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News Guest dies, found unresponsive after riding Stardust Racers

Fido Chuckwagon

Well-Known Member
The Sandi Streets vs Universal case has been settled and closed.
Lot of smoke here now. This ride has been open for 5 months and we already have:

1. A death;
2. A head injury that led to a lawsuit that Universal settled. According to Street’s lawsuit (which, again, Universal settled), “On the ride, her head shook violently and slammed into her seat’s headrest, giving her permanent injuries”.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Lot of smoke here now. This ride has been open for 5 months and we already have:

1. A death;
2. A head injury that led to a lawsuit that Universal settled. According to Street’s lawsuit (which, again, Universal settled), “On the ride, her head shook violently and slammed into her seat’s headrest, giving her permanent injuries”.
I wouldn't read much into the second case... its akin to the kind of suits that get thrown around all the time and just get paid out. The 'permanent injuries' could just be them claiming hearing impairment, dizziness or something incredibly hand wavy.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Nothing much to say except for what has already been discussed.

-No restraint system should ever allow you to get blunt force or concussed by itself, even if you pass out or have varying abilities of neck control. Part of the job of the restraint and why they test them with lifeless inanimate dummies with many sensors.

-The ride can be operating as designed, while having oversights in the design, that are with risk very rare, but still far more than they should be.

-Universal is taking some of the culpability due to partnership with Mack rides, but this partnership is certainly tainted and MACK is going to redesign and try to make it right.

-expect comfort collars or alterations of some sort to be present and testing by November.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Original Poster
2. A head injury that led to a lawsuit that Universal settled. According to Street’s lawsuit (which, again, Universal settled), “On the ride, her head shook violently and slammed into her seat’s headrest, giving her permanent injuries”.

Cases like this aren’t rare - they’re routine. Not just against Universal, but also Disney, SeaWorld, and pretty much every other park operator... and many businesses. It’s part of our litigious culture.

If you really want to scream, look at how many slip-and-fall lawsuits get filed without any specifics - literally just a fillable form from the attorney - and still end up getting quietly settled.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Nothing much to say except for what has already been discussed.

-No restraint system should ever allow you to get blunt force or concussed by itself, even if you pass out or have varying abilities of neck control. Part of the job of the restraint and why they test them with lifeless inanimate dummies with many sensors.

-The ride can be operating as designed, while having oversights in the design, that are with risk very rare, but still far more than they should be.

-Universal is taking some of the culpability due to partnership with Mack rides, but this partnership is certainly tainted and MACK is going to redesign and try to make it right.

-expect comfort collars or alterations of some sort to be present and testing by November.
You can either choose to have your entire body in traction for the duration of the ride or for months after.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
collars and leashes for everyone? :)

Just for clarification, the term is comfort collar/Vest/collar when it is not a primary part of the safety restraint but a secondary/redundant, comfort situation. it will be built into the seat much like the Soft underlining on a B&M flyers and a more sturdy built in version of the comfort collars on some Premier coasters. Not that this one is the guranteed alteration, but likely.

It will still be more freeing and ideally more comfortable than a hard harness like B&Ms, Vekomas etc... of old.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Nothing much to say except for what has already been discussed.

-No restraint system should ever allow you to get blunt force or concussed by itself, even if you pass out or have varying abilities of neck control. Part of the job of the restraint and why they test them with lifeless inanimate dummies with many sensors.

-The ride can be operating as designed, while having oversights in the design, that are with risk very rare, but still far more than they should be.

-Universal is taking some of the culpability due to partnership with Mack rides, but this partnership is certainly tainted and MACK is going to redesign and try to make it right.

-expect comfort collars or alterations of some sort to be present and testing by November.

This is, I'm willing to bet, not the first guest to have passed out, at least temporarily, on Stardust Racers, and certainly not the first guest to have passed out while in this style seat and restraint system on Mack's other coasters. You excluded the part about the guest being a paraplegic with an existing spinal condition, the second of which means that under the stated ride restrictions, he shouldn't have ridden. Both of which potentially caused his body to ragdoll harder than a normal body would.

Saying "it needs a comfort collar" is a knee-jerk reaction without really considering how muddy this gets when we consider the sheer number of roller coasters that also throw guests around and have only a lap bar. What about every wooden coaster that's been operating for decades with just a buzzbar? Nothing on those would prevent a very limp body from smacking the metal or seatbacks in front of them, either. What about Velocicoaster? What about every RMC?
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Universal settled with the lady who sued them saying her head was shook and Stardust exacerbated her pre existing condition! So now we know, all the warnings and all the fine print on your entry ticket does not mean a thing.

