Guy climbs out of Space Mountain car during ride

DisneyScott

New Member
I’m very glad everyone is safe.

This isn’t the first time people have negotiated their way out of Disneyland’s Space Mountain restraints. It’s apparently happened several times over the years, mostly along the 2nd lift hill.

I am a bit concerned that nobody opperating the ride realized a passenger had managed to maneuver out of his restraints, until other passengers brought it to their attention.

I realize nobody really knows what happened ... but the amount of individuals who were in the queue who claim hearing “my friend jumped out” seems pretty damning.

I’d imagine Disney could be under fire for slow response time. Modification to the restraints may be necessary.

If the restraints allow for a person to “Will their way out” , there’s serious issues with that! Especially in a the case like this. Individuals with mental disabilities or even small impulsive (and scared) children could attempt to “escape” not fully understanding the consequences.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
You may be right. Complicating things a bit, Disneyland’s Space Mountain is famously prone to cascades. Loading guests fast enough to keep up with the ride circulation is challenging even with the simple lap bars. If seat belts are introduced, they would almost certainly need to rethink the entire load area. I would almost suggest punching a hole in the side of the mountain and extending the re-entry tunnel and return to unload stretches, increasing the parking spots available post-ride. Then it might be realistic to re-implement the tandem, one-behind-the-other load zones which the ride had before 2005, dispatching rocket trains two at a time (with one holding at the dispatch area to even out the intervals, similar to Pirates).

I like it! Sounds like the TL redo might have to be push up so funding can be allocated for this project.... ;):p:cool:
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
If the restraints allow for a person to “Will their way out” , there’s serious issues with that! Especially in a the case like this. Individuals with mental disabilities or even small impulsive (and scared) children could attempt to “escape” not fully understanding the consequences.

This brings up an interesting dilemma.

Disneyland has multiple rides without restraints- Splash Mountain, Pirates, Small World are a few- each of which someone could get seriously injured for getting out of the vehicle.

I always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the lap bar on Space Mountain or any ride was there to prevent you from flying out of the ride on a hill or bump. Space Mountain's have done that just fine since this iteration of the ride opened in '05.

So the question is- are restraints there to prevent someone from hurting themselves by preventing them from forcing themselves out of the ride vehicle at all costs? Or are they there as a safety precaution to keep willing passengers safe during the ride.

I'd argue that it's not up to Disney to design a ride vehicle that's 100% impossible to intentionally wiggle out of.

It's Disney's responsibility to design a ride system that keeps passengers safe from any hazard the ride my have- not to keep the passenger safe from themselves.

If a child or a person with mental disabilities poses a risk to themselves from riding the ride, it's up to their respective guardians to not allow them on the ride. In the case of small children, the guardian should be monitoring them during the experience to ensure they aren't doing anything stupid.

In this specific case, this person's friends should have been monitoring him if his mental condition prevents him from watching out for himself.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
This brings up an interesting dilemma.

Disneyland has multiple rides without restraints- Splash Mountain, Pirates, Small World are a few- each of which someone could get seriously injured for getting out of the vehicle.

I always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the lap bar on Space Mountain or any ride was there to prevent you from flying out of the ride on a hill or bump. Space Mountain's have done that just fine since this iteration of the ride opened in '05.

So the question is- are restraints there to prevent someone from hurting themselves by preventing them from forcing themselves out of the ride vehicle at all costs? Or are they there as a safety precaution to keep willing passengers safe during the ride.

I'd argue that it's not up to Disney to design a ride vehicle that's 100% impossible to intentionally wiggle out of.

It's Disney's responsibility to design a ride system that keeps passengers safe from any hazard the ride my have- not to keep the passenger safe from themselves.

If a child or a person with mental disabilities poses a risk to themselves from riding the ride, it's up to their respective guardians to not allow them on the ride. In the case of small children, the guardian should be monitoring them during the experience to ensure they aren't doing anything stupid.

In this specific case, this person's friends should have been monitoring him if his mental condition prevents him from watching out for himself.

Yup that was getting at earlier. How come one of his didn’t friends notice? Or how come nobody was sitting next to him?
 
Last edited:

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
This brings up an interesting dilemma.

Disneyland has multiple rides without restraints- Splash Mountain, Pirates, Small World are a few- each of which someone could get seriously injured for getting out of the vehicle.

I always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the lap bar on Space Mountain or any ride was there to prevent you from flying out of the ride on a hill or bump. Space Mountain's have done that just fine since this iteration of the ride opened in '05.

So the question is- are restraints there to prevent someone from hurting themselves by preventing them from forcing themselves out of the ride vehicle at all costs? Or are they there as a safety precaution to keep willing passengers safe during the ride.

