Haunted Mansion Refurb

[unkadug]

Rumor has it they're swapping out Madame Leota for a floating Groot head.

Perhaps they are adding Anna and Elsa to the Graveyard Scene in place of the singing busts.

 

[tirian]

Well FP+ would avoid that problem if they simply didn't offer it for Haunted Mansion, Pirates, and Small World. In Shanghai, they don't offer fastpass for Pirates. What about the actual system itself would cause operational issues?

You seem to be confusing "operations" with "mechanical operations." When I say "Ops," I mean it in the Disney sense—loosely defined as daily operations within the parks. This covers crowd control, attraction throughout, etc.

Here's one example. By creating artificially long lines at large capacity attractions, FP+ has affected Ops by decreasing hourly throughput in some of the locations. Consider that POTC has two loading decks, but if few guests are picking up FPs, everyone is backed up on one side even though every other boat is empty. Sometimes the attraction CMs can help by splitting the standby queue and sending guests to the FP side, but that's only if scheduling allows the position.

POTC is then operating below its capacity, making queues longer and crowds more difficult to manage. It also leads to decreased guest satisfaction.

Remember, FP+ was added to those attractions because it was originally a shell game. Someone sold execs on the idea that by moving guests around from pre-scheduled queue to pre-scheduled queue, the company wouldn't have to invest in new attractions to absorb crowds. It seemed like a win-win situation: eventually, guests would schedule their entire days in advance and Disney wouldn't have to build multiple expensive attractions. It was an incredibly shortsighted and arrogant plan that also assumed guests were addicted to Disney and wouldn't care that the parks were becoming stale. Then Potter happened.

Back during the days of FP+ testing, front-line Ops CMs repeatedly complained that the system wasn't working. After Disney added FP+ to the omnimovers and boat rides anyway, front-line CMs were proven correct, and the system has had to be tweaked repeatedly to fix a problem that didn't exist before a substantial and unneeded investment.

 

[JenniferS]

You seem to be confusing "operations" with "mechanical operations." When I say "Ops," I mean it in the Disney sense—loosely defined as daily operations within the parks. This covers crowd control, attraction throughout, etc.

Here's one example. By creating artificially long lines at large capacity attractions, FP+ has affected Ops by decreasing hourly throughput in some of the locations. Consider that POTC has two loading decks, but if few guests are picking up FPs, everyone is backed up on one side even though every other boat is empty. Sometimes the attraction CMs can help by splitting the standby queue and sending guests to the FP side, but that's only if scheduling allows the position.

POTC is then operating below its capacity, making queues longer and crowds more difficult to manage. It also leads to decreased guest satisfaction.

Remember, FP+ was added to those attractions because it was originally a shell game. Someone sold execs on the idea that by moving guests around from pre-scheduled queue to pre-scheduled queue, the company wouldn't have to invest in new attractions to absorb crowds. It seemed like a win-win situation: eventually, guests would schedule their entire days in advance and Disney wouldn't have to build multiple expensive attractions. It was an incredibly shortsighted and arrogant plan that also assumed guests were addicted to Disney and wouldn't care that the parks were becoming stale. Then Potter happened.

Back during the days of FP+ testing, front-line Ops CMs repeatedly complained that the system wasn't working. After Disney added FP+ to the omnimovers and boat rides anyway, front-line CMs were proven correct, and the system has had to be tweaked repeatedly to fix a problem that didn't exist before a substantial and unneeded investment.

Is there any chance that WDW would ever do away with the FP+ portion of the MM+ experience?

Keep the bands as an alternative to the cards for park admission, charging, and room entry, but dump the FP+. Given that they've removed all the paper FP dispensers, I don't know how they would accomplish this. Perhaps instead of having the machines in front of each attraction, they could be kept in a number of centralized locations, where you could choose from a number of FP options - one at a time.

Is TDO's ego too big to admit that they have royally screwed up a system that worked just fine?

 

[IanDLBZF]

I wish they would just do away with FP altogether at attractions that don't freaking need it. That's my biggest peeve with the new system, having to waste a dang fastpass on HM and Pirates now because the standby line is ridiculous. If it was limited to the major attractions like before, it would be a home run for me.

Better yet why not offer FP seasonally for attractions that don't need it!

 

[Disone]

You seem to be confusing "operations" with "mechanical operations." When I say "Ops," I mean it in the Disney sense—loosely defined as daily operations within the parks. This covers crowd control, attraction throughout, etc.

Here's one example. By creating artificially long lines at large capacity attractions, FP+ has affected Ops by decreasing hourly throughput in some of the locations. Consider that POTC has two loading decks, but if few guests are picking up FPs, everyone is backed up on one side even though every other boat is empty. Sometimes the attraction CMs can help by splitting the standby queue and sending guests to the FP side, but that's only if scheduling allows the position.

