News Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind attraction confirmed for Epcot

[yensidtlaw1969]

Random, possibly stupid thought but I wonder how much attraction cost was delegated to stuff like securing copyrighted music or appearances by the stars of the films? Just a genuine curiosity from me. I know what the Guardians likely made isn’t anywhere near comparison but people like Robert Downey Jr. got an up front payment of $20 million for Endgame.

So with all these recent IP attractions starring celebs, it’s just sort of an interesting shower thought. How many millions were paid to them, how much was paid to secure copyrighted music and how much was dedicated to the initial R and D of developing this new ride system?

All those things considered, I could see the total price to build inflating. Though, as others have said, something like Rise costs less and has celebs in it, too. It would be fascinating to learn where money is spent and how much where, since I imagine things like demolition costs, etc. are part of the overall budget and could vary widely depending on location, what attraction is being torn down/repurposed, etc.

Fun stuff to think about. From videos, would I have guessed it was the most expensive attraction ever made? Probably not. But I haven’t seen it for myself and heck if I know where and how that kind of money gets spent for stuff like this.

Consider this - if Chris Pratt, Zoe Saldaña, Dave Bautista, Glenn Close, and Terry Crews were each paid $20 Million for their contributions to the ride (they weren't, of course, but let's pretend), there would still be $350 Million to account for across the rest of the ride. And that would still be a ridiculously enormous sum for what they built.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Hm. It’s definitely an interesting thing to think about! I mean, this is Disney we’re talking about here. Regardless of how one sees them these days, I don’t see them as the type to just go ahead and throw money away on something they don’t have to, especially when they seem to want to cut budgets wherever possible.

So if this really is the most expensive attraction they’ve ever built, then someone higher up had to have been convinced by someone in the chain that it was money that NEEDED to be spent. The only logical conclusion I can draw from that is some kind of miscalculation or paying for errors they didn’t foresee and had to adjust (see my DCA post above) or that there’s truly something, somewhere we just don’t see.

I’d be fascinated to know what’s behind the curtain in this instance.

Disney has been over spending on attractions for years now. This isn’t something new. “Budget cuts” are not reductions in the budget, they’re cuts to keep things within the already ridiculously high budget. Remember, even adjusting for inflation, Pixar Pier cost more than Expedition Everest. This is a company that tore down half of CommuniCore to replace it with a smaller, less functional but way more expensive building and then still proceeded with the demolition to save face even though the expensive new building had been cancelled.

This isn’t the result of errors and omission, or even recent escalation. It’s the continued results of a broken process, a bloated bureaucracy and a culture of indecision and distrust.

 

[DavidDL]

Disney has been over spending on attractions for years now. This isn’t something new. “Budget cuts” are not reductions in the budget, they’re cuts to keep things within the already ridiculously high budget. Remember, even adjusting for inflation, Pixar Pier cost more than Expedition Everest. This is a company that tore down half of CommuniCore to replace it with a smaller, less functional but way more expensive building and then still proceeded with the demolition to save face even though the expensive new building had been cancelled.

This isn’t the result of errors and omission, or even recent escalation. It’s the continued results of a broken process, a bloated bureaucracy and a culture of indecision and distrust.

Ah, interesting. I guess my confusion comes from stories of Imagineers these days pitching ideas, telling the “big wigs” how much it will cost and then said wigs responding with “Sounds good, but do it for half that amount”, which sounds like it’s the norm.

If this is indeed the case, then maybe whoever was selling the concept was able to convince the “buyer” that the the massive budget they were approved for would be money well spent. Initial Guest reaction seems like they were successful on that front.

But if the folks building it truly weren’t optimizing their spending of the massive budget they managed to convince their bosses to approve, then it definitely makes you wonder what could have happened with a more carefully delegated one.

I dunno, maybe someone, somewhere working there gets a kick out of being able to claim that sort of thing. “Look how much we spent, it’s a new record, bask in the glory of this flex, etc.”

Or maybe I just know nothing about the inner workings of theme park finances. It does seem absurd to me that something like Everest could cost less than Pixar Pier, because the pier retheme is one of the absolute worst things they’ve done in recent history, imo. Crazy.

 

[DavidDL]

Or.. or.. *conspiracy theory hat time*.. the more they spend on attractions the more they’re able to “justify” raising prices and creating upcharges across the board?! Hah!

 

[Casper Gutman]

Disney has been over spending on attractions for years now. This isn’t something new. “Budget cuts” are not reductions in the budget, they’re cuts to keep things within the already ridiculously high budget. Remember, even adjusting for inflation, Pixar Pier cost more than Expedition Everest. This is a company that tore down half of CommuniCore to replace it with a smaller, less functional but way more expensive building and then still proceeded with the demolition to save face even though the expensive new building had been cancelled.

This isn’t the result of errors and omission, or even recent escalation. It’s the continued results of a broken process, a bloated bureaucracy and a culture of indecision and distrust.