So Universal is willing to pay people to go away as the least expensive option.

I suspect Universal will take this route with Kevin's family.

The logical side of my brain says after this is settled, they will reopen Stardust and move on.

The emotional side of my brain says they will either modify Stardust to include shoulder restraints or tear it down.
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
This is, I'm willing to bet, not the first guest to have passed out, at least temporarily, on Stardust Racers, and certainly not the first guest to have passed out while in this style seat and restraint system on Mack's other coasters. You excluded the part about the guest being a paraplegic with an existing spinal condition, the second of which means that under the stated ride restrictions, he shouldn't have ridden. Both of which potentially caused his body to ragdoll harder than a normal body would.

Saying "it needs a comfort collar" is a knee-jerk reaction without really considering how muddy this gets when we consider the sheer number of roller coasters that also throw guests around and have only a lap bar. What about every wooden coaster that's been operating for decades with just a buzzbar? Nothing on those would prevent a very limp body from smacking the metal or seatbacks in front of them, either. What about Velocicoaster? What about every RMC?

You are coming after me for delivering what is going on.

Most buzzbar rollercoasters you are mentioning are not at major parks. What is acceptable at smaller regional parks is much different, and never had an incident, does not mean could not happen. Often times there area indeed deaths of buzz bar incidents. Look them up. They are there. Often pre internet reporting and non on the scale of something as EPIC Universe opening. There is a reason those have become more rare and let's not kid ourselves that The Phoenix at Knoebles, a great coaster is not the same as whipping laterals or sudden shifts as Stardust Racers or Velocicoaster. Intimin is also a terrible comparison as previously, Intimin has had deaths with body types(not just the missing limb incident either) and an executive company made a terrible excuse that some such incidents will be acceptable due to America's ADA. Disgusting.
The cause of death was listed as blunt force trauma, and that is what it is going off as investigation continues to show that the ride did not malfunction, yet blunt force trauma was the cause.

You may see it as a knee-jerk reaction. But alterations are going to be done to this regardless to ensure there is a much less likely chance of it ever happening again, as just one time, is going to not only be terrible PR, but unacceptable.

If this was even close to "The rider should not have ridden" situation or a natural cause, the medical examainer's expertise would be questioned and investigation would have a better answer.
Human bodies are a huge spectrum of fit and health where generally, the restraint system should not allow anyone to ragdoll. All unconscious people ragdoll.

Thus why Stardust is still closed and will be. Also why the Peacock special was delayed again out of taste and changes and avoiding anything incriminating(not likely, but nothing is taken to chance)
While there was no malice and legally, the death is deemed an accident, there is some oversight culpability here.
Changes are coming. You don't have to like it. But it is the right thing to do.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
You excluded the part about the guest being a paraplegic with an existing spinal condition, the second of which means that under the stated ride restrictions, he shouldn't have ridden. Both of which potentially caused his body to ragdoll harder than a normal body would.
Woah.. a lot of over reach there.

1 - "he shouldn't have ridden"?? That's not UNIs position so far.. so not sure where you got that. He couldn't use his legs, the ride ops clearly knew that too. Neither side is claiming he shouldn't have been able to ride so far.
2 - 'both of which potentially caused his body to ragdoll harder...' -- is what many of us are speculating, but it's not really hard fact yet either.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Changes are coming. You don't have to like it. But it is the right thing to do.
An innocent girl is minding her own business on a bus reading her phone and is KILLED FROM BEHIND by a crazy person who was arrested 14 times prior and sadly life goes on and folks keep riding buses because of course, its not the buses fault.

If one person in a million rider dies on a coaster that was functioning normally and all the other folks rode is just fine, this is DIFFERENT. Massive companies like Disney and Universal have MONEY to LOSE in lawsuits when things go wrong for whatever reason!

They will water down the coasters to make them safer to avoid lawsuits.

Slinky Dog is fun coaster. Folks better get used to it.
 
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Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Most buzzbar rollercoasters you are mentioning are not at major parks. What is acceptable at smaller regional parks is much different, and never had an incident, does not mean could not happen.
Six Flags and Cedar Fair parks are major parks and they have plenty of jostling lap bar roller coasters. Not sure why you're trying to pass this off as if its only small parks like Knoebels.

If this was even close to "The rider should not have ridden" situation or a natural cause, the medical examainer's expertise would be questioned and investigation would have a better answer.
Human bodies are a huge spectrum of fit and health where generally, the restraint system should not allow anyone to ragdoll. All unconscious people ragdoll.
Woah.. a lot of over reach there.