POTC is then operating below its capacity, making queues longer and crowds more difficult to manage. It also leads to decreased guest satisfaction.

Remember, FP+ was added to those attractions because it was originally a shell game. Someone sold execs on the idea that by moving guests around from pre-scheduled queue to pre-scheduled queue, the company wouldn't have to invest in new attractions to absorb crowds. It seemed like a win-win situation: eventually, guests would schedule their entire days in advance and Disney wouldn't have to build multiple expensive attractions. It was an incredibly shortsighted and arrogant plan that also assumed guests were addicted to Disney and wouldn't care that the parks were becoming stale. Then Potter happened.

Back during the days of FP+ testing, front-line Ops CMs repeatedly complained that the system wasn't working. After Disney added FP+ to the omnimovers and boat rides anyway, front-line CMs were proven correct, and the system has had to be tweaked repeatedly to fix a problem that didn't exist before a substantial and unneeded investment.

There is always a cast member at the pirates merge point where both FP and standby can be directed to a particular dock, at least in my experience which is to say is litterally at least weekly, but no, not always on the same day. Honestly, FP+ should not have any more of an impact on capacity then paper FP. In fact, vs. paper FP, it may have higher capacity due to the restriction of three, AND so many more attractions having it which means many guest will unknowingly use one for an attraction they don't need to reserve. There are less loop holes in FP+ verus paper which also allows for less loss of virtual capacity.

I do wish they would not use it for POTC and HM. But most guests don't understand that with it, the stand by wait is 60 minutes, and with out it its 20. With out it, they would just see the 20 and that there isn't a fast pass line.

 

[peter11435]

You seem to be confusing "operations" with "mechanical operations." When I say "Ops," I mean it in the Disney sense—loosely defined as daily operations within the parks. This covers crowd control, attraction throughout, etc.

Here's one example. By creating artificially long lines at large capacity attractions, FP+ has affected Ops by decreasing hourly throughput in some of the locations. Consider that POTC has two loading decks, but if few guests are picking up FPs, everyone is backed up on one side even though every other boat is empty. Sometimes the attraction CMs can help by splitting the standby queue and sending guests to the FP side, but that's only if scheduling allows the position.

POTC is then operating below its capacity, making queues longer and crowds more difficult to manage. It also leads to decreased guest satisfaction.

Remember, FP+ was added to those attractions because it was originally a shell game. Someone sold execs on the idea that by moving guests around from pre-scheduled queue to pre-scheduled queue, the company wouldn't have to invest in new attractions to absorb crowds. It seemed like a win-win situation: eventually, guests would schedule their entire days in advance and Disney wouldn't have to build multiple expensive attractions. It was an incredibly shortsighted and arrogant plan that also assumed guests were addicted to Disney and wouldn't care that the parks were becoming stale. Then Potter happened.

Back during the days of FP+ testing, front-line Ops CMs repeatedly complained that the system wasn't working. After Disney added FP+ to the omnimovers and boat rides anyway, front-line CMs were proven correct, and the system has had to be tweaked repeatedly to fix a problem that didn't exist before a substantial and unneeded investment.

Your example at POTC is completely false. Fast pass and standby are merged at pirates a good bit before the load docks. This position is always staffed from park open to park close unless they are only utilizing one load dock. If boats are going empty as you say it has nothing to do with lack of fast pass demand it's would be the result of this cast member not doing there job properly. And that is highly unlikely because the queue after merge can accommodate several boats worth of guests.

Fastpass does make the standby line move more slowly than in the past Not necessarily always longer just more slowly, but in many cases it does make it longer. Fast pass DOES NOT result in lower capacity at attractions.

 

[Bocabear]

So....What about the Haunted Mansion Refurb??

 

[gmajew]

I wish they would just do away with FP altogether at attractions that don't freaking need it. That's my biggest peeve with the new system, having to waste a dang fastpass on HM and Pirates now because the standby line is ridiculous. If it was limited to the major attractions like before, it would be a home run for me.

Under 20 min is what both those lines have been every time I have gone to the parks. Both over spring break and summer. That is not bad. Posted times are over 30 even 40but never waited that long.

 

[gmajew]

So....What about the Haunted Mansion Refurb??

Yeah did they not just do exterior work last year?

 

[DisneyJayL]

I can't say this is my favorite ride at all. I just don't do well with death in any fashion. Kids seem to like it though.

 

[Bocabear]

I can't say this is my favorite ride at all. I just don't do well with death in any fashion. Kids seem to like it though.