I'd argue that it's not up to Disney to design a ride vehicle that's 100% impossible to intentionally wiggle out of.

It's Disney's responsibility to design a ride system that keeps passengers safe from any hazard the ride my have- not to keep the passenger safe from themselves.

If a child or a person with mental disabilities poses a risk to themselves from riding the ride, it's up to their respective guardians to not allow them on the ride. In the case of small children, the guardian should be monitoring them during the experience to ensure they aren't doing anything stupid.

In this specific case, this person's friends should have been monitoring him if his mental condition prevents him from watching out for himself.

OK, why do the Doom Buggies have a bar that comes down? Of course, to keep you from getting out mid-ride.

The Fantasyland Rides and Pooh, Roger Rabbit....

Roller Coaster restraints are designed to match the specific ride, and what it does. For example, Gadget Go Coaster use the G forces and gravity to keep you in, and the lap bar is there to keep you in a seated position. In reality, Space Mountain is the same basic design.

Lets go to Knott's and its newest, HangTime. It has a seatbelt and then a leg/lap restraint, which is another common type. I like to freak people out, and I totally relax go up the 90 degree lift hill. This cause my head to move 6 inches or more above the head restraints. In reality, the seat belt keeps me from going anywhere. But during the ride, the lap bar is the main restraint, with the seatbelt as a secondary safety measure.

As for Splash Mountain, the State requires a CM to sit at the bottom of the large lift hill to insure that guests remains in the log.

Pirates is designed to have safety zones for mid-ride unloading, this is where the boat gets close to the edge of the flume. These zones have sensors on the platform, and camera monitors.

Captain EO used a moving platform where all the seating was. A group of CM's job was to insure everyone was seated and away from the edge. Then during the ride, if they noticed someone leaving their seat, an emergency stop happened, and everything came to a halt.

In reality, many Thrill Rides are designed to look a lot more dangerous than the safe rides they are. One is a roller coaster whose initial drop goes into an underground tunnel. You swear the tunnel isn't tall enough to go through without your head hitting the ceiling. But there is plenty of head (and raised hands) room. A long time ago, during a Matterhorn refurb, you could see the large wooden cutout that was placed on a train and then hand rolled on the tracks to verify there was enough space, and if any rock work had to be removed.

In this case, the state will detiremine if Disney could have done anything to prevent this outcome from happening, or if this was an extraordinary event where the guests did something you couldn't expect to happen. And since none of us have all the facts, who knows?

In fact, the State inspectors won't have them either. They will read all the reports from the guests and CM's, review all videos available. Inspect the vehicle to discover any type of flaw/mechanical failure, and try to recreate what happened. So just like Instant Replay in Football, You get the Call Confirmed or Overturned where they can make a true decision. But you have a third outcome, the call stands. In this case, they couldn't make a firm decision based on the evidence they have. That might happen here.

But in this case, The State will default not to the original call made by the refs, but will default to safety. So the state might order modifications to the attraction, or maybe to CM procedures (such as placing a CM at the safety platform to insure this doesn't happen again, maybe just more cameras and a sensor pad placed on the platform.

A lot of modifications were made to Big Thunder after its tragic accident as required by the state. In fact, a State rule (and became a national standard) is now to run a train empty at least once a full cycle before allowing guests to board. I was surprised to find out that Disney wasn't doing it, as it was required by other parks. But since maintenance is performed based on ride cycles, money is saved the less times a train is run. Quite a few things I reported on were safety issues that CM's felt needed attention back in prior administrations. So yes, I was given very detailed information about the issues, which I then had to turn into slightly vague articles that put pressure on management to make the changes due to public pressure. And trust me, it made me a Hero to some, and a Devil to others. I got word about what was being said about me in the Banana Building, and from some Fan sites and Disney Spinners, Ironically, one of my fans most of the time was the head of the DLR PR department. He knew the value of using media, and the emerging Social Media, and what I was doing behind his back. So long as it was done to force actions that nobody inside the park could make happen, and was truly an attempt to make things better, well, let the outsider do it.

Sometime in February, my new role will be unveiled, something very visible, and something I have avoided. But sooner or later, you need to move from behind the scenes to being in the spotlight. I sat down with my lovely wife Lisa, a person who has been on the ride from early on, tonight to discuss the fact I wanted her permission to accept the opportunity, one that will have her be by my side at many public events. So it had to be a joint decision.

Sorry I went off track at the end, but my cryptic words are meant for the long termers here.

Need to head to bed, night all.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
OK, why do the Doom Buggies have a bar that comes down? Of course, to keep you from getting out mid-ride.

The Fantasyland Rides and Pooh, Roger Rabbit....

