Astro Blaster
Well-Known Member
I loved living in London and hopping on a train 10 minutes from my apartment that went directly to the middle of DLP.
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Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World
- Thread starter UCF
- Start date
toolsnspools
Well-Known Member
You need to connect from the terminal to the HSR station in some way. I would hope that's not a bus, but there will need to be a new connection point of some kind. There will be at a minimum, a security separation between the terminal and train station. It would likely be most easily accessible from the baggage claim area, since most folks will need to collect their bags before boarding the train. The original plan for the train had the station around the cell phone lot (as I recall), so that 10 minutes accounts for the time to travel to the train station from the baggage claim.
I haven't been to a train station in a long time, but I can't image a state of the art high speed rail station without a security checkpoint. I find it far more likely that you would have to go through a checkpoint similar to the TSA stations to get inside the airport. Even if you're scanning a special Disney badge for a Disney train, you're going to have to go through the checkpoint. So will there be a check-in? Absolutely.
Could there be a dedicated Disney train? Sure. I guessed an hour between departures if they had 2 dedicated trains, one going in each direction at a time. IMO that's a highly unlikely scenario. Just catching the southbound would increase the frequency of the departures, and be more appealing to most people than waiting. It would also mean the travel time gets longer every time another station is added to the mix. You're also losing the "Disney Experience" while you travel, so it wouldn't be likely that Disney would subsidize it, so you'd be buying a ticket.
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Rider
Well-Known Member
The train station is part of the new south terminal. In fact the station is already complete! It only needs rails to connect it to a system (Brightline to Miami will be first): https://orlandoairports.net/getting-around-mco/south-apm-station-garage-c/
No plans for train TSA-syle checkpoints. They certainly don't use them at other major train stations around the country. Walk into Grand Central in New York and get on a train as fast as your feet can get you to the platform.
No plans for train TSA-syle checkpoints. They certainly don't use them at other major train stations around the country. Walk into Grand Central in New York and get on a train as fast as your feet can get you to the platform.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The high speed rail project was a boondoggle because the distances and traffic did not justify the huge additional expense of genuine high speed trains and equipment. The Brightline is not a high speed train but a higher speed train, which is actually slower than a high speed train. The trains are more like conventional trains,capable of exceeding 100 mph in normal operation but not nearly as expensive and demanding as true high speed.
Brightline is also a subsidiary of the Florida East Coast Railway, the railroad built by Henry Flagler from Jacksonville over the sea to Key West.
Brightline is also a subsidiary of the Florida East Coast Railway, the railroad built by Henry Flagler from Jacksonville over the sea to Key West.
toolsnspools
Well-Known Member
So the south terminal was/is being built by the cell phone lot, so if you arrive at the new south terminal, you'll be close to the station, but if you land at the current/old/north/?? terminal then you need to add at least 10 minutes. So absolute best case scenario, the train could save 15 minutes on the trip. Worst case, it will still cost you close to an hour. How much are we paying for this?
If anyone thinks I'm way off, mock up your own scenario and do your own math. It took 5 minutes to put mine together. You can try to justify the train by other means, but time and money are not going to get you there.
Rider
Well-Known Member
The APM from North to South is 3 minutes:
Since everything from ticket prices to schedules to even the route and location of stations is unknown there is no way to mock up a scenario that is accurate to reality.
But I'll give it a go anyway:
APM to South terminal: 3 minutes
One train departs every 60 seconds to WDW
The train is free for WDW guests
It travels at 300 MPH and arrives at the TTC 5 minutes later
Total time saved vs bus: 30-60 minutes.
Since everything from ticket prices to schedules to even the route and location of stations is unknown there is no way to mock up a scenario that is accurate to reality.
But I'll give it a go anyway:
APM to South terminal: 3 minutes
One train departs every 60 seconds to WDW
The train is free for WDW guests
It travels at 300 MPH and arrives at the TTC 5 minutes later
Total time saved vs bus: 30-60 minutes.
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the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
This scenario really strikes at TDO’s failure to improve MDE since its inception. We now have remote check in, but MDE makes guests take a bus to their hotel, oftentimes with stops at other resorts. (This makes up for a big chunk of time in your scenario) Unless you want to bring your luggage to your room, why do you want to go to your hotel? Why does DME not offer busses that drop guests off at the parks of their choice?
The ideal mode of MCO-WDW transit is a transrapid maglev (more for maintenance and capacity than all out speed) DME, leaving MCO from the south terminal, which drops off guests at a TTC, correct approach being a new one at Epcot, and a second line connecting the resort to SW, OCCC, UNI and MCO from its northern entrance. Under this version of DME, guests wouldn’t have to wait for buses to their specific resorts at MCO, another bottleneck. They just check in via app and they can proceed to the parks. Nor would they need to rely on taxi/Uber/Mears/rental car to get to other attractions during their trip.
