Haunted Mansion to Return with New Enhancements and Magic :(

[Homemade Imagineering]

IASW isn't going anywhere.

They might swap out a few dolls here and there to make them more culturally sensitive, but it's arguably the next most iconic attraction after Pirates and Mansion and it has killer ride capacity that they would miss desperately if they took it out.

Changes to Splash and Jungle Cruise, contrary to misguided rumor, does not mean that someday Disney will burn the park and all its icons to the ground.

This.

 

[Brer Oswald]

IASW isn't going anywhere.

They might swap out a few dolls here and there to make them more culturally sensitive, but it's arguably the next most iconic attraction after Pirates and Mansion and it has killer ride capacity that they would miss desperately if they took it out.

Changes to Splash and Jungle Cruise, contrary to misguided rumor, does not mean that someday Disney will burn the park and all its icons to the ground.

I don’t want it to go. It’s my second favourite attraction, and honestly, I think it’s even more iconic than the Haunted Mansion.

But there is a base framework that can be misconstrued if they wanted to replace it with something else.

 

[mickEblu]

IASW isn't going anywhere.

They might swap out a few dolls here and there to make them more culturally sensitive, but it's arguably the next most iconic attraction after Pirates and Mansion and it has killer ride capacity that they would miss desperately if they took it out.

Changes to Splash and Jungle Cruise, contrary to misguided rumor, does not mean that someday Disney will burn the park and all its icons to the ground.

We’re in a period of unprecedented change to the iconic attractions and I think it just kind of startled the core fans, myself included. Between all the rethemes, refreshes and big additions like SWL there has been a lot going on. I can live with most of them but the Splash change is tough. I think we’ll be coming out of this era in the next couple years and will then have at least another 2 decades where things are status quo for the most part at DL except for a new Tomorrowland - I hope. With that said, would it shock me if Storybookland got the ax for some Beauty and the Beast or Frozen addition also using the FL theatre real estate? No.

 

[Brer Oswald]

We’re in a period of unprecedented change to the iconic attractions and I think it just kind of startled the core fans, myself included. Between all the rethemes, refreshes and big additions like SWL there has been a lot going on. I can live with most of them but the Splash change is tough. I think we’ll be coming out of this era in the next couple years and will then have at least another 2 decades where things are status quo for the most part at DL except for a new Tomorrowland - I hope. With that said, would it shock me if Storybookland got the ax for some Beauty and the Beast or Frozen addition also using the FL theatre real estate? No.

It would suck (Storybookland that is), but it wouldn’t surprise me.

 

[mickEblu]

It would suck (Storybookland that is), but it wouldn’t surprise me.

It would be it up there for me with Splash. Maybe even worse because of its location in the park, history and what it means to Fantasyland.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Was POTC ever closed for a similar change of ride system? Being that they were of similar vintage and used similar vehicles and ride systems?

If so, did they do that when they added the movie changes originally?

The issue has come up at Pirates of the Caribbean which has most notably been seen with the more botany boats. To my knowledge the entire flume has not been replaced, but the ride also does not use the isolated trough that is used at “it’s a small world”.

 

[WillWrambles]

Remember, the one thing constant in the world is change. It sucks, can hurt, and will hit ya like a ton of bricks, but that’s how it’s always been.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Remember, the one thing constant in the world is change. It sucks, can hurt, and will hit ya like a ton of bricks, but that’s how it’s always been.

And? Doesn’t mean it is always desirable or good.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I don’t want it to go. It’s my second favourite attraction, and honestly, I think it’s even more iconic than the Haunted Mansion.

But there is a base framework that can be misconstrued if they wanted to replace it with something else.

I disagree.

The base framework is exactly what people have always said it is-unity among all people and cultures. There's nothing that can be misconstrued about that. Now, in time they may feel the need to update a few figures that may come to be perceived as insensitive, but there's nothing inherently tied to something at a foundational level that could lead the entire thing to be misconstrued as entirely racist or problematic.

Splash and Jungle Cruise had things that could clearly be pointed to and things that had been discussed by others in the past. For Splash, it was seen as a foundational component of the attraction. Jungle Cruise, less so. Which is why Splash is being totally redone and Jungle Cruise will mostly still be the same as always.

