Here’s to Hoot and Chief...

[BoarderPhreak]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Yes, a large part of H&C's adventures in Horizons were "to document it." But they clearly went beyond the scope of that in every video, sitting with AAs, stealing little bits here and there (granted, it was slated to be demolished). I don't think it was quite as "innocent" as some are making it out to be.

And let's not forget, both were injured in doing this. Hoot hurt his foot (which apparently still hurts today) and Chief bashed his head pretty badly.

Sneaking around these things, in the dark is extremely dangerous. There are a LOT of unforgiving, moving parts in there. They're lucky on a few levels.

...and they weren't the first.

 

[mergatroid]

I’m sorry...he doesn’t seem to take much caution in what he’s doing. I see someone who’s gonna get hurt. He has already been trespassed twice… And from what I am starting to figure out… He’ll do anything to get on the property and film things he shouldn’t… Somethings going to happen.

Ironically here's a Hoot & Chief video called 'Hoot almost dies'. He foolishly climbs the cat walks and almost falls, just as reckless as Matt surely?

 

[Brer Oswald]

As I believe Matt is. I just don't see much difference other than your insistence that you know why they do it. Matt also explores lot's of other places, I believe he probably gets the same buzz that Hoot & Chief got by doing what they shouldn't. I don't know for sure why any of them do it and would hazard a guess nobody other than them does, that's why I can't really argue with any knowledge of why it's done. At the end of the day there's not really much difference in what they do, they're both wrong.

I hate when people highlight the first sentence in my post. It’s not my complete thought process, and as you see in the following sentences, it explains why I’m annoyed with Sonswa.

But if I have to clarify further, I will. It was the “Banned from Disney Twice” video that irritated me the most. You can just tell how little f bombs he gives. It’s ALL about how you carry yourself. You can tell one’s character and intentions by the way they talk. Watch a Hoot and Chief Video. You can just hear the joy and excitement in their voices when they discover something new.

It’s fine if you don’t see a difference. Just know that there are many others who look at things like this beyond their face value.

 

[Seabasealpha1]

Ironically here's a Hoot & Chief video called 'Hoot almost dies'. He foolishly climbs the cat walks and almost falls, just as reckless as Matt surely?

I just don’t get maturity vibes the same way as H&C. That’s really the bottom line. And this thread isn’t necessarily to glorify what they did...I just thought the video that was at the beginning of this was a cool tribute. We are in a very different time and place than they were.

I’d imagine most of this kind of thing is gonna get extremely difficult to do...

I don’t want to turn this in to another thread where we all argue about the ethics of sneaking around like this. It IS wrong. It’s not something ANYONE should do and I do not condone or support it. It is something I can say with 100% positivity that I will never ever do. I do believe someone will get hurt badly if not killed and I believe that Disney is well within their rights to do whatever must be done to prevent that.

However, there’s a lot of value in the knowledge these folks bring to our eye. There’s a whole lot of adventure and nostalgia in reading Mesa Verde Times. And you know, Chief is gone (God rest him) and I seriously doubt Hoot is in any way still doing anything like this.

It’s for each person to decide for themselves how they feel...obviously. But as there’s a whole lot more to Hoot and Chief than just sneaking around back stage (the Few comics released are hilarious and the blogs are well-written)...I find them an enjoyable part of being a Disney nerd. I appreciate the knowledge I have gained through their delinquent behavior... that’s it. It’s obvious they loved Disney too. They were in it for themselves.

I can’t tell you how many awesome other blogs I found through theirs...Imagineering Disney, Passport2dreams, several others...

I enjoyed the video. That’s it. And yeah, I lift my Germany Pavilion acrylic mug that cost me $17 to them both.

 

[mergatroid]

I hate when people highlight the first sentence in my post. It’s not my complete thought process, and as you see in the following sentences, it explains why I’m annoyed with Sonswa.

But if I have to clarify further, I will. It was the “Banned from Disney Twice” video that irritated me the most. You can just tell how little f bombs he gives. It’s ALL about how you carry yourself. You can tell one’s character and intentions by the way they talk. Watch a Hoot and Chief Video. You can just hear the joy and excitement in their voices when they discover something new.

It’s fine if you don’t see a difference. Just know that there are many others who look at things like this beyond their face value.

Matt is one of the most monotone vlogger out there. I truly believe that Hoot & Chief loved Disney far more than Matt does, I'd also prefer to spend time with Hoot over Matt any day of the week going off their personalities. I'm not disagreeing on that point other than we don't really know why they do it, other than a guess on why. My point is that when people do the same thing wrong, it's difficult to excuse one because we 'believe' they love doing it more than the other. They're either both wrong or not. We can perhaps have more sympathy for one because of our bias, but the reasons they shouldn't do it is surely the same for them both.