That's why they have It's A Small World...

 

[ToTBellHop]

I can't say this is my favorite ride at all. I just don't do well with death in any fashion. Kids seem to like it though.

That must be rough. So many rides have implied death. JC, HM, GMR, TOT, Indy, Star Tours, Dinosaur, Energy, American Adventure.

 

[tirian]

There is always a cast member at the pirates merge point where both FP and standby can be directed to a particular dock, at least in my experience which is to say is litterally at least weekly, but no, not always on the same day. Honestly, FP+ should not have any more of an impact on capacity then paper FP. In fact, vs. paper FP, it may have higher capacity due to the restriction of three, AND so many more attractions having it which means many guest will unknowingly use one for an attraction they don't need to reserve. There are less loop holes in FP+ verus paper which also allows for less loss of virtual capacity.

I do wish they would not use it for POTC and HM. But most guests don't understand that with it, the stand by wait is 60 minutes, and with out it its 20. With out it, they would just see the 20 and ***** that there isn't a fast pass line.

As I said, they've added that position and made other tweaks to improve things. The best change IMO is making FPs from a smart phone.

 

[tirian]

Your example at POTC is completely false. Fast pass and standby are merged at pirates a good bit before the load docks. This position is always staffed from park open to park close unless they are only utilizing one load dock. If boats are going empty as you say it has nothing to do with lack of fast pass demand it's would be the result of this cast member not doing there job properly. And that is highly unlikely because the queue after merge can accommodate several boats worth of guests.

Fastpass does make the standby line move more slowly than in the past Not necessarily always longer just more slowly, but in many cases it does make it longer. Fast pass DOES NOT result in lower capacity at attractions.

They added that position, but it was not originally there after the inclusion of FP+. As I said, they've made changes and tweaks as necessary.

There's a reason Disney removed paper FP from the HM years ago, and why it wasn't included on Midway Mania or Mermaid at DCA. FP affects different ride systems in different ways, and the reasons are too complex to get into.

 

[tirian]

Is there any chance that WDW would ever do away with the FP+ portion of the MM+ experience?

Keep the bands as an alternative to the cards for park admission, charging, and room entry, but dump the FP+. Given that they've removed all the paper FP dispensers, I don't know how they would accomplish this. Perhaps instead of having the machines in front of each attraction, they could be kept in a number of centralized locations, where you could choose from a number of FP options - one at a time.

Is TDO's ego too big to admit that they have royally screwed up a system that worked just fine?

No. After years of testing and tweaking the system, FP+ works pretty well for most attractions. It can slow down the queues in people-eating rides, but that's something Disney already knew when it removed paper FP from HM years ago. It's also why DCA doesn't have FP on Midway Mania or Little Mermaid.

The overall MM initiative is not being repeated anywhere else in its current form at WDW. The program has been a money pit that required three IT teams to launch a bare-bones version that has been updated repeatedly and hasn't created a substantial ROI.

 

[tirian]

Better yet why not offer FP seasonally for attractions that don't need it!

They used to do that with the paper versions.

 

[Coaster Lover]

I kind of like the interactive portion of the Haunted Mansion queue... but I feel like by the time you get to that portion of the queue, you move past it so quickly you don't get to really enjoy it. It would have been nice if the graveyard portion of the queue was sort of a separate area (exhibit?) with the Haunted Mansion that you could walk through at your leisure without going through the queue. For example, plenty of kids may be scared of going on the Haunted Mansion (justified or not) and the graveyard is lighthearted enough that it would be a great place for those kids (with an adult) to wait and play while others are riding.

 

[MOXOMUMD]

Perhaps they are adding Anna and Elsa to the Graveyard Scene in place of the singing busts.

NOOO!

 

[Bocabear]

I kind of like the interactive portion of the Haunted Mansion queue... but I feel like by the time you get to that portion of the queue, you move past it so quickly you don't get to really enjoy it. It would have been nice if the graveyard portion of the queue was sort of a separate area (exhibit?) with the Haunted Mansion that you could walk through at your leisure without going through the queue. For example, plenty of kids may be scared of going on the Haunted Mansion (justified or not) and the graveyard is lighthearted enough that it would be a great place for those kids (with an adult) to wait and play while others are riding.

EXACTLY!!! that is sort of what Disneyland Paris did at their Mansion...it is at the exit, though the tone of the Paris mansion is decidedly creepier than ours... but that is exactly where the graveyard should have been...

 

[doctornick]

So, on the topic of the refurb.... it sounds like this is not an extensive closure. But previously, we had heard that HM would be getting a version of the Hatbox Ghost like DL had gotten -- is that on the table anytime soon for MK?