Roller Coaster restraints are designed to match the specific ride, and what it does. For example, Gadget Go Coaster use the G forces and gravity to keep you in, and the lap bar is there to keep you in a seated position. In reality, Space Mountain is the same basic design.

Lets go to Knott's and its newest, HangTime. It has a seatbelt and then a leg/lap restraint, which is another common type. I like to freak people out, and I totally relax go up the 90 degree lift hill. This cause my head to move 6 inches or more above the head restraints. In reality, the seat belt keeps me from going anywhere. But during the ride, the lap bar is the main restraint, with the seatbelt as a secondary safety measure.

As for Splash Mountain, the State requires a CM to sit at the bottom of the large lift hill to insure that guests remains in the log.

Pirates is designed to have safety zones for mid-ride unloading, this is where the boat gets close to the edge of the flume. These zones have sensors on the platform, and camera monitors.

Captain EO used a moving platform where all the seating was. A group of CM's job was to insure everyone was seated and away from the edge. Then during the ride, if they noticed someone leaving their seat, an emergency stop happened, and everything came to a halt.

In reality, many Thrill Rides are designed to look a lot more dangerous than the safe rides they are. One is a roller coaster whose initial drop goes into an underground tunnel. You swear the tunnel isn't tall enough to go through without your head hitting the ceiling. But there is plenty of head (and raised hands) room. A long time ago, during a Matterhorn refurb, you could see the large wooden cutout that was placed on a train and then hand rolled on the tracks to verify there was enough space, and if any rock work had to be removed.

In this case, the state will detiremine if Disney could have done anything to prevent this outcome from happening, or if this was an extraordinary event where the guests did something you couldn't expect to happen. And since none of us have all the facts, who knows?

In fact, the State inspectors won't have them either. They will read all the reports from the guests and CM's, review all videos available. Inspect the vehicle to discover any type of flaw/mechanical failure, and try to recreate what happened. So just like Instant Replay in Football, You get the Call Confirmed or Overturned where they can make a true decision. But you have a third outcome, the call stands. In this case, they couldn't make a firm decision based on the evidence they have. That might happen here.

But in this case, The State will default not to the original call made by the refs, but will default to safety. So the state might order modifications to the attraction, or maybe to CM procedures (such as placing a CM at the safety platform to insure this doesn't happen again, maybe just more cameras and a sensor pad placed on the platform.

A lot of modifications were made to Big Thunder after its tragic accident as required by the state. In fact, a State rule (and became a national standard) is now to run a train empty at least once a full cycle before allowing guests to board. I was surprised to find out that Disney wasn't doing it, as it was required by other parks. But since maintenance is performed based on ride cycles, money is saved the less times a train is run. Quite a few things I reported on were safety issues that CM's felt needed attention back in prior administrations. So yes, I was given very detailed information about the issues, which I then had to turn into slightly vague articles that put pressure on management to make the changes due to public pressure. And trust me, it made me a Hero to some, and a Devil to others. I got word about what was being said about me in the Banana Building, and from some Fan sites and Disney Spinners, Ironically, one of my fans most of the time was the head of the DLR PR department. He knew the value of using media, and the emerging Social Media, and what I was doing behind his back. So long as it was done to force actions that nobody inside the park could make happen, and was truly an attempt to make things better, well, let the outsider do it.

Sometime in February, my new role will be unveiled, something very visible, and something I have avoided. But sooner or later, you need to move from behind the scenes to being in the spotlight. I sat down with my lovely wife Lisa, a person who has been on the ride from early on, tonight to discuss the fact I wanted her permission to accept the opportunity, one that will have her be by my side at many public events. So it had to be a joint decision.

Sorry I went off track at the end, but my cryptic words are meant for the long termers here.

Need to head to bed, night all.

As they say, the devils in the details. So it’ll be interesting what the inspectors come up with.

Can wait to hear about all the details of your new role. I’m sure you’ll be great at it no matter what it is.
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
After everything had been resolved on Tuesday, one of my bothan spies talked to someone who was on the response team. Here's a quick overview of what they were told:
  • The passenger got uncomfortable and wanted to get off the ride, so he managed to climb out of the restraint
  • He was a larger fellow, so it's not like he just slipped out from under the lap bar (though being larger, the lap bar wouldn't have been lowered as far, which may have aided him)
  • He exited the vehicle after the top of the final lift hill, in the short moment before the cars pick up speed, and wound up on one of the catwalks
  • The ride operators did not know he had exited the vehicle until his friends returned to the station and told the CMs (as already mentioned in the thread), who then E-stopped the ride to locate him
  • There were no injuries
  • The initial investigation immediately following the event indicated that the CMs followed proper procedures and there had not been an equipment failure
  • It was determined to be one of those crazy one-in-a-billion events that you just can't reasonably plan for. The attraction was expected to reopen Wednesday morning with no modifications. It's unclear why the opening was delayed
Based on this, it sounds like everybody is being pretty level-headed in their response, despite the shocking nature of what happened. They recognize that it was a set of extenuating circumstances, which they had prepared for as well as could realistically be expected in an operating theme park. That said, they also realize how lucky they are that there were no injuries, since this could have easily ended very poorly.
 