It’s an interesting comparison to Universal, which has also changed its mind on several projects, but has generally pulled back before irreversible changes were made. Kids Zone was so close to demolition a few years ago that the construction walls were up, but Uni balked and eventually just removed the walls. One suspects that, were this Disney, they would have razed the area and just left it empty for years, walls and all.

 

[DavidDL]

Hey so, sorry for asking since I don’t feel like scrolling through every page of this thread but where did the half a billion estimate for this attraction come from?

I found a single Bloomberg article titled “Disney’s $500 million dollar coaster underscores deep ties to Florida” and in that article a single line reads “Disney probably spent $500 million on the ride, according to an estimate from Dennis Speigel, an industry consultant.”

The article itself also goes on to state that Disney declined to comment how much it actually cost so.. do we honestly know the budget? There’s always a chance this Dennis fellow is, well, wrong? Just to play devils advocate for a moment. The title of Bloomberg’s article seems a little misleading since they don’t actually know the cost.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Hey so, sorry for asking since I don’t feel like scrolling through every page of this thread but where did the half a billion estimate for this attraction come from?

I found a single Bloomberg article titled “Disney’s $500 million dollar coaster underscores deep ties to Florida” and in that article a single line reads “Disney probably spent $500 million on the ride, according to an estimate from Dennis Speigel, an industry consultant.”

The article itself also goes on to state that Disney declined to comment how much it actually cost so.. do we honestly know the budget? There’s always a chance this Dennis fellow is, well, wrong? Just to play devils advocate for a moment. The title of Bloomberg’s article seems a little misleading since they don’t actually know the cost.

Insiders on these thread have always given estimated (very close) numbers on attraction budgets. Disney never really confirms how much anything costs

 

[DavidDL]

Insiders on these thread have always given estimated (very close) numbers on attraction budgets. Disney never really confirms how much anything costs

Be that as it may, I’m sort of in the same boat as @wdwmagic, where I find it a bit hard to believe. I mean, obviously I could be wrong and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter to me.

But in the current instance I’m just starting to get some serious “my dad works at Nintendo and he told me they’re doing this that and the other” vibes. As far as I can tell, nothing is confirmed outside of one estimate from one person in an article with a misleading headline.

Not that I’m trying to say Disney can do no wrong or that they don’t screw up or are incapable of overspending. Like I said, I could totally buy into it. I just don’t see any sort of concrete confirmation of the numbers being claimed here outside of random folks on a Disney forum (no disrespect, of course!).

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Hey so, sorry for asking since I don’t feel like scrolling through every page of this thread but where did the half a billion estimate for this attraction come from?

I found a single Bloomberg article titled “Disney’s $500 million dollar coaster underscores deep ties to Florida” and in that article a single line reads “Disney probably spent $500 million on the ride, according to an estimate from Dennis Speigel, an industry consultant.”

The article itself also goes on to state that Disney declined to comment how much it actually cost so.. do we honestly know the budget? There’s always a chance this Dennis fellow is, well, wrong? Just to play devils advocate for a moment. The title of Bloomberg’s article seems a little misleading since they don’t actually know the cost.

I went down that rabbit hole a few days ago trying to find the source of the “budget” and it leads (more or less) back to insider marni1971, if you look at his insights on this thread dating back to 2017 he was spot on on type of ride, layout, and many other details long before those details were released to the public though so he has credibility.

I still suspect that’s a bloated internal budget full of accounting gimmicks to offset losses elsewhere but unless we get ahold of the accountants password it’s the best we’re going to get.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Be that as it may, I’m sort of in the same boat as @wdwmagic, where I find it a bit hard to believe. I mean, obviously I could be wrong and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter to me.

But in the current instance I’m just starting to get some serious “my dad works at Nintendo and he told me they’re doing this that and the other” vibes. As far as I can tell, nothing is confirmed outside of one estimate from one person in an article with a misleading headline.

Not that I’m trying to say Disney can do no wrong or that they don’t screw up or are incapable of overspending. Like I said, I could totally buy into it. I just don’t see any sort of concrete confirmation of the numbers being claimed here outside of random folks on a Disney forum (no disrespect, of course!).

@wdwmagic can correct me if I'm wrong, but their post read less as "I don't believe that number is factual" and more like "It's mind boggling that this attraction cost more than Rise of the Resistance, since Rise is by every metric the more ambitious attraction".

 

[DavidDL]

@wdwmagic can correct me if I'm wrong, but their post read less as "I don't believe that number is factual" and more like "It's mind boggling that this attraction cost more than Rise of the Resistance, since Rise is by every metric the more ambitious attraction".

In either case, I’m still in agreement with ‘em, hah! Though I obviously haven’t been on Cosmic Rewind, yet. Rise is an incredible attraction and Rewind looks like a blast, too. But I’d definitely have guessed the former would cost more given the scope of everything included within.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Be that as it may, I’m sort of in the same boat as @wdwmagic, where I find it a bit hard to believe. I mean, obviously I could be wrong and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter to me.

As another user pointed out the number came from Marni1971, who has been a trusted insider on these forums for as long as I've been on (2014) and I'm sure even before then. As that other user said, I believe @wdwmagic was saying that they are blown away that this attraction cost so much, not that the half a billion factor is not accurate.

