Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World

[the.dreamfinder]

Trains will always be more efficient than planes as they can be powered by electricity, but I also agree that such a network would cost a fortune and requires a national vision.

California can't even build one HSR within their own state so there's no way all the states from Miami to New York would be able to work together.

Planes also provide more flexibly.

Trains are best suited to routes in the 200 to 300 mile range.

If you’re building HSR from scratch, like the USA would have to do, is it even worth it to build it out with today’s tech/speeds? Maglev at 400-500 mph could be a real alternative to short to medium haul air travel and be best suited for a 75-100 year lifespan.

 

[mm121]

If you’re building HSR from scratch, like the USA would have to do, is it even worth it to build it out with today’s tech/speeds? Maglev at 400-500 mph could be a real alternative to short to medium haul air travel and be best suited for a 75-100 year lifespan.

I'd love to see maglev in the USA,

It would be great and a true alternative to air travel at those speeds.

 

[DisneyCane]

Trains will always be more efficient than planes as they can be powered by electricity, but I also agree that such a network would cost a fortune and requires a national vision.

California can't even build one HSR within their own state so there's no way all the states from Miami to New York would be able to work together.

Planes also provide more flexibly.

Trains are best suited to routes in the 200 to 300 mile range.

Trains are more efficient than planes because they go slower, the rolling resistance of steel wheels takes less energy than creating lift and the long line of closely spaced cars "draft" with each other.

Being able to run directly off of electricity isn't a major factor. A jet engine has similar efficiency to the turbines in a gas power plant.

My point was that the efficiency isn't enough more to justify the significant increase in origin to destination travel time over you go beyond a few hundred miles.

 

[Lensman]

Trains are more efficient than planes because they go slower, the rolling resistance of steel wheels takes less energy than creating lift and the long line of closely spaced cars "draft" with each other.

Being able to run directly off of electricity isn't a major factor. A jet engine has similar efficiency to the turbines in a gas power plant.

My point was that the efficiency isn't enough more to justify the significant increase in origin to destination travel time over you go beyond a few hundred miles.

I agree with you, but I think purchasing rights of way and the capital cost of building high speed trackage are also high hurdles to high speed rail in the U.S.

BTW, other inefficiencies working against airplanes is that they have to haul the fuel for their entire journey - though in the case of the Brightline diesel-electric trainsets this inefficiency also applies, though is not as much of a factor due to weight being less of an efficiency factor for trains compared to planes. Generally speaking though, it does not apply to most high speed rail that gets power from an overhead catenary.

As crazy as it sounds, I think hyperloop has more of a chance than traditional high speed rail or maglev.

BTW, I also want to note that the U.S. isn't unique in our low train ridership. I think Canada and Australia also has similar low per-capita train ridership compared to air travel.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

As crazy as it sounds, I think hyperloop has more of a chance than traditional high speed rail or maglev.

Hyperloops can’t turn.

 

[Voxel]

If you’re building HSR from scratch, like the USA would have to do, is it even worth it to build it out with today’s tech/speeds? Maglev at 400-500 mph could be a real alternative to short to medium haul air travel and be best suited for a 75-100 year lifespan.

It depends on the direction.. maglev is still years away from proper deployment. Japan's Chuo Shinkansen will not open until 2027, with the full Shinagawa to Osaka line opening in 2037.

I think your best bet in American for High Speed is the Tradition Shinkansen, ie a variant of the N700. This is supposedly being modified for the Texas Central Railway form Houston to Dallas

 

[the.dreamfinder]

It depends on the direction.. maglev is still years away from proper deployment. Japan's Chuo Shinkansen will not open until 2027, with the full Shinagawa to Osaka line opening in 2037.

I think your best bet in American for High Speed is the Tradition Shinkansen, ie a variant of the N700. This is supposedly being modified for the Texas Central Railway form Houston to Dallas

But remember, the majority of the Chuo Shinkansen is underground and the tunnel boring is why it will take so long, not the technology itself.

