractions, or that they can only build them on a ridiculous timeline. Don't make the mistake of thinking that being slow is a fault rather than a choice. It's a choice they can afford to make.