 

[kalel8145]

Be that as it may, I’m sort of in the same boat as @wdwmagic, where I find it a bit hard to believe. I mean, obviously I could be wrong and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter to me.

But in the current instance I’m just starting to get some serious “my dad works at Nintendo and he told me they’re doing this that and the other” vibes. As far as I can tell, nothing is confirmed outside of one estimate from one person in an article with a misleading headline.

Not that I’m trying to say Disney can do no wrong or that they don’t screw up or are incapable of overspending. Like I said, I could totally buy into it. I just don’t see any sort of concrete confirmation of the numbers being claimed here outside of random folks on a Disney forum (no disrespect, of course!).

Disney would never release one, but it'd be interesting to see a line item budget on this.

 

[wdwmagic]

Be that as it may, I’m sort of in the same boat as @wdwmagic, where I find it a bit hard to believe. I mean, obviously I could be wrong and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter to me.

But in the current instance I’m just starting to get some serious “my dad works at Nintendo and he told me they’re doing this that and the other” vibes. As far as I can tell, nothing is confirmed outside of one estimate from one person in an article with a misleading headline.

Not that I’m trying to say Disney can do no wrong or that they don’t screw up or are incapable of overspending. Like I said, I could totally buy into it. I just don’t see any sort of concrete confirmation of the numbers being claimed here outside of random folks on a Disney forum (no disrespect, of course!).

The $450m estimate is very accurate from what I know. It may have even gone above that.

It isn't that I don't believe the number, its just it is hard to see where all that went in comparison to something like Rise, where its budget seems very obvious.

 

[mysto]

Let's say for the sake of argument that a board member owns a contractor hired to build some piece of a project. In this scenario it's not just overspending, but also a tranfer of profits from the large public entity to a small private one. Greenspan would have called it "moral hazard", he had a way with words.

 

[mightynine]

The $450m estimate is very accurate from what I know. It may have even gone above that.

It isn't that I don't believe the number, its just it is hard to see where all that went in comparison to something like Rise, where its budget seems very obvious.

Hey man, painting a building ain’t cheap!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Let's say for the sake of argument that a board member owns a contractor hired to build some piece of a project. In this scenario it's not just overspending, but also a tranfer of profits from the large public entity to a small private one. Greenspan would have called it "moral hazard", he had a way with words.

What does this hypothetical have to do with anything? We know the contractors hired by Disney and for large projects like this they’re large general contractors such as Whiting-Turner, PCL and Balfour Beatty. We also know many of the subcontractors. Any such conflict would be known.

How Disney sets up their contracts contributes to higher costs but is the result of their internal process and desires. This isn’t an issue of contractor malfeasance.

 

[DavidDL]

The $450m estimate is very accurate from what I know. It may have even gone above that.

It isn't that I don't believe the number, its just it is hard to see where all that went in comparison to something like Rise, where its budget seems very obvious.

Fascinating! -and this thread was started in 2017 (when it was confirmed for the park) so it also took them 5 years to build. Though obviously some of that time construction would have been impacted by COVID, I wonder if that had any affect on the budget as well? Is it possible some contractors or construction teams would have been paid for that downtime in order to retain them for the project? I can imagine they'd be eager to move on to any work they would be able to get given the state of the world but I've got no clue.

I mean, probably not, since this estimate would have been leaked by supposed forum insiders long before COVID hit. It's just so weird to imagine it being the most expensive thing they've ever built. Like you said, where the money went on something like Rise is just way more obvious.

Down the line I'd love someone interviewing Disney about this new attraction to casually toss out a question like, "So where does the money go when building an attraction like this?". A question that's almost encouraging, like the interviewer is so impressed by the attraction that they really want to know more and framed in a way that Disney feels more comfortable answering and lifting the curtain a bit so we knew more.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

The $450m estimate is very accurate from what I know. It may have even gone above that.

It isn't that I don't believe the number, its just it is hard to see where all that went in comparison to something like Rise, where its budget seems very obvious.

Is there any type of exclusivity agreement with Vekoma?

Maybe they paid them a couple hundred million to not sell this type of ride system to others and added it to the Cosmic rewind budget?

I can’t see any other way this came in at $450 million. There’s got to be some external factor driving up the cost because 2 buildings, coaster track, and some neat tech does not equal $450 million.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is there any type of exclusivity agreement with Vekoma?

Maybe they paid them a couple hundred million to not sell this type of ride system to others and added it to the Cosmic rewind budget?

I can’t see any other way this came in at $450 million. There’s got to be some external factor driving up the cost because 2 buildings, coaster track, and some neat tech does not equal $450 million.

Vekoma has already sold the technology to others. Even then, exclusivity for things like the track layout and vehicle bodies does not cost hundreds of millions, it’s a few million.

There is no external factor. It’s all internal. Disney’s costs to develop a project have been escalated wildly during Iger’s tenure. $100 million went from buying them Expedition Everest to the first even lousier version of The Little Mermaid at Disney’s California Adventure to not even Pixar Pier.