 

[Voxel]

But remember, the majority of the Chuo Shinkansen is underground and the tunnel boring is why it will take so long, not the technology itself.

This is also true, but I do believe some of the markets are waiting to see how the Chuo line will do.

 

[Trackmaster]

Isn't a lot of their business model based on making money at the stations vs. the fares? HSR can only work in the USA on high traffic routes within 500 miles maximum of each other. The traffic must be origin and destination traffic.

High speed trains aren't high speed enough to compete with planes on things like NY to Florida. Even including getting to the airport early and the travel time from home, you can get from South Florida to New York City by air in less than 4.5 hours total travel time. With an express HSR train, if the tracks are all brand new high speed capable, you are looking at minimum 7.5 hours just on the train plus you still have to get from home to the station and be there at least a little early.

To be capable of that speed the track would cost tens of billions of dollars (more likely over $100 billion). As each generation of aircraft keeps getting 12%-20% more efficient or more, by the time you build out the HSR, a new plane won't be all that much less energy efficient but will still be significantly faster.

Yeah, people need to stop trying to think of solutions to problems that don't exist. I see the Brightline marketed to families for travel and day trips, and I'm like "OK, this isn't the 1950's." Driving is more or less fine for a day trip if its within 4-5 hours with multiple people on board. Plus, if its for recreation, it doesn't have to be during rush hour.

What the major cities need is commuting relief. We're getting crushed by traffic because millions of people climb into a huge hunk of metal, and operate it for two hours a day on crowded roads. The goal should be getting people from their home to work and back with rail. I'm not as worried about recreational travel, as they can use all 24 hours in a day and 7 days a week to spread the traffic out, and they're fitting more people in per car.

Plus, as people were saying, flying is already a pretty attractive option that a train can never compete with for longer distances. Trains really just give a benefit for short-term distance.

 

[Voxel]

Yeah, people need to stop trying to think of solutions to problems that don't exist. I see the Brightline marketed to families for travel and day trips, and I'm like "OK, this isn't the 1950's." Driving is more or less fine for a day trip if its within 4-5 hours with multiple people on board. Plus, if its for recreation, it doesn't have to be during rush hour.

What the major cities need is commuting relief. We're getting crushed by traffic because millions of people climb into a huge hunk of metal, and operate it for two hours a day on crowded roads. The goal should be getting people from their home to work and back with rail. I'm not as worried about recreational travel, as they can use all 24 hours in a day and 7 days a week to spread the traffic out, and they're fitting more people in per car.

Plus, as people were saying, flying is already a pretty attractive option that a train can never compete with for longer distances. Trains really just give a benefit for short-term distance.

I think brightline's marketing fits this area. I live about an hour and some change from Disney.. When your going every other weekend the hours add up in the driving. I would gladly take a train that took the same amount of time or less. In fact many of my co-worker and friends who visit Disney as offend tend to agree.

I will completely agree with the commuter systems, but at the same time I was surprised with how many people actually take the commuter rail in DC. I took the VRE to DC for meetings all the time, there were many trips were it was standing room only. IT shows that people want the "luxury" of an easy commute, it just seems that America Struggle with it.

I think Flight over Rail depends on distance and what we consider "long". When I was in Japan I had the choice to fly from Hiroshima to Tokyo or take the train. (this is a distance over ~450 miles) The flight was about an hour and a half, but once you considered the time to do the Airport check in and the fact that this particular flight landed a 45 min train ride to tokyo, you were talking close to 3 and a half hours. Mean while a Nazomi Bullet train will do the trip in just under 4 hours... I will agree that the Longer the distance the better advantage air has, but I think we have to define "Long"

 

[mm121]

Yeah, people need to stop trying to think of solutions to problems that don't exist. I see the Brightline marketed to families for travel and day trips, and I'm like "OK, this isn't the 1950's." Driving is more or less fine for a day trip if its within 4-5 hours with multiple people on board. Plus, if its for recreation, it doesn't have to be during rush hour.

