Has Disney Pricing Increases/Atmosphere Cuts Altered YOUR FAMILIES WDW Attendance?

[Disney.Mike]

I believe PixarPerfect was referring to single-person households. A single-person households earning $80,000 a year is indeed upper class, as PixarPerfect indicated, as the term is defined by practically every legitimate polling group.

Here how much household income you'd need to have made in 2018 to be deemed "upper class":
Household of one: Minimum of $78,281
Household of two: Minimum of $110,706
Household of three: Minimum of $135,586
Household of four: Minimum of $156,561
Household of five: Minimum of $175,041

Here's how much money you have to earn to be considered upper-class

Pew Research Center breaks down how much money you have to earn each year to qualify as upper-class, or upper-income, in the United States, depending on the size of your family.

www.cnbc.com

It is very common for upper class people to be shocked and in complete denial about their privileged status in our society. They feel that they're struggling, but they don't consider how much more other people (such as the average American, who earns half as much as they earn) struggle.

I'm a family of 5 and just clear the Pew minimum for "upper class", but there is no way I would consider myself upper class. Even living in Mississippi (the poorest state in the country.). I'm not going to pretend I struggle, but i'm def high end middle class...

 

[PixarPerfect]

I actually think that is a natural progression of those who visit the parks over the years. When we first went, lol my late husband use to say just that "wdw is the only place where you get turned upside down, have all your money shaken off of you and you sign up to do it again". Over the years though once gets a sense of what is worth their money and what is not.

Now we are a bit opposite. I'm not driving off site or ever ever ever cooking a meal in my villa. for me time is more expensive than the few dollars we save going off site. When we first went, we ate mainly in the parks for just the reason you said, "ambiance and experience". Now that my kids are older, we much prefer the resort places or Disney springs.

I think over time one just naturally becomes more selective

This is what I've been thinking. There is such a thing as personal adjustment and burnout. Over time we all learn what we can skip and what's worth the wait. It's rare for us to hit every ride in a park and there are many smaller things that we'll skip. We'd rather have a leisurely breakfast, see what we want in the morning, sit down for lunch, ride some more, and then, like you, dine at a resort or Disney Springs.

We intentionally do not go to Disney every year because a) there's a big world out there to explore, and b) we don't want it to become so familiar that we notice things. We have this same approach to many places that we love, from restaurants to destinations. We want there to be an element of "fresh" each time we visit. We've found success by skipping a year or 2 (usually 2) between Disney visits. For us, this helps keep the magic.

 

[PixarPerfect]

I personally wish you would chill out on the personal attacks. I’m sorry you disagree with people here, but that’s no reason to talk to people the way you have.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with differing opinions.

I appreciate this, however, it would be nice if it was a universal policy. I've been personally--and repeatedly--attacked on this forum and thread simply for offering a differing opinions. Sadly, the people who attacked appear to think it's all in good sport, tee hee.

 

[Lilofan]

My family and I see this all the time. Stressed out guests with children in tow completely having a meltdown in public when the little things happen. Also trying to maximize every moment of the day in the limited amount of time they are at Disney and also melting in the brutal Florida summer temps just adds to their stress.

 

[PixarPerfect]

I'm a family of 5 and just clear the Pew minimum for "upper class", but there is no way I would consider myself upper class. Even living in Mississippi (the poorest state in the country.). I'm not going to pretend I struggle, but i'm def high end middle class...

You can argue with the PEW researchers but I don't think you will get you very far.

If you want to factor in location and other things like your education level, use this calculator from the PEW site (it's also highlighted in the article bUU posted): https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

The reason I mentioned the salary in the first place was to demonstrate that the middle class is no longer a strong buyer target. There are too many other life constraints that chip away at that lower income. There are ~100,000,000 households earning over $100,000 in the USA (30%). That's a more likely marketing target. Does that mean that no one from the middle or lower class goes to Disney? Of course not. It simply means that marketing dollars should be focused on the audience most likely to spend money in WDW.

Note the above is earnings, not net worth (earnings excludes retirees and the independently wealthy). Net worth is not easy data to obtain, which is why corporations often use earnings coupled with other data points (do you own your house, how many cars do you have, do you have at least a college degree, etc.) to focus their marketing efforts.

 

[Disney.Mike]

You can argue with the PEW researchers but I don't think you will get you very far.

