Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World

[networkpro]

I don't have the clearest understanding here but the convention site is not far from Disney property. Maybe there's hope that Brighline, Sunrail and Disney can still make the last hop possible eventually, a centralized spot that will benefit resort guests flying in from MCO.

It would be purely coincidental if that were to occur. As you see from the Brightline statement, its about connecting economic and employment centers as it is a privately operated inter-city rail service. Sunrail is a short north-south Orlando commuter rail that currently stops at Sand Lake and DeBary.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It would be purely coincidental if that were to occur. As you see from the Brightline statement, its about connecting economic and employment centers as it is a privately operated inter-city rail service. Sunrail is a short north-south Orlando commuter rail that currently stops at Sand Lake and DeBary.

SunRail goes all the way down to Poinciana. This new route was designed to facilitate an east-west expansion. The plan is that SunRail, not Brightline, would own this section of tracks.

 

[O-Town]

Now I will say... we don’t know what discussions were happening behind closed doors... it could be that part of the agreement for having a station on Disney property is that brightline operates Disney - MCO shuttles hourly, etc. This new route will not only go past competition, it will also be slower and less direct.

That’s total speculation of course.

The new route was the original one planned by the Florida Overland Express back in the late ’90s. Disney had a hand in killing the entire plan because it was to stop at the much smaller convention center, along with Sea World and the soon to expand Universal Studios Escape. (Remember that?)

I understand why Disney is doing what they are doing, but it isn’t right to cut off the entire region from South Florida. We need the Sun Rail connection because we have already invested in that, and it needs to connect to South Florida and the airport to survive.

 

[MrPromey]

Brightline doesn’t want to transport people from the airport to local destinations. For them, Epic Universe and Convention Center might be as appealing as Disney, but probably not.

It definitely makes more sense for sunrail, which is why we are here.

The soon-to-be-expanding-even-more convention center and that area appeals to business travelers more so than Disney, I'd think and that might be seen as a more stable customer base for something like this.

Disney may be a huge draw but it's one property and one audience.

Politically, with the current mood in Florida, it might have also been seen as the safer bet to align themselves more with a larger pool of local business support that appears to feed not only more directly into the local economy but also in a more diverse way than just a single business - even one as big as Disney - would.

For reasons both earned and unearned, there are growing segments of the local population that are becoming less and less enamored with Disney as both an attraction and a neighbor.

 

[MrPromey]

I don't have the clearest understanding here but the convention site is not far from Disney property. Maybe there's hope that Brighline, Sunrail and Disney can still make the last hop possible eventually, a centralized spot that will benefit resort guests flying in from MCO.

I think Disney would only cooperate with this plan if they felt they were forced to by overwhelming circumstance or if they got a specific benifit like a direct route diretly from the airport to them and back.

No way they will be happy about being a secondary destination in any central Florida transportation scheme.

 

[Lilofan]

The soon-to-be-expanding-even-more convention center and that area appeals to business travelers more so than Disney, I'd think and that might be seen as a more stable customer base for something like this.

Disney may be a huge draw but it's one property and one audience.

Politically, with the current mood in Florida, it might have also been seen as the safer bet to align themselves more with a larger pool of local business support that appears to feed not only more directly into the local economy but also in a more diverse way than just a single business - even one as big as Disney - would.

For reasons both earned and unearned, there are growing segments of the local population that are becoming less and less enamored with Disney as both an attraction and a neighbor.

Unhappy perhaps , but there would be no Orlando and its growth without the Mouse.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Does RCID figure into this in any way?

 

[AndyS2992]

Was super excited for this, would make airport and Universal transfers so much easier and faster but no, can't have nice things can we

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

All this talk about transportation from the airport makes me wonder how much Disney paid per passenger for Magical Express, ridership was a little over 2 million a year so if it was $10 a person (each way) they spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $40 million a year. It ran for about 11 years so about $440 million dollars, about what a monorail from MCO to Epcot would have cost (at $20 million a mile).

Disney should have personally built a monorail or light rail years ago, it would have paid for itself already.

Edited to add… depending on the website it looks like monorail cost estimates vary from $15 million a km (on websites promoting monorails) to $140 million a mile (on websites promoting light rail) so the $20 million may be unrealistic.

 

[MrPromey]

Unhappy perhaps , but there would be no Orlando and it’s growth without the Mouse.