What the major cities need is commuting relief. We're getting crushed by traffic because millions of people climb into a huge hunk of metal, and operate it for two hours a day on crowded roads. The goal should be getting people from their home to work and back with rail. I'm not as worried about recreational travel, as they can use all 24 hours in a day and 7 days a week to spread the traffic out, and they're fitting more people in per car.

Plus, as people were saying, flying is already a pretty attractive option that a train can never compete with for longer distances. Trains really just give a benefit for short-term distance.

While the tickets for a family will cost way more than driving I could see it being successful.

Especially if the build the Disney stop.

I've done day trips of 4 to 5 hours and it makes a SUPER long and stressful day for the driver.

Especially on FL roads as heading to Tampa you have the boring dangerous stretch of Allegator Ally. And heading to Orlando you have long boring stretches on the Turnpike.

I took the Amtrak to Orlando once since was meeting friends so could use there car for local travel and it was actually pretty nice. Arrived rested and relaxed.

4 hour away day trips mean leaving at like 5am and not getting home till like 2am.
Not exactly the ideal for families.

 

[Rich Brownn]

While the tickets for a family will cost way more than driving I could see it being successful.

Especially if the build the Disney stop.

I've done day trips of 4 to 5 hours and it makes a SUPER long and stressful day for the driver.

Especially on FL roads as heading to Tampa you have the boring dangerous stretch of Allegator Ally. And heading to Orlando you have long boring stretches on the Turnpike.

I took the Amtrak to Orlando once since was meeting friends so could use there car for local travel and it was actually pretty nice. Arrived rested and relaxed.

4 hour away day trips mean leaving at like 5am and not getting home till like 2am.
Not exactly the ideal for families.

I used to take the Sunset Limited from Orlando to LA (Well, I had 4 weeks paid vacation). It was nice to arrive in LA relaxed, refreshed and go right off to Disneyland.

 

[raymusiccity]

This is also true, but I do believe some of the markets are waiting to see how the Chuo line will do.

To be more precise, we should be referring to them as 'Chuo Chuo Trains' !

 

[DisneyCane]

While the tickets for a family will cost way more than driving I could see it being successful.

Especially if the build the Disney stop.

I've done day trips of 4 to 5 hours and it makes a SUPER long and stressful day for the driver.

Especially on FL roads as heading to Tampa you have the boring dangerous stretch of Allegator Ally. And heading to Orlando you have long boring stretches on the Turnpike.

I took the Amtrak to Orlando once since was meeting friends so could use there car for local travel and it was actually pretty nice. Arrived rested and relaxed.

4 hour away day trips mean leaving at like 5am and not getting home till like 2am.
Not exactly the ideal for families.

Alligator Alley hasn't been any more dangerous than any other part of I-75 since 1992 when it became a 4 lane divided highway.

 

[Voxel]

To be more precise, we should be referring to them as 'Chuo Chuo Trains' !

The faster one can be called the Chuo Chuo Express

 

[biggy H]

People also take into account the Enviromental effects when comparing the different modes of transport. An Electrified train will be more environmentally friendly than airplanes and driving (until electric cars take over) so people would use it over flying.

 

[Movielover]

People also take into account the Enviromental effects when comparing the different modes of transport. An Electrified train will be more environmentally friendly than airplanes and driving (until electric cars take over) so people would use it over flying.

And then when they realize that taking a train will take literally twice the amount of time as a airplane they will quickly go back to flying...

 

[Rich Brownn]

And then when they realize that taking a train will take literally twice the amount of time as a airplane they will quickly go back to flying...

Except you have to add in clearing security, getting baggage, finding parking..... Someone once worked out to fly from Boston to Washington vis the train it ended up actually faster to get to your destination by train

 

[NobodyElse]

Hyperloops can’t turn.

Would you care to elaborate?

I know for the highest speeds, it needs to run as straight A's possible, but the same can be said for other high speed transport.

 

[Texas84]

Except you have to add in clearing security, getting baggage, finding parking..... Someone once worked out to fly from Boston to Washington vis the train it ended up actually faster to get to your destination by train

That won't be true for longer routes. And we will have TSA level security for trains eventually.