DisneyScott

New Member
Wasn't Space Mountain designed by Vekoma? I believe Veokoma also designed the ride vehicles. I'm curious at what point liability and obligation for modifications falls back on the Park vs. the manufacturer? If Vekoma designed vehicles that allowed for someone to escape the restraints, is this Disney's total liability?
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Wasn't Space Mountain designed by Vekoma? I believe Veokoma also designed the ride vehicles. I'm curious at what point liability and obligation for modifications falls back on the Park vs. the manufacturer? If Vekoma designed vehicles that allowed for someone to escape the restraints, is this Disney's total liability?
I would assume it depends on the contract. Disney has been known to modify rides beyond what the original builder's specs.
 

PB Watermelon

Well-Known Member
No World of Color, no Paint the Night, no Castle, no DL night parade, no Splash Mountain, no Grizzly River Run, no Fantasmic, now no Space Mountain. Oh, and no QS at the Disneyland Hotel.

I picked the wrong month to make my first (and probably only) trip to DL.

Well, those parades come and go. Everybody's been missing World of Color.

There is a silver lining to this cloud...Superbowl Sunday is the least-attended day at Disneyland. If this was going to happen, good week for it to happen. I'm sure it's going to be back open as soon as OSHA finishes their inspection, which might be sooner rather than later. Instead of listing the things you can't do (everybody misses World of Color), might be a healthier attitude to think of all the things you can.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Well, those parades come and go. Everybody's been missing World of Color.

There is a silver lining to this cloud...Superbowl Sunday is the least-attended day at Disneyland. If this was going to happen, good week for it to happen. I'm sure it's going to be back open as soon as OSHA finishes their inspection, which might be sooner rather than later. Instead of listing the things you can't do (everybody misses World of Color), might be a healthier attitude to think of all the things you can.

Sorry, but that is totally false. Super Bowl Sunday is about the same as any other Sunday in the off-season.

The slowest day of the year, last time I checked was a Tuesday in early September, mainly due to the fact schools have just started, and none are having short days, teacher instruction days, etc.
 

PB Watermelon

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but that is totally false. Super Bowl Sunday is about the same as any other Sunday in the off-season.

The slowest day of the year, last time I checked was a Tuesday in early September, mainly due to the fact schools have just started, and none are having short days, teacher instruction days, etc.

According to the Unofficial Guide to Disneyland, they pegged it as one of the least attended days of the year, annually. Which also explains why so many attractions and venues go down for refurbishment after New Year's and before Easter/Spring Break. .

"Totally false!" Jeez, people, calm down. I swear, some people take to board discourse like they're so desperate for the endorphin rush of correcting someone, if it came down to it, they'd nitpick with God.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
My only goal was to prevent folks showing up on Sunday and finding decent to large crowds.


>Is Super Bowl Sunday really the least crowded day of the year at Disneyland?

Far from it. We’ve been tracking crowds at the Disneyland Resort for years now and can safely say that the Disneyland isn’t crowded on Super Bowl Sunday theory simply isn’t true.

In fact, Disneyland tends to be busier on Super Bowl Sunday than a normal Sunday that time of the year.<<

I have been to Disneyland multiple times on Super Bowl Sunday, and agree with the statement above.

But since Space Mountain has reopened, that should help deal with the crowds.

Or you can always go to Charlie Brown Day at Knott's and dress like Charlie!
 

DrAlice

Well-Known Member
  • He exited the vehicle after the top of the final lift hill, in the short moment before the cars pick up speed, and wound up on one of the catwalks
  • The ride operators did not know he had exited the vehicle until his friends returned to the station and told the CMs (as already mentioned in the thread), who then E-stopped the ride to locate him

On the first point, I have to just say: Holy cats! He's so lucky he wasn't hurt!!! This could've gone HORRIBLY wrong for all involved.
The second point disturbs me greatly. At such a dangerous point in the ride, why didn't someone catch this on a camera? Is there a camera there? Alternatively, why isn't there some sort of alarm or something to detect someone has exited the vehicle and wandering around the catwalks? And where was he in the time it took for the rocket to cycle through? Wandering around the ride?! Crazy!

Again, I'm so thankful that no one was hurt.
 

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