We’re in a period of unprecedented change to the iconic attractions and I think it just kind of startled the core fans, myself included. Between all the rethemes, refreshes and big additions like SWL there has been a lot going on. I can live with most of them but the Splash change is tough. I think we’ll be coming out of this era in the next couple years and will then have at least another 2 decades where things are status quo for the most part at DL except for a new Tomorrowland - I hope. With that said, would it shock me if Storybookland got the ax for some Beauty and the Beast or Frozen addition also using the FL theatre real estate? No.

That's definitely true that there's been a lot of changes in a short amount of time, and the way Disney has come to view itself and the parks has changed. But I'm not convinced that this necessarily means that an infinite number of changes are coming.

So far as I'm concerned, the things that could be construed as problematic from a racial or societal perspective have been or are currently being dealt with. I'm not sure what else there really is other than maybe swapping out the Peter Pan Indians. So those sorts of changes, I think, are nearing their end.

Of course, I can't guarantee that I'll be correct in this, but in all honesty the only things that are iconic that I feel have a decent chance of outright removal is Lincoln-not because it's "not PC" or anything that people have said along those lines, but simply because, as much as everyone loves it, it's had popularity problems that date back to the 1970's (It would frankly probably be better preserved and attended at the Disney Family Museum at this point in all honesty)-and the subs, because of what an operational headache they are. Everything else may change or evolve or devolve but is likely here to stay, in my view.

 

[WillWrambles]

And? Doesn’t mean it is always desirable or good.

And that’s the point. Change is gonna happen, wether you like it or not. The best thing one can do is appreciate what they’ve got right now. Who knows how much longer you’ll have it?

 

[Brer Oswald]

It would be it up there for me with Splash. Maybe even worse because of its location in the park, history and what it means to Fantasyland.

I don’t even thing the ride in particular is that great, but it is visually integral to Fantasyland’s appeal. The Monstro and Flowerbed are so iconic.

 

[mickEblu]

I disagree.

The base framework is exactly what people have always said it is-unity among all people and cultures. There's nothing that can be misconstrued about that. Now, in time they may feel the need to update a few figures that may come to be perceived as insensitive, but there's nothing inherently tied to something at a foundational level that could lead the entire thing to be misconstrued as entirely racist or problematic.

Splash and Jungle Cruise had things that could clearly be pointed to and things that had been discussed by others in the past. For Splash, it was seen as a foundational component of the attraction. Jungle Cruise, less so. Which is why Splash is being totally redone and Jungle Cruise will mostly still be the same as always.

That's definitely true that there's been a lot of changes in a short amount of time, and the way Disney has come to view itself and the parks has changed. But I'm not convinced that this necessarily means that an infinite number of changes are coming.

So far as I'm concerned, the things that could be construed as problematic from a racial or societal perspective have been or are currently being dealt with. I'm not sure what else there really is other than maybe swapping out the Peter Pan Indians. So those sorts of changes, I think, are nearing their end.

Of course, I can't guarantee that I'll be correct in this, but in all honesty the only things that are iconic that I feel have a decent chance of outright removal is Lincoln-not because it's "not PC" or anything that people have said along those lines, but simply because, as much as everyone loves it, it's had popularity problems that date back to the 1970's (It would frankly probably be better preserved and attended at the Disney Family Museum at this point in all honesty)-and the subs, because of what an operational headache they are. Everything else may change or evolve or devolve but is likely here to stay, in my view.

I’ll be honest I’ve only seen Lincoln once. I wouldn’t miss the show but I like the idea of him being there. Particularly, I like the fact that the Opera House is understated and works beautifully at the entrance of Main Street. It’s old school Disneyland and the lobby is pretty quiet for the most part. I’d hate to lose all that.

 

[mickEblu]

I don’t even thing the ride in particular is that great, but it is visually integral to Fantasyland’s appeal. The Monstro and Flowerbed are so iconic.

Exactly - it’s the heart of Fantasyland. Although I’d like to think they would find a way for Monstro and that Flowerbed to stay. Either way it would be a terrible loss.

I do ride Casey Jr every few trips and find it delightful but I also have a young boy. It’s definitely in my Top 10 rides at DL.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I disagree.

The base framework is exactly what people have always said it is-unity among all people and cultures. There's nothing that can be misconstrued about that. Now, in time they may feel the need to update a few figures that may come to be perceived as insensitive, but there's nothing inherently tied to something at a foundational level that could lead the entire thing to be misconstrued as entirely racist or problematic.

