Haunted Mansion Ghosts?!?!

[Wannabe Walt]

I have read how they do they ghosts in the ballroom of the Haunted Mansion at WDW but they say it in really technical style. I can't understand half of what they are saying. I think it has to do something with mirrors and projectors. Am I right??? I also heard that when they designed the dancers they did it wrong, so if you look at them when you go by them the women are leading the men. It should be visa-versa. Well? How do they do the ghosts???

 

[fngoofy]

Here's How

The easiest way to explain it is this:

Go up to a department store glass door.

When you open it, stand so that you can see your reflection on the outside of the door.

When you get it half way open, look through the glass at what's in the store.

You will also see your own reflection in the glass, as well as what's in the store. Your reflection will look ghostly because you can see through it to the scene inside the store.

Imagine if you could push the door open so that it opens into the store, while you continue to stand outside.

Someone standing inside the store would see:
1. your reflection in the glass, and
2. what is on the other side of the glass,

But they WOULD NOT be seeing you directly, just your reflection.

This is how the ghost trick works in the mansion. You are seeing the reflection of figures that are above and below the ride path the doom buggies take.

What you don't notice is the glass that is between you and the real room you are looking down on. This reflects the images of the figures on the glass for you to see.

The tricky bit is that Disney has setup the figures to match the furniture in the room you are looking down on through the glass.

The figures are above and below you, litup with black light and other lighting effects, with a black backround behind them. This lets you just see the "ghosts" in the reflection, and helps them match up with the scene that is set in the ballroom.

I hope this helps, there are some behind the scenes pics at www.doombuggies.com

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by Wannabe Walt
I have read how they do they ghosts in the ballroom of the Haunted Mansion at WDW but they say it in really technical style. I can't understand half of what they are saying. I think it has to do something with mirrors and projectors. Am I right??? I also heard that when they designed the dancers they did it wrong, so if you look at them when you go by them the women are leading the men. It should be visa-versa. Well? How do they do the ghosts???

They use an old magicians trick called peppers ghost check out this link on how it works http://www.phantasmechanics.com/pepper.html


as far as the scene being reversed , it is because when they designed the scene they forgot to allow for the reversed images thru the glass

 

[Nickahlers]

While we're on the subject....

I keep reading in the guidebooks that the pre-show in Disneyworld/ Disnyland is slightly different. At one of them, the ceiling is getting taller and at the other one, the floor itself is lowering. Anyone know which is which?

 

[enfilm]

Re: While we're on the subject....

Originally posted by Nickahlers
I keep reading in the guidebooks that the pre-show in Disneyworld/ Disnyland is slightly different. At one of them, the ceiling is getting taller and at the other one, the floor itself is lowering. Anyone know which is which?

In Disneyland the stretching room goes down dropping the guests one level so they can walk under the train tracks to the show building (the entire ride is outside the berm). In florida the mansion is nowhere near the RR tracks so there's no need to go down a level so they made the ceiling go up instead.

Ed

 

[Son_of_Sam]

Originally posted by Wannabe Walt
I also heard that when they designed the dancers they did it wrong, so if you look at them when you go by them the women are leading the men. It should be visa-versa. Well?

They did it correctly, well sort of. They didn't think that the mirrors would make the immages backwards so therefore the women lead the men.

 

[raven]

Here you go. An example of how the effect is done:

http://photoalbums.wdwmagic.com/showphoto.php?photo=7263&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=2

 

[Al]

Re: Here's How

Originally posted by fngoofy
The easiest way to explain it is this:

Go up to a department store glass door.

When you open it, stand so that you can see your reflection on the outside of the door.

When you get it half way open, look through the glass at what's in the store.

You will also see your own reflection in the glass, as well as what's in the store. Your reflection will look ghostly because you can see through it to the scene inside the store.

Imagine if you could push the door open so that it opens into the store, while you continue to stand outside.

Someone standing inside the store would see:
1. your reflection in the glass, and
2. what is on the other side of the glass,

But they WOULD NOT be seeing you directly, just your reflection.

This is how the ghost trick works in the mansion. You are seeing the reflection of figures that are above and below the ride path the doom buggies take.

What you don't notice is the glass that is between you and the real room you are looking down on. This reflects the images of the figures on the glass for you to see.

The tricky bit is that Disney has setup the figures to match the furniture in the room you are looking down on through the glass.

The figures are above and below you, litup with black light and other lighting effects, with a black backround behind them. This lets you just see the "ghosts" in the reflection, and helps them match up with the scene that is set in the ballroom.

I hope this helps, there are some behind the scenes pics at www.doombuggies.com

That's a great explanation! Finally I understand! :wave: :sohappy:

 

[Piebald]

This is an old thread, but I figured I'd reply. In middle school, we went to MK real early and they showed us a little behind the scenes stuff. In fantasyland, we went through a CM ONLY door and it took us down a ramp (it wasn't a room, it lead to behind Fantasyland) and we saw a bunch of trucks and to the right was the entrace to the utilidors I think but we didn't go there. Instead we went through a door into a big building (by the way the whole backstage area was nothing. It just looked like the back of a supermarket or something). We went in through the door and it was weird because I don't remember much but I remember seeing a bunch of AA's except they had no color. The CM then told us to not to cross some line or else we might be in guest view. It turns out, we were under where the guests go in their vehicle and through the glass look down and see the ballroom scene. It was quite weird but really cool. I remember seeing mirrors and lights.