If you want to factor in location and other things like your education level, use this calculator from the PEW site (it's also highlighted in the article bUU posted): https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

The reason I mentioned the salary in the first place was to demonstrate that the middle class is no longer a strong buyer target. There are too many other life constraints that chip away at that lower income. There are ~100,000,000 households earning over $100,000 in the USA (30%). That's a more likely marketing target. Does that mean that no one from the middle or lower class goes to Disney? Of course not. It simply means that marketing dollars should be focused on the audience most likely to spend money in WDW.

Note the above is earnings, not net worth (earnings excludes retirees and the independently wealthy). Net worth is not easy data to obtain, which is why corporations often use earnings coupled with other data points (do you own your house, how many cars do you have, do you have at least a college degree, etc.) to focus their marketing efforts.

So by those income metrics about 25% of the U.S. would be considered "upper class".

I can see 30% of households earning over 100k, NYC, SV, Chicago, and LA skew this. Looks like PEW took the whole numbers they liked then failed to adjust for location.

 

[PixarPerfect]

So by those income metrics about 25% of the U.S. would be considered "upper class".

Yes. You've seen a bell curve, right?

 

[Disney.Mike]

Yes. You've seen a bell curve, right?

Yes I know what a bell curve is lol. I disagree with this assessment by PEW though. I think it has to do with the changing definition of "middle class". It's been stated earlier that the purchasing power of the middle class has been chipped away - medical cost increasing, pensions disappearing forcing people to invest 10-15% of salary in 401k, housing price increasing beyond inflation and wage growth, education cost doing the same, vehicle prices doing the same, ect...

The point I'm making: If the lower "upper class" has purchasing power that is roughly equivalent to what the "middle class" had 20-40 years ago then shouldn't we either A) adjust the definitions of the classes or B) adjust the income ranges upward to more accurately reflect our reality.

I mean if you live in a 2 bedroom apartment, have 2 crappy cars, have no (or minimum retirement savings), live paycheck to paycheck, and are a broke arm away from bankruptcy... are you really "middle class"?

 

[PixarPerfect]

Yes I know what a bell curve is lol. I disagree with this assessment by PEW though. I think it has to do with the changing definition of "middle class". It's been stated earlier that the purchasing power of the middle class has been chipped away - medical cost increasing, pensions disappearing forcing people to invest 10-15% of salary in 401k, housing price increasing beyond inflation and wage growth, education cost doing the same, vehicle prices doing the same, ect...

The point I'm making: If the lower "upper class" has purchasing power that is roughly equivalent to what the "middle class" had 20-40 years ago then shouldn't we either A) adjust the definitions of the classes or B) adjust the income ranges upward to more accurately reflect our reality.

Yes, thank you for supporting my argument. If you go back and look at my posts you'll see that the middle class's weakened buying power has been my point all along. I'm the one who said that today's middle class doesn't have the same available cash as it did in the 1950s (Sir Walter Raleigh argued that the model to target the middle class was created back then and that Disney's wrong in changing it). That's also why I brought up the salary and mentioned the chipping away of every day expenses. The middle class is not a viable target today.

Like I said, you're welcome to argue with PEW. You won't be successful, but go ahead and give it a try, lol.

 

[ChipNDale79]

I agree. I feel like I was personally being attacked for sharing the opposite opinion with some people that frequent these threads. I wish that it didnt happen. The people that have been here repeated try to bully new users with their narrative. If you dont agree, they team up on the newer users like Nadertron and sirwalter did to me and the other people that didnt agree with logic while providing facts to back our opinions. I wish they would be more accepting of differing opnions and not just the old way of thinking they are always right because they have been posting for years.

I'll be perfectly honest with you, if i came across as bullying to you yesterday, then i'll apologize, and if i did, it was because i was put off with the way you talked to me. I offered an opinion on something, and you came across as if i was just stupid, wrong, and didnt have the right to say what i said.

I dont know how long i've been a member here, but i dont post often, i have less than 50 posts on this forum.

It's like anything in life, you get out of it what you put into it.

 

[Chi84]

I agree. I feel like I was personally being attacked for sharing the opposite opinion with some people that frequent these threads. I wish that it didnt happen. The people that have been here repeated try to bully new users with their narrative. If you dont agree, they team up on the newer users like Nadertron and sirwalter did to me and the other people that didnt agree with logic while providing facts to back our opinions. I wish they would be more accepting of differing opnions and not just the old way of thinking they are always right because they have been posting for years.

I understand how you feel, and you make a good point. I've found that regardless of which discussion forum you visit, if a thread goes on long enough, you will end up with the same handful of people throwing mud at one another until everyone gets bored and the thread dies. It's just the nature of these sites. The good news is that it's relatively easy to identify these folks quickly and to use the "ignore" function if you like. Trust me, you won't be missing anything important. I had a teacher who loved to say "an empty drum makes the most noise."