It’s not something current leadership would go for, but it’s solid planning for the tourism sector in Central FL beyond WDW, which would aid it in getting built.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
Funny that Martin county prevented I-95 from running continuously to Miami until 1987 because they didn't want growth. Now they are holding up a train because they want growth.
Like all of the existing people movers at the airport, trains leave every 2 minutes, and the travel time is 2 minutes. The south terminal had 16 airplane gates under construction now as well, scheduled to open before train service begins (and likely more gates before it goes to Tampa where this stop could be added).
So if you want a time analysis at the airport, it has to depend on what gate you arrive at:
Gates 1-59: Arriving to bus service is likely 5-10 minutes faster
Gates 70-129: Arriving to train service is likely 0-5 minutes faster
Gates 130+ (opening next year): Arriving to train service is likely 10-15 minutes faster
Thats why I would say time to get to the station is a wash, it just solely depends on where you're coming from, and its hard to predict. As others have mentioned, security for trains in America is generally more similar to our older style security we had at theme parks before we were so concerned with terrorism, usually with a few security guards looking for suspicious behavior and other signs of trouble, and some random bag checks in a generally unorganized fashion.
I can't say I really take DME since I live in Orlando, but I've also been told wait times frequently are more towards 30 minutes and sometimes even 45 minutes on the long side as well by others who have met me at Disney in the past. So I'll follow your DME for the short side and add 25 minutes on the long side to account for that: DME bus takes between 50-140 minutes.
On the HSR side, you have to take out your first 2 rows, as travel time to the bus station is just as required as travel time to the HSR, and checkin is not necessary. The other sketchy part of your time table is just how long it takes to get to your hotel from the Disney train station on property. Obviously switching from train to bus (or whatever on site transport service is offered) will remove some time savings, its likely the transport system will have an entirely different structure. Instead of the bus going through all the different hotels, you would disembark from the train and board a bus headed straight for your hotel (or maybe a small group of hotels). Also, Disney would be very aware of the time the trains are arriving on property, trains operate on a strict schedule and are not subject to traffic, so the transfer time would be a much more fixed number, and shouldn't take up to 30 minutes to transfer. Realistically that should take 5-10 minutes to transfer. Because you're stopping at less resorts, the travel time on WDW property should be less as well, so lets say that puts you at 25 minutes to account for traffic and whatnot. That means the train should take between 35-115 minutes, and thats assuming the train only operates once an hour. If they do get it at once per half hour, that'd bring it to 35-80 minutes for the HSR. On average, the HSR likely should be about 15 minutes faster. Not huge in the grand scheme of things, but it also is about creating a special experience when you arrive. The HSR trains are much more spacious and comfortable then a charter bus, and more fun, just like the monorail and skyliner are better then buses for the same reason.
cosmicgirl
Well-Known Member
As someone who's been using HSR for 19 years I'd have to disagree with that. Security checks are the exception, not the rule. The only HSR line I've traveled on that has had a security check since the 90s is the Chunnel. In recent years (read: since the attacks in Paris and Brussels) security checks have started to pop up here and there but they are extremely inconsistent. They've started doing checks in Paris for instance, but you can step on that same train in another station without being checked. Not having to arrive way ahead of time is one of the selling points of HSR travel compared to flying. If they introduce checking in and security checks then they lose their edge over air travel in most markets.
Maglev in Shanghai reaches 268mph over a distance of 18.95mi according to Wikipedia. And it doesn't keep up that speed very long, maybe a minute or so. Good luck getting to 300mph over 17mi.
cjkeating
Well-Known Member
That's a cultural thing. Tokyo Disneyland, for example, has the majority of its customers and CM's arrive and depart via the busy Maihama station about a 10 minute walk from the front gates of the parks. But that's also why Tokyo Disneyland closes up shop promptly at 10pm even on busy days, without an extra "convenience shopping hour" on Main Street USA - they have to get all the CM"s out of there by the time the last train leaves for the night at Midnight. It's also why if you stay at the ultra-expensive Tokyo Disneyland Hotel or MiraCosta at DisneySea your sole perk is "Early Entry" of exactly 15 minutes before park opening each morning. That's all the time they can spare for Early Entry because the CM's can't get there any earlier than the first train of the day. Seriously - 15 Minutes!
Tokyo Disney Resort is fabulous, but it's daily operation is hindered by the constraints of trying to operate at the whims of Tokyo's public transit system. It's unlike anything you'd have to deal with in the American parks, because most American CM's drive their own cars to work.
As for Anaheim, there is a big swanky train station just down Katella Avenue from Disneyland. Anaheim's station has over 50 trains per day stopping there; 24 Amtrak Surfliners north and southbound, and another couple dozen Metrolink commuter trains serving both the Los Angeles line and the Inland Empire line. .