Splash and Jungle Cruise had things that could clearly be pointed to and things that had been discussed by others in the past. For Splash, it was seen as a foundational component of the attraction. Jungle Cruise, less so. Which is why Splash is being totally redone and Jungle Cruise will mostly still be the same as always.

Despite its optimistic message, Small World has been long accused of cultural appropriation at its foundation. You do know that was the issue with Splash/SotS, right? I don’t expect the general public to know, but for hardcore Disney fans, it should be common knowledge that the animated characters were not invented by Disney, and were a part of a different background’s culture.

Of course, the situation is different. Small World is public, and SotS is hidden. It’s much easier to convince the public of something when they can’t easily access it. But the underlying issues (the actual issues, not the perceived ones) aren’t that far off.

As far as I’m concerned, the Jungle Cruise case was the most offensive. How did that escape without any public outcry before hand? There was what, 5-6 months between Splash and that announcement. People aren’t very attentive.

 

[mickEblu]

Despite its optimistic message, Small World has been long accused of cultural appropriation at its foundation. You do know that was the issue with Splash/SotS, right? I don’t expect the general public to know, but for hardcore Disney fans, it should be common knowledge that the animated characters were not invented by Disney, and were a part of a different background’s culture.

Of course, the situation is different. Small World is public, and SotS is hidden. It’s much easier to convince the public of something when they can’t easily access it. But the underlying issues (the actual issues, not the perceived ones) aren’t that far off.

As far as I’m concerned, the Jungle Cruise case was the most offensive. How did that escape without any public outcry before hand? There was what, 5-6 months between Splash and that announcement. People aren’t very attentive.

Probably because we just all woke up one day and deemed these 60 year old rides offensive overnight. That’s the Twilight Zone part of this whole thing to me. Yesterday almost nobody was talking about these rides being problematic and then today it’s like “oh ya it’s gotta go.”

 

[Brer Oswald]

Probably because we just all woke up one day and deemed these 60 year old rides offensive overnight. That’s the Twilight Zone part of this whole thing to me. Yesterday almost nobody was talking about these rides being problematic and then today it’s like “oh ya it’s gotta go.”

It’s just surprising to me that people don’t see the bigger issue here. SotS’s biggest crime is that it was a poorly viewed adaptation of the Brer Rabbit cultural stories, and I cannot deny how much damage it’s mere existence has caused.

But for 30 years, Splash Mountain was an adaptation that succeeded. Everyone loved it. What failed as a film succeeded as a ride. It’s biggest fault was not attributing the proper credit and making that clear to the public. That is what should have been addressed last year.

People don’t get it, or they just don’t care. I don’t know. I can’t fault them entirely for not understanding. The ride can go, but the wrong has not been made right until there is something is created to pay tribute to these stories and their origins.

For Small World, the message is clear. But people will try to smear it for something more relevant, and if it succeeds, will people jump ship to save face? I fully expect it. Tons of “Small World was always racist” comments.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Despite its optimistic message, Small World has been long accused of cultural appropriation at its foundation. You do know that was the issue with Splash/SotS, right? I don’t expect the general public to know, but for hardcore Disney fans, it should be common knowledge that the animated characters were not invented by Disney, and were a part of a different background’s culture.

Of course, the situation is different. Small World is public, and SotS is hidden. It’s much easier to convince the public of something when they can’t easily access it. But the underlying issues (the actual issues, not the perceived ones) aren’t that far off.

As far as I’m concerned, the Jungle Cruise case was the most offensive. How did that escape without any public outcry before hand? There was what, 5-6 months between Splash and that announcement. People aren’t very attentive.

The contested nature of the authorship of the stories for SOTS is part of it, but I think the biggest issue is simply "Disney made a film that many, including higher up at Disney, believe to be racist, therefore they didn't release it but thought it was totally ok to make a ride out of it, this is wrong." I think fewer people are focused on who exactly created and can claim ownership of the stories compared to that simple fact. Whether or not any of us believe that is immaterial because Disney has decided that this is the case and so has decided to make significant changes to the ride, thus showing their thoughts on the subject.

Probably because we just all woke up one day and deemed these 60 year old rides offensive overnight.

Cultures change and evolve. No culture or country is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago. I'm not the same person I was ten years ago and I imagine most people would be able to say the same thing. People and cultures changes and evolve. Things that were ok come to be looked in a different light. It happens.

