News Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind attraction confirmed for Epcot

[DavidDL]

Hey so, sorry for asking since I don’t feel like scrolling through every page of this thread but where did the half a billion estimate for this attraction come from?

I found a single Bloomberg article titled “Disney’s $500 million dollar coaster underscores deep ties to Florida” and in that article a single line reads “Disney probably spent $500 million on the ride, according to an estimate from Dennis Speigel, an industry consultant.”

The article itself also goes on to state that Disney declined to comment how much it actually cost so.. do we honestly know the budget? There’s always a chance this Dennis fellow is, well, wrong? Just to play devils advocate for a moment. The title of Bloomberg’s article seems a little misleading since they don’t actually know the cost.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Hey so, sorry for asking since I don’t feel like scrolling through every page of this thread but where did the half a billion estimate for this attraction come from?

I found a single Bloomberg article titled “Disney’s $500 million dollar coaster underscores deep ties to Florida” and in that article a single line reads “Disney probably spent $500 million on the ride, according to an estimate from Dennis Speigel, an industry consultant.”

The article itself also goes on to state that Disney declined to comment how much it actually cost so.. do we honestly know the budget? There’s always a chance this Dennis fellow is, well, wrong? Just to play devils advocate for a moment. The title of Bloomberg’s article seems a little misleading since they don’t actually know the cost.

Insiders on these thread have always given estimated (very close) numbers on attraction budgets. Disney never really confirms how much anything costs

 

[DavidDL]

Insiders on these thread have always given estimated (very close) numbers on attraction budgets. Disney never really confirms how much anything costs

Be that as it may, I’m sort of in the same boat as @wdwmagic, where I find it a bit hard to believe. I mean, obviously I could be wrong and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter to me.

But in the current instance I’m just starting to get some serious “my dad works at Nintendo and he told me they’re doing this that and the other” vibes. As far as I can tell, nothing is confirmed outside of one estimate from one person in an article with a misleading headline.

Not that I’m trying to say Disney can do no wrong or that they don’t screw up or are incapable of overspending. Like I said, I could totally buy into it. I just don’t see any sort of concrete confirmation of the numbers being claimed here outside of random folks on a Disney forum (no disrespect, of course!).

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Hey so, sorry for asking since I don’t feel like scrolling through every page of this thread but where did the half a billion estimate for this attraction come from?

I found a single Bloomberg article titled “Disney’s $500 million dollar coaster underscores deep ties to Florida” and in that article a single line reads “Disney probably spent $500 million on the ride, according to an estimate from Dennis Speigel, an industry consultant.”

The article itself also goes on to state that Disney declined to comment how much it actually cost so.. do we honestly know the budget? There’s always a chance this Dennis fellow is, well, wrong? Just to play devils advocate for a moment. The title of Bloomberg’s article seems a little misleading since they don’t actually know the cost.

I went down that rabbit hole a few days ago trying to find the source of the “budget” and it leads (more or less) back to insider marni1971, if you look at his insights on this thread dating back to 2017 he was spot on on type of ride, layout, and many other details long before those details were released to the public though so he has credibility.

I still suspect that’s a bloated internal budget full of accounting gimmicks to offset losses elsewhere but unless we get ahold of the accountants password it’s the best we’re going to get.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Be that as it may, I’m sort of in the same boat as @wdwmagic, where I find it a bit hard to believe. I mean, obviously I could be wrong and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter to me.

But in the current instance I’m just starting to get some serious “my dad works at Nintendo and he told me they’re doing this that and the other” vibes. As far as I can tell, nothing is confirmed outside of one estimate from one person in an article with a misleading headline.

Not that I’m trying to say Disney can do no wrong or that they don’t screw up or are incapable of overspending. Like I said, I could totally buy into it. I just don’t see any sort of concrete confirmation of the numbers being claimed here outside of random folks on a Disney forum (no disrespect, of course!).

@wdwmagic can correct me if I'm wrong, but their post read less as "I don't believe that number is factual" and more like "It's mind boggling that this attraction cost more than Rise of the Resistance, since Rise is by every metric the more ambitious attraction".

 

[DavidDL]

@wdwmagic can correct me if I'm wrong, but their post read less as "I don't believe that number is factual" and more like "It's mind boggling that this attraction cost more than Rise of the Resistance, since Rise is by every metric the more ambitious attraction".

In either case, I’m still in agreement with ‘em, hah! Though I obviously haven’t been on Cosmic Rewind, yet. Rise is an incredible attraction and Rewind looks like a blast, too. But I’d definitely have guessed the former would cost more given the scope of everything included within.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Be that as it may, I’m sort of in the same boat as @wdwmagic, where I find it a bit hard to believe. I mean, obviously I could be wrong and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter to me.

As another user pointed out the number came from Marni1971, who has been a trusted insider on these forums for as long as I've been on (2014) and I'm sure even before then. As that other user said, I believe @wdwmagic was saying that they are blown away that this attraction cost so much, not that the half a billion factor is not accurate.