Anaheim Regional Transportation Intermodal Center (ARTIC)
A free shuttle bus (funded entirely by Orange County sales tax) sits out front of the big station waiting to take anyone arriving or departing via train directly to the front gates of Disneyland. But very, very few people take that option even though the shuttle bus is free, the trains are fast and furious, and the Anaheim station is convenient and gleaming with shops and cocktail bars and restaurants inside.
Your Free Shuttle System To Disneyland Compliments of Orange County taxpayers - Usually Empty and Unused.
Americans just don't naturally take the train to vacation spots, or for their weekend entertainment plans. They prefer to drive their car, which is often faster, cheaper, and easier than a train even with some freeway traffic. It's fun to be free!
Interesting. I didn't know that bus existsted and got an Uber instead from the station to DL. I didn't come across any promotion for it when I was doing travel research in 2016.
Robbiem
Well-Known Member
That's a cultural thing. Tokyo Disneyland, for example, has the majority of its customers and CM's arrive and depart via the busy Maihama station about a 10 minute walk from the front gates of the parks. But that's also why Tokyo Disneyland closes up shop promptly at 10pm even on busy days, without an extra "convenience shopping hour" on Main Street USA - they have to get all the CM"s out of there by the time the last train leaves for the night at Midnight. It's also why if you stay at the ultra-expensive Tokyo Disneyland Hotel or MiraCosta at DisneySea your sole perk is "Early Entry" of exactly 15 minutes before park opening each morning. That's all the time they can spare for Early Entry because the CM's can't get there any earlier than the first train of the day. Seriously - 15 Minutes!
Tokyo Disney Resort is fabulous, but it's daily operation is hindered by the constraints of trying to operate at the whims of Tokyo's public transit system. It's unlike anything you'd have to deal with in the American parks, because most American CM's drive their own cars to work.
As for Anaheim, there is a big swanky train station just down Katella Avenue from Disneyland. Anaheim's station has over 50 trains per day stopping there; 24 Amtrak Surfliners north and southbound, and another couple dozen Metrolink commuter trains serving both the Los Angeles line and the Inland Empire line. .
Anaheim Regional Transportation Intermodal Center (ARTIC)
A free shuttle bus (funded entirely by Orange County sales tax) sits out front of the big station waiting to take anyone arriving or departing via train directly to the front gates of Disneyland. But very, very few people take that option even though the shuttle bus is free, the trains are fast and furious, and the Anaheim station is convenient and gleaming with shops and cocktail bars and restaurants inside.
Your Free Shuttle System To Disneyland Compliments of Orange County taxpayers - Usually Empty and Unused.
Americans just don't naturally take the train to vacation spots, or for their weekend entertainment plans. They prefer to drive their car, which is often faster, cheaper, and easier than a train even with some freeway traffic. It's fun to be free!
Its good to see public transport improving. When I visited Disneyland around 15 years ago it was a real pain to get to the old Anaheim station to visit anywhere else, the train service was appalling (the trains were nice) and you needed a passport to buy a train ticket
phillip9698
Well-Known Member
I've NEVER experienced a TSA style check-in while boarding a train. You just scan your ticket and go through the gate.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
Hope it stays that way but after the first nutjob sets off a bomb on a train in a way that causes mass casualties it will change. Hopefully it won't ever happen.
winstongator
Well-Known Member
Just got back from a trip to London. Met a woman at Heathrow who lives there now. She said they take the train to Paris frequently and that "no one" flies there from London anymore. We used the underground one day from our apartment in Kensington to the Tower of London, then back from the Embankment station. We could walk to the Natural History Museum, V&A, and Harrods. Taxi'd to the theater district where we saw Aladdin, which was awesome! Tube was more expensive than I thought, but was still cheaper than our taxis.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Trains are vulnerable for outside as well. One could just place an obstruction, not even something as sophisticated as bomb, on the track.
cosmicgirl
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't go that far. Europe has actually reached a point where HSR has become so expensive that flying is the better option for many if you don't book months in advance. It's a big topic at the moment because people are urged to use HSR for environmental reasons, but the cost has skyrocketed, whereas flying has become cheaper. HSR was introduced as an alternative to flying and can be very convenient, but it certainly isn't always the best option.
Robbiem
Well-Known Member
Glad you enjoyed my hometown. I agree that most people take the train to Paris, even with security checks Eurostar is still better, especially when you add in time to get from each city to the airport. For further routes it’s nor as easy a calculation. It will be interesting to see how Eurostar services to Amsterdam do now that they have recently started
cosmicgirl
Well-Known Member
Not well so far, as Eurostar is trying to fill the trains with passengers travelling between Amsterdam and Brussels at bargain prices.