Disneysea05
Well-Known Member
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HKDL gets new castle, frozen land and marvel land.
- Thread starter Kiwiduck
- Start date
Burgower1994
Well-Known Member
I thinking some Marvel experience in space mountain or stitch encounter
Disneylover152
Well-Known Member
If they overlay Stitch and Space Mountain, they might as well retheme the orbitron ride and rename Tomorrowland "Marvel Superhero Land" lol
No Name
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Is there any way to see the development plan? Where do you find it?
MKeeler
Well-Known Member
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
Interesting chatter going about this expansion and the park in general. Anyone in the know feel free to correct and chime in:
Takeaway:
1. Looking doubtful this proposal will get through LegCo. Public and government are against what they see as subsidizing TWDC.
2. If HKDL doesn't get attendance to a certain level (8 million), by a certain date (2023), it will lose the 5-year extension (to 2028) to develop a 2nd Gate on the landfill across the esplanade.
3. 2nd Gate Pad seen as being wasted right now; some in Govt calling for it to be developed ASAP - by Disney or any other entity.
4. LegCo's rejection/postponement could be first step in a negotiation. HKers think Disney should foot the entire bill of future expansion despite it being a joint venture (they feel they were ripped off by Disney/Eisner in the beginning). If Disney does, they will only do so in exchange for greater equity - that might be a little easier for Hong Kongers to swallow.
5. If everything were to be built as planned - and for some reason attendance still didn't get to 8mil - it would be doubly disastrous for HKDL & TWDC, as the 2nd Gate Pad would likely be developed outside TWDC
6. WDI is in a situation where they must build rides that drive significant attendance (Iron Man has the potential to be a dud, and if it is, it will only further LegCo's resistance to investment). No room/time for failure.
Takeaway:
1. Looking doubtful this proposal will get through LegCo. Public and government are against what they see as subsidizing TWDC.
2. If HKDL doesn't get attendance to a certain level (8 million), by a certain date (2023), it will lose the 5-year extension (to 2028) to develop a 2nd Gate on the landfill across the esplanade.
3. 2nd Gate Pad seen as being wasted right now; some in Govt calling for it to be developed ASAP - by Disney or any other entity.
4. LegCo's rejection/postponement could be first step in a negotiation. HKers think Disney should foot the entire bill of future expansion despite it being a joint venture (they feel they were ripped off by Disney/Eisner in the beginning). If Disney does, they will only do so in exchange for greater equity - that might be a little easier for Hong Kongers to swallow.
5. If everything were to be built as planned - and for some reason attendance still didn't get to 8mil - it would be doubly disastrous for HKDL & TWDC, as the 2nd Gate Pad would likely be developed outside TWDC
6. WDI is in a situation where they must build rides that drive significant attendance (Iron Man has the potential to be a dud, and if it is, it will only further LegCo's resistance to investment). No room/time for failure.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
This was exactly what happened with the last round of expansion (Toy Story Land, Grizzly Gulch, Mystic Point), but the Government of Hong Kong has since increased its ownership stake.
DDLand
Well-Known Member
This all comes at a time when LegCo is in the middle of a total disaster. I wonder if there will be the political strength to push this through. Should be an interesting fight.
If Disney can't get this through, it will be humiliating for the company and government. I imagine they'll be pushing this really hard. The Commerce Secretary said he was unfazed by the pushback, but getting shot down in committee could not have been their goal.
I couldn't remember which year the contract started, but I checked up and it starts 2000. Disney is currently on year 16 of a 20 year contract to purchase the phase 2 property. It's a little less urgent than you may think though. Disney has an automatic right to extend their right to purchase by 5 years or until 2025 with no attendance projections necessary. It's the second 5 year extension that require the ongoing 8 million a year attendance, or to extend until 2030. Disney has said they want to be at 9.5 Million in 2025 well above the 8 million mark.
Here's a quote with the details:
"She said that under the Project Agreement, HKITP [WDC and HKSAR joint venture] had [been] given an option to buy the Phase 2 site. The option was valid for 20 years from 2000, with an automatic right to extend for further five years and a conditional right to extend for further five years. The conditional right could be exercised if the annual attendance of the theme park had reached 8 million."
If all goes according to Disney's plan, it won't have to build phase 2 until 2030. Legally it seems like the Government does have it's hands tied.
I also think you're absolutely correct on the expectations for this thing, especially for the Marvel Attraction. While I personally don't like Marvel taking over Tomorrowland, I'm expecting this attraction to be one of the best ever designed. The project scope should be massive. The foot print is enormous, and it should steal the show.
The Frozenland reminds me of New Fantasyland. Pretty, but not tons of substance.
Edit: Something just crossed my mind. The phase 2 property will be leased by the holding company that Walt Disney Co. has a minority share in. What would truly be interesting is if LegCo was able to pressure the government into releasing the land in 3ish years. As majority owner that would be the government's prerogative. That would be a blow. A theme park built directly across from Disneyland that isn't Disney.
Not that this will happen, but it actually does seem that this could be worked out. They do have leverage.
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RandySavage
Well-Known Member
I wonder if there are any within Disney that see this as a desirable outcome: no investment required and a new attraction to draw customers to its Lantau hotels and lagging park.
No Name
Well-Known Member
I personally like the fact that they're making it taller. The castle right now is the same as DL's original. I don't like copies. Wouldn't it be nice if each "castle park" could be identified by its own unique castle?
And while the short classic may look, well, "classy," many locals (and some in the HK Gov) see it differently. They see it as a reminder that their park is smaller than the brand new Shanghai park, and that never feels good, especially in China. They feel like they got the smaller end of the stick.
So I like this. But you may not have to worry. Who knows when, if ever, the plans get government approval?
DLR92
Well-Known Member
Sure they are. So are MK castle and Tokyo Disneyland.
But the rendering just make it look too much for the smallest magic kingdom style park. Which is why I don't mind the current one. But if they insist to make sure it more unique, I think it should be small but a little larger footprint and a bit tad taller is perfect. I would think something based on Le Château de Vigny, I wouldn't be so opposed to then. HKDL is so similar to DL. Both are small and limited with land given. But that rendering is just too tall and tacky.
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
I quite like the renderings and really hope the major castle change goes forward as I think it is critical to giving the growing park a unique & impressive identity on both the local and worldwide stages. I say leave the unoriginal, unimpressive & dinky castle (adjectives which also apply to HKDL phase one park) in the past and usher in a brighter, grander future for the park.
2351metalcloud
Active Member
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
So the one thing I noticed from the Legco map above is that the show building for the new FEA is significantly different shape (and larger by a good 30-40%) than the one in Epcot.
I'm ok with FEA if it gets the Shanghai Pan-esque treatment. Ie improve capacity, revisit and spruce up some scenes. Maybe add a scene or two.
Just as long as it doesn't go the head-scratchingly awful Mermaid NFL route. Then I'll be on board. Fortunately we could always tell the Mermaid show building was a copy from the get go. This clearly is not.
orlando678-
Well-Known Member
So we are getting another frozen ever after
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
So the one thing I noticed from the Legco map above is that the show building for the new FEA is significantly different shape (and larger by a good 30-40%) than the one in Epcot.
I'm ok with FEA if it gets the Shanghai Pan-esque treatment. Ie improve capacity, revisit and spruce up some scenes. Maybe add a scene or two.
Just as long as it doesn't go the head-scratchingly awful Mermaid NFL route. Then I'll be on board. Fortunately we could always tell the Mermaid show building was a copy from the get go. This clearly is not.
Odd thing about that plan is both the Grizzly coaster layout and Mystic Point are different than what was actually built....