If two guys decided to urinate in my garden one night, one because he thought it funny and the other because he was desperate, I'd be angry with both. I'd perhaps think the guy who was desperate wasn't as bad, but ultimately I'd still have a stranger's urine stinking out my garden

 

[mergatroid]

I just don’t get maturity vibes the same way as H&C. That’s really the bottom line. And this thread isn’t necessarily to glorify what they did...I just thought the video that was at the beginning of this was a cool tribute. We are in a very different time and place than they were.

I’d imagine most of this kind of thing is gonna get extremely difficult to do...

I don’t want to turn this in to another thread where we all argue about the ethics of sneaking around like this. It IS wrong. It’s not something ANYONE should do and I do not condone or support it. It is something I can say with 100% positivity that I will never ever do. I do believe someone will get hurt badly if not killed and I believe that Disney is well within their rights to do whatever must be done to prevent that.

However, there’s a lot of value in the knowledge these folks bring to our eye. There’s a whole lot of adventure and nostalgia in reading Mesa Verde Times. And you know, Chief is gone (God rest him) and I seriously doubt Hoot is in any way still doing anything like this.

It’s for each person to decide for themselves how they feel...obviously. But as there’s a whole lot more to Hoot and Chief than just sneaking around back stage (the Few comics released are hilarious and the blogs are well-written)...I find them an enjoyable part of being a Disney nerd. I appreciate the knowledge I have gained through their delinquent behavior... that’s it. It’s obvious they loved Disney too. They were in it for themselves.

I can’t tell you how many awesome other blogs I found through theirs...Imagineering Disney, Passport2dreams, several others...

I enjoyed the video. That’s it. And yeah, I lift my Germany Pavilion acrylic mug that cost me $17 to them both.

Can't really disagree with that.

 

[mergatroid]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Yes, a large part of H&C's adventures in Horizons were "to document it." But they clearly went beyond the scope of that in every video, sitting with AAs, stealing little bits here and there (granted, it was slated to be demolished). I don't think it was quite as "innocent" as some are making it out to be.

And let's not forget, both were injured in doing this. Hoot hurt his foot (which apparently still hurts today) and Chief bashed his head pretty badly.

Sneaking around these things, in the dark is extremely dangerous. There are a LOT of unforgiving, moving parts in there. They're lucky on a few levels.

...and they weren't the first.

They also filmed the same stuff repeatedly, there was much more than just documenting going on there. I'm glad they did it as it gave me access to stuff I shouldn't have seen but was able to. They seem much 'nicer' guys than Matt does, ultimately though both did the same thing (though possibly for different reasons, though I'm not 100% sure of that)

 

[BoarderPhreak]

They also filmed the same stuff repeatedly, there was much more than just documenting going on there. I'm glad they did it as it gave me access to stuff I shouldn't have seen but was able to. They seem much 'nicer' guys than Matt does, ultimately though both did the same thing (though possibly for different reasons, though I'm not 100% sure of that)

Well, yeah... I do appreciate the behind the scenes look and "documentation" of Horizons. I'm one of those that sorely miss it (and perhaps more so, the message).

 

[The Empress Lilly]

That’s their argument.

Am I glad Dave and Ed did what they did at Horizons back then? Yes. Do I condone it? No.

I’ve experienced first hand the trouble and problems the recent “explorers” have caused. Their actions caused a problem for me. And I was doing nothing wrong. I won’t go into details, but personally I have reasons to dislike what they’re doing aside from any other reason.

Is it me or is Disney much more on edge about guests straying off the beaten path lately?

I seem to attract attention every time my inner WDW nerd checks out something nowadays, and I actually take care not to go to places I'm not supposed to. Just things like walking back and forth the outside of Energy before it closed got me a private security guard surprisingly soon.

 

[draybook]

So which is it, Brer and other anti-Sonswa folks? Is it "rules are rules" or is it "it's all about intent"? Either you're breaking the rules or you're not. Also, in that Horizons video, you can clearly see one of the guys touch a moving belt with grease which was obviously a part of a working machine in the attraction. I guess that's not wreckless enough to register on your Sonswa scales, huh?

 

[BoarderPhreak]

Is it me or is Disney much more on edge about guests straying off the beaten path lately?