If we're talking about the past, absolutely. Disney certainly played an essential part in making the area what it is today but that also includes a huge glut of relatively undesirable low-wage employment both from them and from other tourist businesses, especially as more and more non-tourist related businesses have begun to move operations into the area which, combined with vacation home buying, has made it very difficult for a large percentage of local low-wage working residents to live with any sense of stability or security.

The problem as it affects everyone is that Disney and the surrounding area, very much need/want this low-wage labor but don't want to properly provide for it.

As far as Disney's feelings, you need only look to Anehiem to understand how much they value their cast's well being.

If you're talking about the past and how that somehow deserves "loyalty" today, who exactly is still around working for the current corporate behemoth that people, businesses, and the government should be thankful to for what the Disney of yesteryear did for them?

I've said before that I remember when many of us were fearful of the Comcast attempt at taking over Disney many years ago and what that would do to the company but Disney themselves grew into something much worse than the now-owners of Universal ever were.

It's also worth pointing out that a lot of what fans from outside the area imagine today's Disney brings to the table are things that many locals see as holding the economy back.

All that money you spend at Disney? It helps increase the need for low-wage labor and the bulk of the profit made gets divvied up outside of the state with a relatively small percentage being reinvested, locally.

Disney may be an unfairly popular target right now but the irrational discontent with them in Florida is not entirely unfounded.

Disney still matters a lot here but not as much as it used to and as they continue to matter less and less, their outsized influence will continue to wane both at the state and local level.

To deny that means to argue with your eyes closed because I'm not talking about some theoretical possible future - it's happening right now in front of us.

Some of what's happened in the last couple years would have been unthinkable a decade or more ago. A Florida governor, eager to publicly battle them, regardless of his political aspirations, is just one of those things.

 

[MrPromey]

All this talk about transportation from the airport makes me wonder how much Disney paid per passenger for Magical Express, ridership was a little over 2 million a year so if it was $10 a person (each way) they spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $40 million a year. It ran for about 11 years so about $440 million dollars, about what a monorail from MCO to Epcot would have cost (at $20 million a mile).

Disney should have personally built a monorail or light rail years ago, it would have paid for itself already.

Yeah but who in charge from eleven years ago would have been around today to reap the rewards for that kind of visionary move?

 

[CentralFLlife]

All this talk about transportation from the airport makes me wonder how much Disney paid per passenger for Magical Express, ridership was a little over 2 million a year so if it was $10 a person (each way) they spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $40 million a year. It ran for about 11 years so about $440 million dollars, about what a monorail from MCO to Epcot would have cost (at $20 million a mile).

Disney should have personally built a monorail or light rail years ago, it would have paid for itself already.

Edited to add… depending on the website it looks like monorail cost estimates vary from $15 million a km (on websites promoting monorails) to $140 million a mile (on websites promoting light rail) so the $20 million may be unrealistic.

You aren’t accounting for the cost to buy the land to build the monorail/light rail, the cost to buy the trains, & the cost to operate it.

It would be nowhere close to paying for itself.

 

[CentralFLlife]

I never understood why the Springs brightline stop was made out to be such a big deal.

Unless there was a dramatic change to how Brightline was going to operate, Trains were likely going to only make the trip once per hour. So it wasn’t like you’d be able to get off your flight, grab your bags, and be on a train in 15 min.

This sounds like an overly complicated way to start your vacation in Orlando: land, take tram to terminal, go to baggage claim & get bags, go back up to the main level of the terminal and get the tram to terminal C, wait at terminal C for 15-45 min for train, get to station at Springs, transfer to resort bus at Springs.

Would have been nice, yes, but it wasn’t going to streamline your arrival or departure.

The great thing about trains is that their tracks don’t move. So in 5-10 years when they get the expansion to Tampa they could easily build a station at Springs.

 

[Lilofan]

If we're talking about the past, absolutely. Disney certainly played an essential part in making the area what it is today but that also includes a huge glut of relatively undesirable low-wage employment both from them and from other tourist businesses, especially as more and more non-tourist related businesses have begun to move operations into the area which, combined with vacation home buying, has made it very difficult for a large percentage of local low-wage working residents to live with any sense of stability or security.

If you're talking about the past and how that somehow deserves "loyalty" today, who exactly is still around working for the current corporate behemoth that people, businesses, and the government should be thankful to for what the Disney of yesteryear did for them?

I've said before that I remember when many of us were fearful of the Comcast attempt at taking over Disney many years ago and what that would do to the company but Disney themselves grew into something much worse than the now-owners of Universal ever were.