1 - "he shouldn't have ridden"?? That's not UNIs position so far.. so not sure where you got that. He couldn't use his legs, the ride ops clearly knew that too. Neither side is claiming he shouldn't have been able to ride so far.
2 - 'both of which potentially caused his body to ragdoll harder...' -- is what many of us are speculating, but it's not really hard fact yet either.

He had a pre-existing spinal condition which he did not disclose. Spinal condition = back condition = on the list of restrictions for conditions that are clearly stated as "should not ride".

Note: I am not saying that the ride operators did anything wrong, and anyway the state inspection also confirmed that they followed their procedures correctly.

An innocent girl is minding her own business on a bus reading her phone and KILLED FROM BEHIND by a crazy person who was arrested 14 times prior and sadly life goes on and folks keep riding buses because of course, its not the buses fault.

If one person in a million rider dies on a coaster that was functioning normally and all the other folks rode is just fine, this is DIFFERENT. Massive companies like Disney and Universal have MONEY to LOSE in lawsuits when things go wrong for whatever reason!

They will water down the coasters to make them safer to avoid lawsuits.

Slinky Dog is fun coaster. Folks better get used to it.

The fact that no other roller coasters have suspended their operation due to this incident, including other Mack coasters with the same seat and restraint style, should hopefully put your mind at ease.
 
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Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
The fact that no other roller coasters have suspended their operation due to this incident, including other Mack coasters with the same seat and restraint style, should hopefully put your mind at ease.
Lets see what happens with Stardust. I never rode Stardust I very much want to. I sincerely hope it reopens even if it is changed in some way.

I never got to ride Mission Space at its max G-forces as Disney slowed it down after it killed two people.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Six Flags and Cedar Fair parks are major parks and they have plenty of jostling lap bar roller coasters. Not sure why you're trying to pass this off as if its only small parks like Knoebels.




He had a pre-existing spinal condition which he did not disclose. Spinal condition = back condition = on the list of restrictions for conditions that are clearly stated as "should not ride".



The fact that no other roller coasters have suspended their operation due to this incident, including other Mack coasters with the same seat and restraint style, should hopefully put your mind at ease.

Cedar Fair Parks/Six Flags are not adding more buzz bar coasters. That specifically is what you said, and I responded to.

Six Flags, as I noted earlier. Not the best example of safety. They have a bad history of restraint issues that caused death even when they were operating properly.

At the end of the day, my point was it is not a 1:1 comparison. This ride death in this instance is likely rare, but not rare enough to not make changes for.

I don't need my mind at ease. There are meetings and plans in action with Mack right now over what to do about this. The relationship with Universal is about to go sour if something is not done, luckily, things are cooperative.

The fact that this coaster is still closed should be very telling you. Even after the investigation from state and company said ride was operating as normal. It means there is an oversight that rarely could cause death with certain body types, and how that will be defined once found is a difficult nuance that ride operators are not going to be able to commonly accommodate. Vests of some kind and or tweaking the seats that have been modified just a couple of months ago is necessary for good faith efforts and to ensure this exact instance won't happen again.

For those who have followed theme parks a long time, know that if this was a design not possibly featuring an oversight versus definitely on the guest and no change needed...would mean this ride would have been opened in 48 hours or less.

Changes coming. At what level not tested and confirmed yet.
 
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JT3000

Well-Known Member
I never got to ride Mission Space at its max G-forces as Disney slowed it down after it killed two people.
I got to ride during cast member previews and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. Want to switch places?

He had a pre-existing spinal condition which he did not disclose. Spinal condition = back condition = on the list of restrictions for conditions that are clearly stated as "should not ride".
Spinal conditions don't give you blunt force trauma. At the very least, you're skipping from point A to point C, as so many are prone to doing with this topic.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Cedar Fair Parks/Six Flags are not adding more buzz bar coasters. That specifically is what you said and I responded to.
Buzz bars were just one example. What do we do now about every single RMC coaster, for instance, if they have to modify the Stardust Racers restraints?

Six Flags, as I noted earlier. Not the best example of safety. They have a bad history of restraint issues that caused death even when they were operating properly.
Yes, Six Flags has had some notable safety failures, but realistically and statistically even they are an overwhelmingly safe operation.

Spinal conditions don't give you blunt force trauma. At the very least, you're skipping from point A to point C, as so many are prone to doing with this topic.
I mean... obviously? We already know, or at least can safely assume based on what information has been released, that his body ragdolling, AKA point B, was what caused point C, the blunt force trauma.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
I got to ride during cast member previews and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. Want to switch places?
YES PLEASE. You make me jealous!

But in the end you will get your way as Disney will eventually destroy the Great and unique Mission Space with some sad trackless, projection based IP themed ride with no story.
 

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