 

[kalel8145]

Be that as it may, I’m sort of in the same boat as @wdwmagic, where I find it a bit hard to believe. I mean, obviously I could be wrong and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter to me.

But in the current instance I’m just starting to get some serious “my dad works at Nintendo and he told me they’re doing this that and the other” vibes. As far as I can tell, nothing is confirmed outside of one estimate from one person in an article with a misleading headline.

Not that I’m trying to say Disney can do no wrong or that they don’t screw up or are incapable of overspending. Like I said, I could totally buy into it. I just don’t see any sort of concrete confirmation of the numbers being claimed here outside of random folks on a Disney forum (no disrespect, of course!).

Disney would never release one, but it'd be interesting to see a line item budget on this.

 

[wdwmagic]

Be that as it may, I’m sort of in the same boat as @wdwmagic, where I find it a bit hard to believe. I mean, obviously I could be wrong and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter to me.

But in the current instance I’m just starting to get some serious “my dad works at Nintendo and he told me they’re doing this that and the other” vibes. As far as I can tell, nothing is confirmed outside of one estimate from one person in an article with a misleading headline.

Not that I’m trying to say Disney can do no wrong or that they don’t screw up or are incapable of overspending. Like I said, I could totally buy into it. I just don’t see any sort of concrete confirmation of the numbers being claimed here outside of random folks on a Disney forum (no disrespect, of course!).

The $450m estimate is very accurate from what I know. It may have even gone above that.

It isn't that I don't believe the number, its just it is hard to see where all that went in comparison to something like Rise, where its budget seems very obvious.

 

[mysto]

Let's say for the sake of argument that a board member owns a contractor hired to build some piece of a project. In this scenario it's not just overspending, but also a tranfer of profits from the large public entity to a small private one. Greenspan would have called it "moral hazard", he had a way with words.

 

[mightynine]

The $450m estimate is very accurate from what I know. It may have even gone above that.

It isn't that I don't believe the number, its just it is hard to see where all that went in comparison to something like Rise, where its budget seems very obvious.

Hey man, painting a building ain’t cheap!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Let's say for the sake of argument that a board member owns a contractor hired to build some piece of a project. In this scenario it's not just overspending, but also a tranfer of profits from the large public entity to a small private one. Greenspan would have called it "moral hazard", he had a way with words.

What does this hypothetical have to do with anything? We know the contractors hired by Disney and for large projects like this they’re large general contractors such as Whiting-Turner, PCL and Balfour Beatty. We also know many of the subcontractors. Any such conflict would be known.

How Disney sets up their contracts contributes to higher costs but is the result of their internal process and desires. This isn’t an issue of contractor malfeasance.

 

[DavidDL]

The $450m estimate is very accurate from what I know. It may have even gone above that.

It isn't that I don't believe the number, its just it is hard to see where all that went in comparison to something like Rise, where its budget seems very obvious.

Fascinating! -and this thread was started in 2017 (when it was confirmed for the park) so it also took them 5 years to build. Though obviously some of that time construction would have been impacted by COVID, I wonder if that had any affect on the budget as well? Is it possible some contractors or construction teams would have been paid for that downtime in order to retain them for the project? I can imagine they'd be eager to move on to any work they would be able to get given the state of the world but I've got no clue.

I mean, probably not, since this estimate would have been leaked by supposed forum insiders long before COVID hit. It's just so weird to imagine it being the most expensive thing they've ever built. Like you said, where the money went on something like Rise is just way more obvious.

Down the line I'd love someone interviewing Disney about this new attraction to casually toss out a question like, "So where does the money go when building an attraction like this?". A question that's almost encouraging, like the interviewer is so impressed by the attraction that they really want to know more and framed in a way that Disney feels more comfortable answering and lifting the curtain a bit so we knew more.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

The $450m estimate is very accurate from what I know. It may have even gone above that.

It isn't that I don't believe the number, its just it is hard to see where all that went in comparison to something like Rise, where its budget seems very obvious.

Is there any type of exclusivity agreement with Vekoma?

Maybe they paid them a couple hundred million to not sell this type of ride system to others and added it to the Cosmic rewind budget?

I can’t see any other way this came in at $450 million. There’s got to be some external factor driving up the cost because 2 buildings, coaster track, and some neat tech does not equal $450 million.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is there any type of exclusivity agreement with Vekoma?

Maybe they paid them a couple hundred million to not sell this type of ride system to others and added it to the Cosmic rewind budget?

I can’t see any other way this came in at $450 million. There’s got to be some external factor driving up the cost because 2 buildings, coaster track, and some neat tech does not equal $450 million.

Vekoma has already sold the technology to others. Even then, exclusivity for things like the track layout and vehicle bodies does not cost hundreds of millions, it’s a few million.