 

[MagicalMonorail]

Ok I've always wondered this. How big is the ballroom in HM? I know there are many tricks in there, but I didn't know if size was one of them. Is it really as big as we see it or is it actually smaller?

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by MagicalMonorail
Ok I've always wondered this. How big is the ballroom in HM? I know there are many tricks in there, but I didn't know if size was one of them. Is it really as big as we see it or is it actually smaller?

It's the size you see it as. All you're doing is looking down into the room through a few sheets of glass.

The trick is that you're seeing the reflection of animatronics "dancing" below the track, and of ones "flying" above the track. You see their reflections at the same time you're looking through the glass into the ballroom - that's it.

That's really the only illusion happening in the ballroom. The rest is just an elaborate set.

 

[DarkMeasures]

I am wondering, could this effect still work with Digital projects or would actual figures still be needed?

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by DarkMeasures
I am wondering, could this effect still work with Digital projects or would actual figures still be needed?

You have to have the actual figures. Projections would just end up as blurs of light on the glass in front of you, and you wouldn't get the illusion of depth or distance.

Read up a few posts to the person who described it like looking through a glass door into a store, but also seeing your own reflection at the same time. You look like a ghost beacuse you can see thru yourself into the store. Just like a mirror, which makes the reflected object look that same distance away "in the mirror", the real objects are a set distance back, above and below the track, so that they appear that same distance away in the ballroom.

It's really a pretty simple illusion, called "Pepper's Ghost" and there is no better way to pull it off.

 

[Captain Hank]

I've always wondered, what sort of angle is the piece of glass at? And is it one continuous piece of glass or several? I know, something strange to wonder about, but I have ever since I found out how the effect worked.

 

[enfilm]

The glass is vertical just like it would be in a regular window. Of course you're looking at the glass at an angle because you're a level above the ballroom floor. It's something like 5 big windows because one sheet of glass would have been too big.

Bit of trivia: in the California version one of the big windows cracked and they couldn't replace it without taking the building apart, so they disguised it with a cobweb. When they built the Paris version they ordered an extra window and built it into the building so that when it breaks they can replace it. I don't remember if the FL version has the extra window

I also noticed that they use the same effect in the spaceship earth. On the way down. where the vehicle flattens out and you look at the dioramas of people talking, you can see the person they're talking to kinda "ghosted"because there is an other diorama reflected in the glass. Only in this case the second diorama is above you rather than below you

 

[downwitheisner]

http://www.doombuggies.com/secrets_ballroom.htm

Pretty cool site.

 

[Dakotadogy]

I have been through the Haunted Manson twice when the Ball Room scene was not functioning properly. Both were back to back rides (Ok, within 20 minutes of each other -- back in 1994).

The first time, the far left of the scene was running out of sequence with the rest of it. For instance, a couple would dance from the right to the left. As they left the "in sequence right area", there will be a pause before they reached the left area. It actually helped clue me on the how the whole thing was put together with the reflection on the glass. I seem to remember, if you lean forward in the doombuggie and look down directly below you, the trails of light are visible from the projectors.

The error prompted my husband and I to rush back in line (which luckily was short) and re-ride. However, the second time as we approached the ball room area, an announcer said something to the effect that the "we regret to inform you, but do to techincal difficulties, the ball room scene is temporarily closed". This time, the entire ball room was black. The only that I could see was our own reflection in the glass as we went by. I assumed at the time that they had turned the film off to fix it and without the film, the glass appeared black. However, after hearing on this board that there is a whole actual ball room there, I guess they turned off the lights in the ball room to help keep the magic of this brilliant special effect.

How big is this room? Is it as big as it looks? Or is it another forced perception thing?

Michele

 

[Timekeeper]

Ghostbusters

The old Ghostbusters attraction at Universal Studios (Orlando) worked on exactly the same principle. The audience sat before a large wall of glass panels, behind which was the large set, or, "containment area." Because the audience didn't move, the ghosts needed to, such as the more free-moving Slimer. All of the ghosts were above the audience, on a large balcony, almost equal the size of the set area behind the glass.

Of course, the audience knew the glass was there, which was worked into the plot of the area being used to contain ghosts.


Also,

Many arcade game consoles work on the Pepper's principle in how they display images as a reflection of the tv monitor off glass placed at a 45 degree angle.

In Mission Space, you are looking at a reflection off a mirror of an LCD type of screen which is actually above the tilted mirror and facing downward.

Tk

 

[CoffeeJedi]

Many arcade game consoles work on the Pepper's principle in how they display images as a reflection of the tv monitor off glass placed at a 45 degree angle.

there's a shooting gallery game wherein you "blow apart" a ceramic mug, its a pepper's ghost of course (just look slightly to the side of the machine)
remember sega's time traveler? "holograms" lol

In Mission Space, you are looking at a reflection off a mirror of an LCD type of screen which is actually above the tilted mirror and facing downward.
Tk

hmm..... why didn't they just mount the actual lcd in front of you? at first i figured "safety" but then... i think i'd rather smack my face into an lcd monitor than a piece of glass, ouch!

 

[akorny1]

I'm sure someone has replied to you by now, but if not, I can clarify. Disneyland is actually and elevator and Disney World the ceiling raises.
Hope that helps.