I seem to attract attention every time my inner WDW nerd checks out something nowadays, and I actually take care not to go to places I'm not supposed to. Just things like walking back and forth the outside of Energy before it closed got me a private security guard surprisingly soon.

See also: #FindBuzzy

Someone kicked the hornet's nest recently.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

As for Hoot and Chief, the person buying the stolen goods is as bad as the thief.

That is, I gobbled up their blog and loved everything about it. Which makes me an accomplice. Or anybody who consumes their videos and writings.

Everybody who breaks the law has an inner justification. Such as a sob story, entitlement issues, or plain daftness. In this case, my justification is frustration at the destruction of this piece of art. I can't help it. I take great delight in the adventures of these two guys.

 

[Seabasealpha1]

So which is it, Brer and other anti-Sonswa folks? Is it "rules are rules" or is it "it's all about intent"? Either you're breaking the rules or you're not. Also, in that Horizons video, you can clearly see one of the guys touch a moving belt with grease which was obviously a part of a working machine in the attraction. I guess that's not wreckless enough to register on your Sonswa scales, huh?

It’s ”don’t freaking do it” coupled with a bunch of us holding up score cards for the different exploration teams...

 

[draybook]

It’s ”don’t freaking do it” coupled with a bunch of us holding up score cards for the different exploration teams...

View attachment 338982

Sadly, I can only like this instead of using a laugh button. Well said.

 

[Seabasealpha1]

Sadly, I can only like this instead of using a laugh button. Well said.

I know what you’re saying too...complete respect to what you’re saying.

 

[Brer Oswald]

So which is it, Brer and other anti-Sonswa folks? Is it "rules are rules" or is it "it's all about intent"? Either you're breaking the rules or you're not. Also, in that Horizons video, you can clearly see one of the guys touch a moving belt with grease which was obviously a part of a working machine in the attraction. I guess that's not wreckless enough to register on your Sonswa scales, huh?

It’s all technically “wrong”. But I don’t know, there just seems to have been a purpose with what the older urban explorers documented. Sonswa really isn’t doing anything new, and when he does, it’s not stuff anyone really asked for. We’ve all seen abandoned Wonders of Life several times. We’ve already seen Discovery Island and River Country after they’ve closed. Nobody was asking him to climb a currently in operation roller coaster that has the least amount of “hidden areas”. The only bone I’ll throw him is the Private Plane, although I don’t condone what he did. But I don’t necessarily condone what Hoot and Chief did either. I don’t really care about Sonswa, didn’t even know about him before last week. But he just seems very arrogant, and I don’t respect that at all.

You also have to consider the massive time and era difference between the two. It’s like holding a person from the 30s who made a racially comment to today’s standards. Yes, it is equally as wrong and offensive. But the perceptions of the past are different from those of today. H & C knew what they were doing was “breaking the rules”, but the drastic consequences of repeating the same actions today weren’t as evident.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

The BTMR video is just for the sake of doing it, to get more subscribers or clicks. There's no "documentation" value if you're climbing around in utter darkness and showing nothing behind the scenes. So that excuse definitely does not apply in this case. The plane, that's a different story. Either way, if he gets caught he's going to be in a world of hurt. Another trespass charge is a given, and I doubt the legal system will be as accommodating this time around.

 

[mergatroid]

The BTMR video is just for the sake of doing it, to get more subscribers or clicks. There's no "documentation" value if you're climbing around in utter darkness and showing nothing behind the scenes. So that excuse definitely does not apply in this case. The plane, that's a different story. Either way, if he gets caught he's going to be in a world of hurt. Another trespass charge is a given, and I doubt the legal system will be as accommodating this time around.

To be fair I don't think he really claims to be documenting anything. It's a shame if he ends up hurting himself or going to prison for this, it's not worth it.

 

[donnylambb]

wow this was awesome I wish I could of rode the ride but closed before I discovered disney

 

[mergatroid]

The difference between Hoot/Chief and modern day explorers is the fact that the internet is a thing. I believe that Sonswa and others do it for the clicks and revenue, while Hoot and Chief did it because they genuinely loved Horizons. If they had been caught, I think they would have been respectful enough to follow the rules, including not entering WDW if they got banned. If YouTube had existed in the 90s, I don't think they would have posted all their footage online immediately, because they wouldn't want to ruin it for themselves and indirectly tell Disney that there was an exploration issue in Horizons.

Probably true but how would that explain them gaining access to the MK at night and climbing Splash Mountain during it's construction? I really don't think it makes any difference to the reasons why people shouldn't do these things, one shouldn't really be excused whilst the other condemned? They can be of course, but it's not really fair doing so.