It's also worth pointing out that a lot of what fans from outside the area imagine today's Disney brings to the table are things that many locals see as holding the economy back.

All that money you spend at Disney? It helps increase the need for low-wage labor and the bulk of the profit made gets divvied up outside of the state with a relatively small percentage being reinvested, locally.

Disney may be an unfairly popular target right now but the irrational discontent with them in Florida is not entirely unfounded.

Disney still matters a lot here but not as much as it used to and as they continue to matter less and less, their outsized influence will continue to wane both at the state and local level.

To deny that means to argue with your eyes closed because I'm not talking about some theoretical possible future - it's happening right now in front of us.

Some of what's happened in the last couple years would have been unthinkable a decade or more ago. A Florida governor, eager to publicly battle them, regardless of his political aspirations, is just one of those things.

Last time we were in Orlando the sprawling construction is the number of apts being built in Orange and Osceola counties near the attractions and tourist hotels and dining. Build them and they will come and be filled.

 

[MrPromey]

Last time we were in Orlando the sprawling construction is the number of apts being built in Orange and Osceola counties near the attractions and tourist hotels and dining. Build them and they will come and be filled.

If that's your evidence, there's no point in debating this with you.

I don't expect you to understand the local situation as a tourist but the argument you're floating is essentially "let them eat cake".

It's okay to be ignorant about what's going on - it's not your society or economy, after all - but not if you want to voice a strong opinion on it and expect to be taken seriously.

I'm out.

 

[Lilofan]

If that's your evidence, there's no point in debating this with you.

I don't expect you to understand the local situation as a tourist but the argument you're floating is essentially "let them eat cake".

It's okay to be ignorant about what's going on - it's not your society or economy, after all - but not if you want to voice a strong opinion on it and expect to be taken seriously.

I'm out.

Are some people disgruntled , yes, and the low wage tourism industry ( no surprise ) continues to have many , every single week to move to Central FL to seek employment in the #1 industry in FL. The apt complexes are getting wind of this and construction on new locations is in many locations in CFL.

 

[MrPromey]

Are some people disgruntled , yes, and the low wage tourism industry ( no surprise ) continues to have many , every single week to move to Central FL to seek employment in the #1 industry in FL. The apt complexes are getting wind of this and construction on new locations is in many locations in CFL.

Dude, you don't know what you're talking about.

Look at the price of rent for these new apartments then look how much the people you're talking about are making.

If you want to reply to this and have the last word go ahead - I really am done.

 

[Lilofan]

Dude, you don't know what you're talking about.

Look at the price of rent for these new apartments then look how much the people you're talking about are making.

If you want to reply to this and have the last word go ahead - I really am done.

Rent is high no doubt, so is the high occupancy - fact. Before I bought into real estate, I rented and held down two jobs to help pay bills and pay down debt.

 

[Rich Brownn]

The new route going via the 528 is going to be a lot slower and cost twice as much than going via the 417 as they have to build loads of crossings with gates.
We all know how people treat these sort of crossings in Florida by the high rate of incidents and fatalities on the line Brightline currently operate on. I suspect Disney doesn't want any of the bad press that is almost certain to happen when the first idiot drives around closed crossing gates and gets hit by a train

The 528 route was the original route of the high speed Tampa/Orlando train before it was scrapped. I imagine they will do the same kind of route - using 528 route to elevate the train so no crossings will be needed for the most part (the HSR was actually planned to run along side 528 to I-4)

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

The new route going via the 528 is going to be a lot slower and cost twice as much than going via the 417 as they have to build loads of crossings with gates.
We all know how people treat these sort of crossings in Florida by the high rate of incidents and fatalities on the line Brightline currently operate on. I suspect Disney doesn't want any of the bad press that is almost certain to happen when the first idiot drives around closed crossing gates and gets hit by a train

I don’t know whether the cost or the potential bad press would really matter to Disney but the trip to Disney will definitely be slower, they went from a nonstop route to a route with 2 stops before them, one to connect with Sunrail and another at the convention center, those stops will probably double the trip time.

It takes what would have been an already time consuming (with transfer to bus) option and made it even longer for WDW.

30-45 minutes to the hotel isn’t bad, bump that to 45 minutes to an hour or more and most people would likely opt for an Uber anyway. Not much incentive to give up land and right of way if your guests aren’t using it.