That said, none of these changes are really things that happened overnight. People have been talking about the problematic nature of the Peter Pan Indian scenes from the film for years. People have talked about the Jungle Cruise figures for years. People have known about the SOTS controversy, whether or not they believed it to be true, for years. Just because not everyone was talking about it, or we weren't talking about it ourselves, doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Brand new to us does not mean brand new to the world.

 

[Brer Oswald]

The contested nature of the authorship of the stories is part of it, but I think the biggest issue is simply "Disney made a film that many, including higher up at Disney, believe to be racist, therefore they didn't release it but thought it was totally ok to make a ride out of it, this is wrong." I think fewer people are focused on who exactly created and can claim ownership of the stories compared to that simple fact. Whether or not any of us believe that is immaterial because Disney has decided that this is the case and so has decided to make significant changes to the ride, thus showing their thoughts on the subject.

Cultures change and evolve. No culture or country is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago. I'm not the same person I was ten years ago and I imagine most people would be able to say the same thing. People and cultures changes and evolve. Things that were ok come to be looked in a different light. It happens.

That said, none of these changes are really things that happened overnight. People have been talking about the problematic nature of the Peter Pan Indian scenes from the film for years. People have talked about the Jungle Cruise figures for years. People have known about the SOTS controversy, whether or not they believed it to be true, for years. Just because not everyone was talking about it, or we weren't talking about it ourselves, doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Brand new to us does not mean brand new to the world.

The origin of the stories isn’t debatable. Disney is going to make the decision they think is best for the financials. It is what it is, but I’ve seen fans that know better go along with it like it’s a wonderfully moral decision. Is it just to save face?

The fact that the general public isn’t looking at the actual issue isn’t surprising. I can’t blame the general public because they obviously aren’t focused on niche Brer Rabbit history. Again, it’s the Disney Fans and others that know better that disappoint me the most. Because yes, it is difficult to stand up and question, especially when the consensus wants to unrightfully label you as something evil. It’s hard, and yet some of us do it anyways, without hurting or attacking, because we know it’s right. There people that know, don’t care, and are complicit. Life isn’t fair, but that doesn’t mean you sit down and take it.

There are certainly people that just care about the ride, and not the underlying issues I talked about. Their lack of care doesn’t make others’ lack of care justified.

 

[CaptinEO]

Then people might as well be in favor of the complete removal of PotC and the HM.

The bloggers are given special access to events and press passes. Whatever changes are proposed they will act excited about to keep this affiliation.

Disney online culture now is all about drinking the kool aid. The park has used bots, bloggers, youtubers, and social media to its advantage.

This site remains one of the only places online where you can have criticism of Disney.

Micechat, one of the largest sites that was critical of Disney, now has puff pieces promoting every Disney event and merchandise release.

It's incredibly scary. Disney classics will be replaced. In the late 90s/ early 2000s youd have vocal fan campaigns to save rides. Now all of that is silenced by an overwhelming "consumer" army.

 

[mickEblu]

The contested nature of the authorship of the stories is part of it, but I think the biggest issue is simply "Disney made a film that many, including higher up at Disney, believe to be racist, therefore they didn't release it but thought it was totally ok to make a ride out of it, this is wrong." I think fewer people are focused on who exactly created and can claim ownership of the stories compared to that simple fact. Whether or not any of us believe that is immaterial because Disney has decided that this is the case and so has decided to make significant changes to the ride, thus showing their thoughts on the subject.

Cultures change and evolve. No culture or country is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago. I'm not the same person I was ten years ago and I imagine most people would be able to say the same thing. People and cultures changes and evolve. Things that were ok come to be looked in a different light. It happens.

That said, none of these changes are really things that happened overnight. People have been talking about the problematic nature of the Peter Pan Indian scenes from the film for years. People have talked about the Jungle Cruise figures for years. People have known about the SOTS controversy, whether or not they believed it to be true, for years. Just because not everyone was talking about it, or we weren't talking about it ourselves, doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Brand new to us does not mean brand new to the world.

I’m not saying these things were NEVER talked about but I don’t see how you can deny the main point in making. That the company decided to do a 180 over night and many people just went along with them as if they hadn’t been riding these rides and enjoying these attraction with their families without giving it a second thought. Some of those very people now question those of us who are a little confused or even go as far as call us insensitive or racist.

Did we all see the dress code change announcement? So if understand correctly, Male CMs can wear nail polish now at Disneyland? Like 2 days ago they couldn't have a beard.