There is no external factor. It’s all internal. Disney’s costs to develop a project have been escalated wildly during Iger’s tenure. $100 million went from buying them Expedition Everest to the first even lousier version of The Little Mermaid at Disney’s California Adventure to not even Pixar Pier.

 

[celluloid]

Random, possibly stupid thought but I wonder how much attraction cost was delegated to stuff like securing copyrighted music or appearances by the stars of the films? Just a genuine curiosity from me. I know what the Guardians likely made isn’t anywhere near comparison but people like Robert Downey Jr. got an up front payment of $20 million for Endgame.

So with all these recent IP attractions starring celebs, it’s just sort of an interesting shower thought. How many millions were paid to them, how much was paid to secure copyrighted music and how much was dedicated to the initial R and D of developing this new ride system?

All those things considered, I could see the total price to build inflating. Though, as others have said, something like Rise costs less and has celebs in it, too. It would be fascinating to learn where money is spent and how much where, since I imagine things like demolition costs, etc. are part of the overall budget and could vary widely depending on location, what attraction is being torn down/repurposed, etc.

Fun stuff to think about. From videos, would I have guessed it was the most expensive attraction ever made? Probably not. But I haven’t seen it for myself and heck if I know where and how that kind of money gets spent for stuff like this.

Great points. With celebrities they are typically locked into a certain rate or appearance under contract. It sure has an attraction costly, but probably not inflated to the point that each actor is getting paid as much as they would for a feature film.

 

[DavidDL]

Great points. With celebrities they are typically locked into a certain rate or appearance under contract. It sure has an attraction costly, but probably not inflated to the point that each actor is getting paid as much as they would for a feature film.

Yeah, as stated by another member, even if they'd of been paid $20 mil each (they obviously weren't), there'd still be a hefty amount of the supposed leak cost left unaccounted for. Provided the leak/estimate is accurate, I'd still be interested to know how the money was delegated.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Imagine a couple hires you to design and build them a house. There is going to be a balance between how often you meet with them to review things. There’s that sort of just right porridge of meeting frequently enough to get useful feedback and infrequent enough for work to get done.

So this new client is willing to pay a lot and that comes with conditions. They want to meet very frequently but since both the husband and wife work a lot it will rarely be together and they’re not communicating well with each other about the new house. You meet with the husband who wants this, then you meet with the wife who wants something else. That’s going to cost money because you’re wasting time and decisions aren’t being made.

On top of that, the wife’s mother, the matriarch of the family, will be living with them and gets a say. The couple are very deferential to her so whatever she says goes, but she lives in Scottsdale and doesn’t use Zoom. You meet with her infrequently but when you do she makes some big changes and they have to happen.

Their kids are all design majors of various types and they’re doing a bunch of design as well. They don’t know things are actually built, so you have to take what they give you and make it workable. They also keep coming up with new stuff and changing their minds.

This is getting expense, right?

Now you’re actually in construction and this is all still happening. You’re being ordered to move walls you just built. The study was going to have Billy bookcases but it was decided that another ½” in depth would be preferable so you’re having custom bookshelves made, and since they’re custom they might as well be solid mahogany but then, that doesn’t quite have the same look so they get covered in plastic laminate anyway.

This house is going to cost a fortune, right? That’s a Disney house.

 

[donsullivan]

There is one school of thought out there that the extremely high cost of almost everything coming out of Imagineering was one of the drivers for the Lake Nona move. The culture of WDI drives costs to these crazy levels and that has to be brought under control. Culture is one of the hardest things to change in an organization and can often be accelerated by a corporate relocation. Lots of people don’t make the move and you can remake the organization.

 

[gorillaball]

Imagine a couple hires you to design and build them a house. There is going to be a balance between how often you meet with them to review things. There’s that sort of just right porridge of meeting frequently enough to get useful feedback and infrequent enough for work to get done.

So this new client is willing to pay a lot and that comes with conditions. They want to meet very frequently but since both the husband and wife work a lot it will rarely be together and they’re not communicating well with each other about the new house. You meet with the husband who wants this, then you meet with the wife who wants something else. That’s going to cost money because you’re wasting time and decisions aren’t being made.

On top of that, the wife’s mother, the matriarch of the family, will be living with them and gets a say. The couple are very deferential to her so whatever she says goes, but she lives in Scottsdale and doesn’t use Zoom. You meet with her infrequently but when you do she makes some big changes and they have to happen.

Their kids are all design majors of various types and they’re doing a bunch of design as well. They don’t know things are actually built, so you have to take what they give you and make it workable. They also keep coming up with new stuff and changing their minds.

This is getting expense, right?

Now you’re actually in construction and this is all still happening. You’re being ordered to move walls you just built. The study was going to have Billy bookcases but it was decided that another ½” in depth would be preferable so you’re having custom bookshelves made, and since they’re custom they might as well be solid mahogany but then, that doesn’t quite have the same look so they get covered in plastic laminate anyway.

This house is going to cost a fortune, right? That’s a Disney house.

Very good analogy.