That said, these forums are a wealth of information for Disney goers - both new and experienced. I can't tell you how many things I've learned here that have improved my experience at WDW.

 

[Vacationeer]

{{{Group hugs}}}

 

[Benjamin_Nicholas]

I agree. I feel like I was personally being attacked for sharing the opposite opinion with some people that frequent these threads. I wish that it didnt happen. The people that have been here repeated try to bully new users with their narrative. If you dont agree, they team up on the newer users like Nadertron and sirwalter did to me and the other people that didnt agree with logic while providing facts to back our opinions. I wish they would be more accepting of differing opnions and not just the old way of thinking they are always right because they have been posting for years.

Eh. You've got to toughen up.

I'm new and frankly, don't care about folks who go to great lengths to disagree with me.

This is an internet message board. You're anonymous. Don't overthink this.

 

[Raineman]

Eh. You've got to toughen up.

I'm new and frankly, don't care about folks who go to great lengths to disagree with me.

This is an internet message board. You're anonymous. Don't overthink this.

As time goes on, I find it easier and easier to just keep scrolling when I see a comment that I disagree with so much that it angers me a little. Better to keep scrolling then typing up an emotional hot-take that will result in multiple emotional hot-takes from other posters.

 

[bUU]

Or, it could be that someone who insists on excoriating anyone who disagrees with him finds themselves in the middle of arguments. Put another way, if you feel like you’re surrounded by prats, you may actually be the prat....

Yet I didn't say anything about being "surrounded by prats" so this seems to be nothing more than yet another desperate attempt to distract attention away from legitimate comments you don't like but for which you have no legitimate response.

I'm sure you're far more intelligent than misconstruing what I wrote would indicate, but just in case I'll make clear that the comment to which you replied was making the point that the claim that this poll reflects the perspective of over a hundred thousand people was ludicrous because of how horrendously biased the sample was, a reflection of how a certain set of posters work very hard to make unwelcome new posters who don't have their default-negative attitude toward Disney, as ChipNDale79 pointed out earlier in the thread, and as confirmed by PixarPerfect's, Chi84's and mmcclory324's comments.

 

[bUU]

thats impossible for people to notice those things in online forums for four decades.

Precisely. If any of what they claimed to have noticed was real, the company would be bankrupt six times over by now rather than the parks getting more and more popular and more and more crowded, decade-over-decade. So those people who have been "noticing those things" (in online forums) for four decades were just engaging in the same default-negative behavior we see prevalent here, second-guessing the management of the company for their own personal reasons, which could very well be nothing more than frustration at not being able to afford what they want combined with a feeling that just expressing their personal frustration wouldn't hurt the company in the way they want to hurt the company in response to that frustration.

 

[bUU]

I'm a family of 5 and just clear the Pew minimum for "upper class", but there is no way I would consider myself upper class.

That's exactly the point. Like I said it is very common for upper class people to be shocked and in complete denial about their privileged status in our society. They feel that they're struggling, but they don't consider how much more other people (such as the average American, who earns half as much as they earn) struggle.

 

[bUU]

Yes I know what a bell curve is lol. I disagree with this assessment by PEW though.

They're well-regarded researchers. Please point to another institution that defines "upper class" some other way, rather than just trying to claim that you, a random person posting with an alias on the Internet, should be respected as an authority over an institute of well-regarded researchers.

I think it has to do with the changing definition of "middle class". It's been stated earlier that the purchasing power of the middle class has been chipped away - medical cost increasing, pensions disappearing forcing people to invest 10-15% of salary in 401k, housing price increasing beyond inflation and wage growth, education cost doing the same, vehicle prices doing the same, ect...

None of that actually changes where people stand with regard to income bands. People defined as upper class are still at the very top, with the vast majority of other people living off far less than they are.

 

[bUU]

Eh. You've got to toughen up.

So basically you think that everyone who that cabal of posters attacks should post in kind, like I do? I think it would be better if the cabal stopped posting like they do, and then I can stop posting in kind, and then everything would be better.

 

[Patcheslee]

Just quoted a June 2020 stay at CBR same week/length/tickets ect. at $830 more than our 2019 stay, and we didn't have any discounts available then either. A small increase is one thing, but that's a big increase for 3 ppl, can't picture what increases a larger family would see. DH has already suggested we skip a few years.